Why are reddit and 4chan actually talking politics and economics according to random WTDWTF users
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I did it because I was passionate.
Exactly: you did it because you wanted to, not because you had to ;)
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Exactly: you did it because you wanted to, not because you had to
It was still about increasing my lifestyle. We just differ in the opinion of where that minimum should be set.
That being said, you are not wrong.
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Bored people posting dumb shit on the internet is not an "ideology on the rise". The best way to keep them from effecting any measurable change is to let them vent all that energy on the net. If you gave ISIS members access to the internet, you'd get rid of them in a week.
I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me
How a simplistic, unworkable, and ultimately stifling conception of social justice took over the American college campus.
These kids will be your leaders / bosses tomorrow.
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@accalia said:
they shouldn't have to work 80+ hours a week in order to earn enough to feed themselves and keep a roof over their head, no.
Then why do people work 80+ hour weeks? I did it for many years, while earning many multiples of what would be considered a living wage.
Umm, the quote answered it. When 40 hours a week is not enough to put a roof over their head, they work 80+ hours.She's not saying "no one should be allowed to work 80+ hours". She's saying "no one should be required to work 80+ hours". Your particular situation is irrelevant because it doesn't apply to her argument.
Personally, I'm ambivalent. It sucks when jobs pay little, but making jobs pay more lowers the supply of jobs. So the people that have a job are better off, at the expense of the people that now have no income at all.
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When you lump together "Burn all men!" with "I think rape is bad"
Well, when you have this big massive interstate sized bridge between the two called "rape culture" it's hard not to lump them together.
For me and you, we know what rape is.
But for some people, rape is taking up more than 1 seat.
And that's where you see, "rape is bad" and you can't tell if it's rape in the common sense definition, or some really odd classification inflation.
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Umm, the quote answered it. When 40 hours a week is not enough to put a roof over their head, they work 80+ hours.
You can live on any amount of money. It is more a matter of how well you wish to live.
Personally, I'm ambivalent. It sucks when jobs pay little, but making jobs pay more lowers the supply of jobs. So the people that have a job are better off, at the expense of the people that now have no income at all.
What is more likely is expedited inflation. The market would end up adjusting to the new wage levels so that the people who have shitty attitudes and shitty skills still live shitty lives. In the short term you would be correct, in the long term it would adjust to the wage levels and we would be back where we are now.
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it's 5 subreddits which had multiple harassment complaints.
But they didn't. /r/FatPeopleHate didn't harass anyone AFAIK, just posted pictures of fat people (not that I ever went to that subreddit) whereas /r/SRS regularly harasses specific people who pop up there.
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/r/FatPeopleHate didn't harass anyone AFAIK
From what I've read, they went on voting brigades to mass downvote and comment on things they perceived to be pro fat on other subreddits.
It all blew up because imgr stopped showing fatpeoplehate on their front page. In retaliation a load of stuff got posted to the default reddit pages
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Then why do people work 80+ hour weeks? I did it for many years, while earning many multiples of what would be considered a living wage. I did it to excel. I did it to get the job done, because I took pride in my work. I did it because I was passionate.
We are entitled to 3 things: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. Nothing says we are guaranteed happiness.
Ever heard of Slab City? A person can easily live there while earning virtually no money at all.
The market works, we really should just leave it alone. When we start instituting a living wage, where do we draw the line? A living wage in the Hollywood Hills is a hell of a lot different than that in the valley. A living wage in Manhattan is a lot different than in New Jersey. The same goes for virtually any location.
Look, the whole idea here is to keep majority of people content, so they would keep up their contract with civilization. Romans did it with bread and games. We do it with minimal wage and entertainment.
If majority of people can make ends meet without minimal wage, then you don't need it. If too many people feel they can't survive with the amount of money they are making, you need to help them out somehow. Free market won't help you when a desperate mob wrecks your fancy palace, take a shit in your golden Jacuzzi and eat all your shrimp from the walk-in refrigerator.
Now, the real question is, can minimal wage help keep that from happening? I don't know. But undying devotion to the free market ideology won't help you make the right decision.
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Posting a topic that says it on the tin, should be ok. As long as you have tools for a user to ignore or hide content from another user, having "offensive" as a reason to block, is dangerous territory.
What if the majority of the users and moderators found [progressive idea] offensive?
I think giving users the option to ignore other users is the best compromise, because I don't know where to draw the line. Do you take the side of the majority? Do you choose to not block anything at all?
