Why you should not develop apps for Windows 10
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@cartman82 said:
you are stuck with basically deprecated technologies, like .NET, WPF
@stillwater said:TIL.
That's an especially funny thing to say given that universal apps are written in .Net.If .NET is deprecatedzzzzzzzz then all the time I have invested in .NET has gone to shit. I am going to learn Ruby on Rails which is much more awesome and supercool and nice and fun and stuff. I hope that does not get deprecated anytime soon.
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It doesn't go away when you're composing; you can use it again and again and it'll just add to the post you're typing.
I manually copied the three quotes and inceptionized them and it kinda worked I guess ?! . Thanks anyway.
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You can do it that way, but you don't have to put them inside each other.
I manually copied the three quotes
I manually copied the three quotes
I manually copied the three quotes
I just selected some text, hit Quote Reply, and hit Enter a couple of times, and then did that again twice.
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Winforms is deprecated. Presentation Foundation as a desktop app thing is deprecated. Silverlight is deprecated. ASP.NET Webforms is semi-deprecated.
Here's what's not deprecated:
.NET core libraries and the Common Language Runtime
C++ runtime and some parts of the Windows API
Console apps (for IoT, PowerShell, scheduled tasks, other administrative/background stuff)
Windows.NETWindows BlueWindows AzureMicrosoft Azure services.
Presentation Foundation as a Universal app thing.
ASP.NET's new shiny things like MVC, WebAPI, SignalR, OWIN, ...Oh, and don't learn Rails -- the last time I checked, if you wrote something 3 months ago or more, it won't run anymore. And if you do learn Rails, don't use ActiveRecord.
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No, I meant copying your reply to my reply to someone else's reply all nested within each other.
Am i not getting something ?
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Presentation Foundation as a desktop app thing is deprecated.
What do you mean it is deprecated? MS is not gonna support it anymore ? I make my livelihood from this shit. Other folks who work on desktop apps for Windows use WPF a lot. Have not actually seen Metro around these parts.
Oh, and don't learn Rails -- the last time I checked, if you wrote something 3 months ago or more, it won't run anymore. And if you do learn Rails, don't use ActiveRecord.
Lol I was kidding about learning Rails. I don't like Ruby as a language with 32 trillion ways to write a For loop. Also Rails folks are a bunch of pricks and don't wanna be associated with them.
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No, I meant copying your reply to my reply to someone else's reply all nested within each other.
You mean, how to do this?
@TwelveBaud said:
It doesn't go away when you're composing; you can use it again and again and it'll just add to the post you're typing.
I manually copied the three quotes and inceptionized them and it kinda worked I guess ?! . Thanks anyway.
That's tricky, and I kinda guessed. In this case I quoted part of your post, wrote a reply, then clicked the Reply button on a different post, and clicked the Quote All button in the editor. If I wanted to edit some of that quoted text down I could tehn do that.
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Winforms is deprecated.
So? You'll be able to write Winforms or even plain old C apps for a decade, I bet.
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MS is not gonna support it anymore ?
Theoretically, someday, maybe, yes. Except probably not for years.
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Theoretically, someday, maybe, yes. Except probably not for years.
I am counting on a few more years of solid WPF work professionally. At least 3 or 4 years. Otherwise there is no point in investing time and effort in learning the ins and outs of WPF. Might as well start reading up on something else.
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But that would be OK for a corporate LOB app.
Not according to my understanding of the EULA as it pertains to that. I believe the only "legal" way to do it is to join it to a domain and push it out from there. If your method of distribution relies on developer mode on the device, they could be yanked from all machines at any moment. Developer mode is supposed to only be used by developers, as part of the development process.
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What do you mean it is deprecated? MS is not gonna support it anymore ?
You may have noticed that Blend's been taken out back and shot, HW-accelerated WPF over RDP got canned, the Avalon editor for Visual Studio has no new features for non-Metro apps, and the official WPF blog hasn't been regularly updated for over 6 years. (There are some more recent "we're giving you some reliability and performance enhancements" and retrospective posts, but nothing substantive.)Desktop WPF is deprecated. They'll continue to offer bug fixes and some backportage from Metro WPF, but there ain't nothing new going on there.@stillwater said:
Otherwise there is no point in investing time and effort in learning the ins and outs of WPF. Might as well start reading up on something else.
