Filling Station: Please Discharge all Static Before Entering
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@abarker said:
So I take it you are opposed to cremation?
Are you accusing me of being one of Missy's minions? I'd rather be a dalek!
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could just be mostly dead. mostly dead is not all dead.
And now I have to deal with two fandoms at once. Good thing I enjoy both …
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qr5n906ac0019u/Screenshot_2015-08-25-19-39-14.png
Now tell me how on earth did this give me a quote notification.
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because nested quotes generate the notifications, even if they fail to bake.
because discourse.
it's been doing that for ages now.
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@RaceProUK said:
back into the car while refuelling, which creates a static charge, then you get a spark and fwoof
Whaaaat? Is that a thing that actually can happen?Very rarely, and it's almost always blamed on a mobile phone rather than an ESD, which is why there are all those Turn Off Your Phone signs stuck around fuel pumps even though mobile phones ignite pumps very never.
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creates a spark inside the of the plastic petrol filler pipe?!
Doesn't have to. Spark just needs to be close enough to the outlet to fire up a bit of stray fuel vapor.
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the US design has something the UK design doesn't: a latch. That means you can let go of the pump, and the fuel will continue to flow.
I occasionally see a working latch on an Australian pump. Most of them are nobbled with little pins.
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What if I half-filled the tank in a petrol car, then stopped, went into the car for something, then went back and grabbed the pump to fill the rest? Why does this magically stop the static electricity from lighting the petrol fumes?
Because typically the only time you get a significant vapor plume from the filler port is when you have liquid fuel flowing in and displacing vapor from the tank. Most pump nozzles have an inbuilt vapor recovery vacuum line that collects most of this*, but they can't catch it all. When you stop the pump, you'll only get ignitable fuel/air mixtures really close to the filler port.
*Liquid fuel blocking the vapor recovery vacuum line is what triggers the tank-full autostop.
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Is this topic getting re-railed?
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I think a more significant risk is people driving away while the fuel line is still connected.
Or cranky cigarette botters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYI4oreLFLM
Don't pull the hose out, kids.
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I simply suggested that the problem exists in both designs of pump handle.
A filler nozzle you need to keep holding onto reduces the risk of ESD-triggered vapor ignition from very low to completely negligible. Since the outcome of vapor ignition is usually terribad, that's a worthwhile reduction to have.
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Should we really design everything to design against bad choices?
When the consequences of a bad choice could extend as far as death or serious injury: yes.
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very low to completely negligible
I would quantify a risk of 1.7E-10 as negligible (in case you missed it, that's the risk in the US where trigger latches are the norm).
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When the consequences of a bad choice could extend as far as death or serious injury: yes.
If it saves even one life! Has it ever taken a life? Probably as many people have died from drinking from the nozzle. We need mouth detection on pumps NOW!
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I will add... if telling people not to smoke while filling exceeds the bar for "things we should point out", then ESD warnings exceed the bar. ESD is far more likely to cause fuel pump a fire than smoking regardless of what your common sense tells you.
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I prefer to not stand out in the weather while fuel is pumping, so I lock the handle and then get back in the car.
Here in Australia, our petrol station forecourts are fitted with a marvelous invention called a "roof".
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Roofs don't block wind or cold.
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When the consequences of a bad choice could extend as far as death or serious injury: yes.
How many people have died or been seriously injured by a static ignited fire at a fuel pump? Everything I can find only indicates the number of fires, and says nothing about serious injuries or deaths from those fires.
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Roofs don't block wind or cold.
And fuck you if there's a strong wind and freezing rain.
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it was still pretty minimal
She at least had a modicum of sense, in that she didn't immediately yank out the nozzle while the fuel was still in full flow. Would have been better off just leaving it in the filler port, though.
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Here in Australia, our petrol station forecourts are fitted with a marvelous invention called a "roof".
What for? It doesn't rain on mars!
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Are they also climate controlled? Do they have snipers posted around them to keep all the animals from slaughtering you when you stop for fuel? Do they sell those gigantic Crocodile Dundee knives there?
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Roofs don't block wind or cold.
At least we are on the same side of an argument for once. ;)
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Of course.
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The snipers are armed with blowpipes and the darts are tipped with blue-ringed octopus venom.
Don't you know anything?
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Ah, that massive cannon kind, probably, that's really loud and you see people using wrong on the side of the street sometimes, while people feel sorry for them and give them money.
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Liar! They don't allow guns where you are, because guns kill people!
NRA: No they don't People Kill People!
Me, you're not wrong, but you must admit that the gun helps, no?
NRA: Guns Don't Kill People! People Kill People!
Me: Yes, yes, but the gun assists in this does it not?