Let the users create safe spaces for themselves if their heart faints so easily.
IMO, posting in someone else's thread is harassment, but posting a separate topic shouldn't be. But I'm not sure that even enforcing that is a good idea.
Used to the tech crowd was all against censorship of content, why, now, is social idea censoring considered acceptable.
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Oh noes. Circle the wagons.
(Psst! I hear there's another even huger tech company whose CEO is one of those homosexuals!!!)
Diversity sucks! If their CEO isn't a straight white male with opinions very complementary to mine, well, fuck that company!
This isn't the problem with Ellen Pao. The problem with Ellen Pao is she's an awful person who stomped over people to get where she was and then cried about discrimination even though she was an awful employee. Her husband also ponzi schemed away people's pensions. You get shadowbanned if you say negative things about Pao in a highly viewed thread. I would link to a post with information but I don't have it in front of me.
I don't think anyone cares that the reddit CEO is a woman. People care because the CEO is Ellen Pao, an awful human being.
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Now, the real question is, can minimal wage help keep that from happening?
Demonstrably cannot.
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From what I've read, they went on voting brigades to mass downvote and comment on things they perceived to be pro fat on other subreddits.
That's not what I've heard, but I could be mistaken. It's probably very easy to just say they didn't do that and sway people when people are upset.
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I don't think anyone cares that the reddit CEO is a woman. People care because the CEO is Ellen Pao, an awful human being
These are the problems that happen when you consolidate the majority of internet communication in a few social sites. You give a few people the power to censor billions.
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http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid
These kids will be your leaders / bosses tomorrow.
That kind of discourse isn't even in the radar in my country. So not for another generation, if it ever took hold. Our universities don't give that much power to students, not even the private ones students pay for. Aside from that, my long term goal is to be my own boss. If someone with those sensibilities managed to get ahead of me despite my head-start (since they're still in college), then I would have much bigger issues than having a dumb boss.
Also, your link doesn't support your argument. It only talks about how one teacher has seen student's get teachers fired over hurt feelings. It's quite a leap to say these people will hold on to those sensibilities once they meet the real world.
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Now, the real question is, can minimal wage help keep that from happening? I don't know. But undying devotion to the free market ideology won't help you make the right decision.
Well, the answer is that if they stormed the palaces and wrecked the lives of those who create the jobs, they would be demonstrably worse off in the short and long term.
The question is whether they want to see this or if they would be blind to it.
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Demonstrably cannot.
Fair enough. Then find some other way.
Human civilization is producing so much wealth, there's absolutely no excuse to have homeless hungry people living on streets or to force people to work two jobs to make ends meet. We should have had that shit figured out by now.
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my long term goal is to be my own boss.
As a business owner, I can tell you that such a thing does not exist. You do not become your own boss. In all reality, you go to having 50 bosses. You also have the freedom to tell any one of them to fuck off and only lose 2% of your income for doing so. If you are an employee, doing the same thing would likely cause you to lose 100% of your income. ;)
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Then why do people work 80+ hour weeks?
that's their perogative, my point is that that should not be required to provide food and shelter for oneself. If one chooses to work more than 40 hours a week then more power too them, it's not required to keep living so it's their discretion
A living wage in the Hollywood Hills is a hell of a lot different than that in the valley. A living wage in Manhattan is a lot different than in New Jersey. The same goes for virtually any location.
and yet all these locations need "minimum wage" jobs. Places with good public transport can source those workers from outside of the central metro area, but regardless the wage paid should be a living wage for somewhere withing commutable distance, and ideally withing a commutable distance that excludes the need for a personal vehicle (public transport FTW)
but that's all "should" not "will" or "must" or even "likely".
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there's absolutely no excuse to have homeless hungry people living on streets
I would agree with you there, but as a person who volunteers with homeless shelters I have seen how that is an issue of mental health and very rarely is it caused by income disparity.
force people to work two jobs to make ends meet.
If your skills and attitude are shit, so too shall be your wages.
I spent a decade as a construction superintendent. One of the last jobs I had in that field was at a company where our lowest paying job was ~$18/hour. Roughly $40K/year with overtime. We never were considered to be fully manned. We were always looking for people to hire and never could find enough competent people to fill those jobs.
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Fair enough. Then find some other way.