It's deprecated, not gone. It's gonna be around for at least another 5 years. Plus, all* that knowledge transfers directly to/from Universal Apps and Metro WPF. It'll still be useful for as long as Microsoft has the "everything's a fondleslab" brainworms.* Excluding shell interop, hosted Win32 controls, shaders (which are still around, but in Metro come from XNA's corpse rather than WPF's corpse), credentials besides ClaimsPrincipals which you need special permissions to obtain, ...
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come from XNA's corpse rather than WPF's corpse
Man, how I miss XNA. Really wish MS would make an alternative.
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This isn't an iPhone
No, it is Windows Phone
where there App Store is the only way to install third-party software into a (non-hacked) device.
well, it's not the AppStore, it is the Live Store.
Windows users can still download your installer from your own web site or from third-party software sales/distribution sites.
Desktop Windows users can. Mobile Windows users, no, those can't.
But if they don't work, then why should people pretend that they have no other choice?
Because they have no other choice?
I haven't had any problems with Google Play.
Are they reviewing?
No. They say they are doing some kind of malware scan and even that is not blocking the publication.
being more open than Google and Apple
That is two different things. Google is completely open. There are at least 4 alternate stores for Android and side-loading is permitted if you flip one obvious option in settings. Apple is completely closed. AppStore is the only permitted distribution channel for iOS.
My main problem is that it doesn't seem to be able to update apps stored on the SD card.
A specific range of Android (IIRC 4.4, but not sure) has problems regarding installation to SD card. I still have a testing device with 2.2. with so little memory that almost everything is installed on SD card and the store upgrades it just fine. The problems affect all methods of installation (you can move app to SD card and that works fine, but specifying SD card in the install request does not), so they seem to be in the PackageManager, not the store app.
The problem of Android is that Google does not put any pressure on the device manufacturers to provide upgrades to a newer base system for existing devices, so even if the bug is fixed in the next release, you are not very likely to get it. Apple and Microsoft so far are better in this one regard.
However Google does not care and does not have a reason to. Google's interest is for there to be cheap smartphones and they are cheaper if the manufacturers provide less after-market support.
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Humm... I think that Channel9 App did recruit testers this way. (They asked forum members whether they have developer unlocked phone running WP8 and send the package to them for testing)
So it classifies as "technically feasible, but formality/legality otherwise".
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Winform is just simple wrapper around those CreateWindowEx() like APIs, and Microsoft never intend to deprecate in foreseeable future.
They're core of Windows, so unless Microsoft wants to ditch GUI from Windows, it's not going to be deprecate.
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Winform
It's terrible. Eats up window handles, confuses window hierarchy, allows for easy scraping and hijacking. Overall, terrible design.
Controls should have never been a window on a window. But I can see how that makes it easy to not worry about painting controls so much. Paint outside your control dimensions? Who cares.
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Ah. The variable is to do with precisely who is shit within MS.
You are correct. It could be the developers not raising a complaint to management, or it could be management ignoring the complaint.
I hate blame-gaming but I seem to have become very good at it. That's unfortunate. :(
I suppose one could argue that MS management needs to organise a more efficient communication system. One imagines that could go anywhere from simply suggesting a good process to threatening devs who don't use the existing one, depending on what the issue is.
I had a manager whose go-to tactic was always bullying. I once sat in a meeting with him where he threatened to replace our entire team because we were behind schedule according to him or something. This was a guy who idea of 'behind schedule' seemed to depend on what mood he was in. I was old enough to know it was bullshit, but too young to instantly start looking for work elsewhere.
I like tangents, apparently.
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@cheong said:
Winform
It's terrible. Eats up window handles, confuses window hierarchy, allows for easy scraping and hijacking. Overall, terrible design.
Controls should have never been a window on a window. But I can see how that makes it easy to not worry about painting controls so much. Paint outside your control dimensions? Who cares.
That's what you get when you build on top of a technology that's been around since... well, pretty much the dawn of Windows
I like tangerines
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@Shoreline said:
I like tangerines
What makes this funnier to me is that I actually went back to check my own spelling.
In trivia, I don't like tangerines. The reward/effort ratio is too low.
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It's also not a requirement for non-managed devices - with Win10 Mobile the dialog looks essentially the same as for Win10 Desktop.
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Desktop Windows users can. Mobile Windows users, no, those can't.
Yes, you can. Enable Sideloading, just like on Android, and you're done.
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I was talking about the politics
I don't understand what this means. Are we talking like office politics? Why would I care?