NRA: Guns Don't Kill People! People Kill People!
Me: Yes, but the person without a gun has a much harder time doing this than the person with a gun. Is this not so?
NRA: Guns Don't Kill People! People Kill People!
Me: -sigh-.... I can see this is not going to be a productive debate then. Good day to you, and may it be a boon to you.
NRA: <satisfied>Guns Don't Kill People! People Kill People!</satisfied>
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People don't kill people. Crazy people kill people. And typically they aren't allowed guns.
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Yes, but the person without a gun has a much harder time doing this than the person with a gun. Is this not so?
Your argument might be valid if you honestly can see someone thinking:
"I'm gonna kill that motherfucker!"
-looks around, can't find a gun-
"Nevermind then, I will go be a productive member of society. I have always wanted to mentor troubled youths."
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People don't kill people. Crazy people kill people.
Crazy people are still people.
And typically they aren't allowed guns.
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and that stops them?
Your argument might be valid if you honestly can see someone thinking:
what? my argument of "If person a wants to kill person B and they have a gun they can more easily accomplish this than if person A did not have a gun"?
no that's a perfectly valid argument.
although i do like the narative you put in my mouth there it is funny.
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That looks nothing like a didgeridoo! I'm starting to doubt you are who you say you are.
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and that stops them?
Yes. Just like laws stop people from constructing bombs, stabbing people, and raping people. Laws tend to work for the most part. That's why we have them.
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no that's a perfectly valid argument.
It depends on your definition of "easier". Meh, it might be. That will not be a deterrent though. You can easily kill a human being with a knife, or a baseball bat, or a piece of lumber, or a pillow if you want to smother them. Lack of access to best option is not a deterrent.
although i do like the narative you put in my mouth there it is funny.
Hmmm, look back over what I wrote. I put no words in no mouths.
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That will not be a deterrent though
did i claim it was a deterrent?
no. i did not. i said that access to a gun facilitates that goal. this does not imply that lack of access to the gun deters the goal.
that's basic logic.
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Yes.
okay.....
Laws tend to work for the most part
that's the problem though. when the law doesn't work.
and gun control in the US ....
Second Ammendment to the Constitution of the United States of America
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.Yeah... turns out it's actually pretty easy to get a gun. If the whitemarket isn't working (licensed dealers) there's always person to person sales and even the black market (yes there is one.)
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It depends on your definition of "easier". Meh, it might be. That will not be a deterrent though. You can easily kill a human being with a knife, or a baseball bat, or a piece of lumber, or a pillow if you want to smother them. Lack of access to best option is not a deterrent.
We seem to use cars, mostly. Though not when filling them with gas, so I guess that's still OT.
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Shorter NRA: Kill people! Kill people! Kill people! Kill people! Kill people! Kill people!
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Shorter NRA: Kill people! Kill people! Kill people! Kill people! Kill people! Kill people!
Though I think we can all agree that by getting to them early the pro-abortion folks are much more efficient.
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We seem to use cars, mostly. Though not when filling them with gas
But when we fill cars with gas, they try to kill us, because the United States is a hotbed for static electricity. Over here we are all just upright-walking versions of Blanka.
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Hey, Maciej!
Look at the blank space above!
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I think we can all agree that by getting to them early the pro-abortion folks are much more efficient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQfNzjGjZ0M&t=1m13s
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That looks nothing like a didgeridoo! I'm starting to doubt you are who you say you are.
That is one of the more clever bits of humor I have seen for a while.
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Hey, Maciej!Look at the blank space above!
WHAAA? THAT IS MAGIC! BURN THE WITCH!
Also hey, where's the newline in that quote above? Oh Discourse, Discourse, you never cease to amaze.
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did i claim it was a deterrent?
no. i did not. i said that access to a gun facilitates that goal. this does not imply that lack of access to the gun deters the goal.
that's basic logic.
So what's your point? I ask because so far you don't appear to have one.
accalia: Did you know that killing people is easier with guns?
TDWTF: Everyone knows that.
accalia: But did you also know that.....?That sort of thing.
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that's the problem though. when the law doesn't work.
Aaand, surprise surprise, that's exactly what happens.
Bad guys will get the guns anyway, legally or not, because well shit they're the bad guys. Having to buy a gun on the black market is not a deterrent for someone that would be going away for murder anyway.
You know what's a good deterrent? Another gun in their face.
What a restrictive gun law manages to accomplish is that the people who want a gun for their own protection can't legally own it and become easy targets, and the crooks don't care either way because well, if you're facing 25 to life if they tie the kill to you, that couple of months for illegal gun possession does not really tip the scale...
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