You can, it's called incentivized employment opportunities, with training.
there's absolutely no excuse to have homeless hungry people living on streets
You always will. There will always be people who are unwilling to participate in a meritocracy. Even if you deny that we have a meritocracy. If a perfect one existed, you'd still have poor people who are unwilling to participate. I'm not going to make a safety net for people who are unwilling to participate. I'm going to make a safety net for people who can't participate. Those that can, I'll support creating more opportunities.
The myth is that wealth is limited and therefore we have to take it from the rich to give to the poor.
force people to work two jobs to make ends meet.
They are forcing themselves to. They passed up opportunities to increase their skill level, or created burdens for themselves that they shouldn't have (no one has the right to have children they can't afford).
In the cases where opportunities weren't available, I support creating opportunities. Otherwise if they have to work themselves out of a hole, so be it.
If you are working two jobs, but you have multiple cell phones, high speed internet, cable, and a car that you paid 20k+ for, I'm don't think we have a responsibility to help those people with their bills.
That's where charity comes in. If people feel so inclined to help people that make really bad decisions, let them do so with their own money.
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That kind of discourse isn't even in the radar in my country. So not for another generation, if it ever took hold. Our universities don't give that much power to students, not even the private ones students pay for. Aside from that, my long term goal is to be my own boss. If someone with those sensibilities managed to get ahead of me despite my head-start (since they're still in college), then I would have much bigger issues than having a dumb boss.
History has shown that cultural "progress" streams from liberal US places, over conservative US places and Europe and then to the 2nd world and beyond. Give it some time.
Also, your link doesn't support your argument. It only talks about how one teacher has seen student's get teachers fired over hurt feelings. It's quite a leap to say these people will hold on to those sensibilities once they meet the real world.
Why wouldn't it? Once ideology takes root, it's difficult to get rid of. You certainly don't lose many other ideologies once you transfer from school to college, to "real world", whatever that was.
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my point is that that should not be required to provide food and shelter for oneself
It absolutely isn't required. The alternative is investing in increasing skill level. That's a personal responsibility.
Do I want to help encourage people to do that, or provide opportunities for people who have none, yes.
Do I want to offset their income level without requiring them to invest in themselves, hell no.
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Well, the answer is that if they stormed the palaces and wrecked the lives of those who create the jobs, they would be demonstrably worse off in the short and long term.
The question is whether they want to see this or if they would be blind to it.
It's not like mob is gonna stop and carefully consider short and long term consequences of their actions. You make enough people desperate and feel like there's no way out, they are gonna do something about it. Even if ultimate consequences are to their detriment.
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The myth is that wealth is limited and therefore we have to take it from the rich to give to the poor.
Apple succeeded when Steve Jobs came back because Steve Jobs said, "Let's stop thinking that for Apple to succeed, Microsoft has to fail."
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It's not like mob is gonna stop and carefully consider short and long term consequences of their actions. You make enough people desperate and feel like there's no way out, they are gonna do something about it. Even if ultimate consequences are to their detriment.
This is why you don't make them, or their supporters, leaders of the nation, or able to create law. Because they'll do something stupid and give the idiots room to destroy.
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History has shown that cultural "progress" streams from liberal US places, over conservative US places and Europe and then to the 2nd world and beyond. Give it some time.
When you limit history to the past hundred years, maybe.Why wouldn't it? Once ideology takes root, it's difficult to get rid of. You certainly don't lose many other ideologies once you transfer from school to college, to "real world", whatever that was.
Few of those people will be hired as bosses right off university. When they get hired they will either learn that you can't get your boss fired because he hurt your feelings, which is the power they hold over adjuncts according to that link, or not last long enough in any single job to build seniority and climb positions.
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get your boss fired because he hurt your feeling
This is the great cultural "progress".
Looks a lot like that cliff I mentioned earlier.
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As someone pointed out: why those subreddits? /r/coons was not banned. The reason seems fairly thin.
From what I heard, it's because /r/fatpeoplehate started specifically targeting the Imgur admins (including mocking them in the sidebar of the sub itself, following Imgur blocking /r/fatpeoplehat pictures from reaching their front page) and the mods were encouraging harassment of them that went beyond the sad, sad little world of that subreddit.But I've heard conflicting information on this.
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that, i did not say. however, i do think that the minimum paying job in an area should be high enough pay to support a single person libing in that area.
I'd like for my kids to be able to get summer / after school jobs. No way they're that valuable to anyone.
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Bored people posting dumb shit on the internet is not an "ideology on the rise". The best way to keep them from effecting any measurable change is to let them vent all that energy on the net. If you gave ISIS members access to the internet, you'd get rid of them in a week.