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No, I meant copying your reply to my reply to someone else's reply all nested within each other.
Am i not getting something ?
- Don't be on mobile.
- Click the little speech bubble icon in the composer menu (first button on the left)
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Are we talking like office politics?
Interdepartmental.Why would I care?
Curiosity, research, asking random questions for the sake of it, satsumas... take your pick ;)
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Controls should have never been a window on a window.
Yeah, that's why they invented windowless controls in 1996.
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Yes, you can. Enable Sideloading, just like on Android, and you're done.
Yes, I see there is a way to enable and so it, but it seems to be far from "just like Android". From what I understood enabling the options requires editing registry (at least on 8.1, not sure about 10) and there is additional "side loading product key" that seems to have to be purchased. And I am not sure you can just click on an
.appxto install it. In contrast on Android the option is right there in the Settings/Security, clicking the option and then going to the.apkand clicking on it.
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From what I understood enabling the options requires editing registry (at least on 8.1, not sure about 10) and there is additional "side loading product key" that seems to have to be purchased.
No registry editing needed, and you only need to buy a sideloading key if you're enabling sideloading on 8(.1) Pro or RT on a domain.
You can do it for free though by running PowerShell as admin, runningShow-WindowsDeveloperLicenseRegistration, and following the instructions.It is a lot easier in Windows 10 though; it's similar to Android:
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Yes, I see there is a way to enable and so it, but it seems to be far from "just like Android". From what I understood enabling the options requires editing registry (at least on 8.1, not sure about 10) and there is additional "side loading product key" that seems to have to be purchased. And I am not sure you can just click on an
.appxto install it. In contrast on Android the option is right there in the Settings/Security, clicking the option and then going to the.apkand clicking on it.Maybe, just maybe, you should have followed the thread a bit more. I already adressed this. Twice, in fact.
I was not kidding when I said: "Just like Android." Maybe next time, when someone says something like that, do some (re-)searching yourself just in case your knowledge is out of date.
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Humm... I think that Channel9 App did recruit testers this way. (They asked forum members whether they have developer unlocked phone running WP8 and send the package to them for testing)
So it classifies as "technically feasible, but formality/legality otherwise".
Meh. They are still testers, so they should be fine. Although that may or may not be the case depending upon whether or not the EULA contains the terms "broad recruit" or "closely held".
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It is a lot easier in Windows 10 though; it's similar to Android:
Is that screenshot from Windows Phone 10 though? Can anybody confirm that it is indeed allowed there as well?
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Is that screenshot from Windows Phone 10 though? Can anybody confirm that it is indeed allowed there as well?
Hmmmmm, we will have to see if one of the 7 people who use Windows Phone 10 are on the forums.
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Don't know about WinPhone 10 (yet to get the update), but you can do it quite easily on WinPhone 8.1.
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Yes, I already stated: The dialog on Win10 Mobile is the same.
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Hm, sounds like Microsoft got some sense and made the right move here. I am somewhat surprised.
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I mean, this is the whole point of 10. Convergence.
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Well yeah, but this is Microsoft.
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A specific range of Android (IIRC 4.4, but not sure) has problems regarding installation to SD card.
I'm on 5.1.1....
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Oh... I thought this is Halloween
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Yeah, that's why they invented windowless controls in 1996.
ActiveX.... wasn't a fan.
I mean, by itself was a great idea, it just came too late and didn't fix the underlying issues with winforms.
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Whatever slight chance there was for MS to turn the ship around with W8, it seems even less likely for that to happen now.
Has MS perhaps experienced a corporate Ballmer Peak?
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I like that Skype abandoned the "modern" app in favor of the old, legacy desktop app.
Anybody who has used both (or tried to) would have to agree.
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why the fuck even bother building an app store if you are going to half-ass it and make a pile of
?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ntPxdWAWq8
One thousand.
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Developer mode is supposed to only be used by developers, as part of the development process.
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It's not acceptable for the new generations that got used to a unified app store interface.
What, Linux users?
Now, granted, sometimes this is all you get:
But still!
Oh, were we talking about getting apps listed to Google Play? I heard it's fairly easy if you're not doing anything stupid....
Damned extension store apparently can be a pain. Just got a blanket rejection, fuck knows why.
Actually, about to try and fix it up and submit now. Goodbye websockets, hello shitty polling. Sigh.
Urban Dictionary: Fondleslab