We've discussed several times around here when the consequences of that affects real life. The net isn't some isolated system that doesn't matter any more.
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and the mods were encouraging harassment of them that went beyond the sad, sad little world of that subreddit.
Then I submit that users/mods should have been banned, not the entire subreddit...
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People care because the CEO is Ellen Pao, an awful human being.
Ah, I'd forgotten that she'd ended up there.
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that's their perogative, my point is that that should not be required to provide food and shelter for oneself. If one chooses to work more than 40 hours a week then more power too them, it's not required to keep living so it's their discretion
This is all very misleading. Some people are genuine idiots / retarded / disabled and simply cannot provide enough value to anyone to support themselves. Others are lazy or don't want to apply themselves. Sometimes the two blend together and it's hard to tell them apart, especially when there's other structural problems (and when aren't there?).
But stupid shit like minimum wages actually hurt some of those people (and others just entering the market) by pricing them out of the labor market. Of course, the minimum wage also drives us to more automation, which increases the productivity of the people running the automation. But it's not necessarily the same skill to do the job before and it also reduces the amount of labor to get that done, so people need to move on to something else. Some people have worked hard their whole lives to avoid the skills required to do that.
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Ellen Pao
Kleiner’s attorneys didn’t have to look very far for evidence of Pao’s horrible personal failings. Emails from 2009 show Pao critcising her assistant for taking time off work to help her landlord, a non-English speaker, who had been in a serious car accident. Pao’s response to the domestic crisis was as follows:
“It’s great that you want to be helpful to your landlord. It would be better for me if you could come to work on time. Let me know if you think differently, but I think your job should be your priority.”
Also...
Her husband, Alphonse Fletcher, is in deep legal and financial trouble too. His asset management firm was declared bankrupt in 2012, and he is currently being sued by three Louisana public pension funds. They allege that Fletcher’s asset management defrauded them of up to $145 million, and are now seeking to recover the funds.
How much was Pao seeking from Kleiner Perkins in damages? Oh. $144 million.
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Fletcher has staged a string of frivolous discrimination lawsuits and currently faces a $144 million lawsuit, and just happens to be married to Ellen Pao, a woman who demanded almost precisely the same sum... in what we now know was also a frivolous discrimination lawsuit.
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You couldn’t, as British newspaper columnists like to say, make stuff this up.
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Honestly looking from the outside of all these SJW crusades i have a hard time telling them apart from a mob of bullies...
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....
Reddit has become too big and is (currently) too unregulated for me to find what might interest me. A lot of the categories are filled, or named by, obscure in-jokes. Going in to any category just greets me with tons of noise.
/r/chess is pretty cool, and pretty much the only reason I spend time there anymore.
i consider it a very bad thing that minimum wage cannot support a person living alone in many municipalities
That's not the bad thing. The bad thing is that there are people other than high-schoolers who can't get a job that pays more than minimum wage. I don't know how to fix that either.
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Does the Pope quack in the woods?
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Only when there's no-one around to hear it.
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I would link to a post with information but I don't have it in front of me.
Riiiiight.
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Then why do people work 80+ hour weeks?
Idiots.
I did it for many years, while earning many multiples of what would be considered a living wage.
Idiot.
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She seems a real class act.
Exactly. I'm glad someone's willing to be blakey's google-monkey.
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I'm glad someone's willing to be blakey's google-monkey.
Only because I'd never heard of her (that I could remember, at least).
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Idiot.
I was an idiot making 6 figures straight out of school.
I was still an idiot, no argument there. At ~20 years old, I measured my success by my bank account, which was admittedly idiotic.
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Human civilization is producing so much wealth, there's absolutely no excuse to have homeless hungry people living on streets or to force people to work two jobs to make ends meet. We should have had that shit figured out by now.
Jesus, we already manufacture more than enough bullets. What do you think is missing? Not enough quicklime?
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I was an idiot making 6 figures straight out of school.
Ok? So you're proud of being an idiot?
I was still an idiot, no argument there. At ~20 years old, I measured my success by my bank account, which was admittedly idiotic.
Or you're not? Or?
Why don't you figure out what message you want to convey here then come back ok?
That said, I basically measure my success by "haven't killed myself yet", so there are worse metrics out there.
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I would agree with you there, but as a person who volunteers with homeless shelters I have seen how that is an issue of mental health and very rarely is it caused by income disparity.
Yeah -- our mental health system sucks, and I speak as someone who has had to interact with it.
