The URL parser is homophobic (+ applications for personal finance (+ warm clothing))
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Yep, I'll totally trade a good, on time, consistent debtor for a shitty one for $35. Can we do that trade tomorrow?
You forgot jacking up their interest rate to 29%.
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Sure, we'll make is $40 for the month for that month's interest and then $5 each month after, also, maybe they never pay their balance off, and we make a loss of $4700 because we were only able to sell the debt to collections for $300
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Yep, I'll totally trade a good, on time, consistent debtor for a shitty one for $35. Can we do that trade tomorrow?
And $29 on a $300 balance is 10% profit in one month.
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Then why do they call people like you a deadbeat? Because they prefer you? Not likely.
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I mean, sure we can play that game $29 on a $15000 balance is +0.1% profit in one month.
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$15K balance, jack the interest rate from 3% to 29% in one month. Still making more money.
Oh, and miss one payment and all your cards can jack the rate to the max, even if you pay them on time...
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Still making more money.
You're implying that that interest will actually get paid again.
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You're assuming your credit card company won't fuck you the first chance they get, you deadbeat. ;-)
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Yeah, I think I'm making a pretty good assumption there. Issuers tend to treat everyone not in default well because they're actually making boatloads of money off them.
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They will fuck you the first chance they get. You are not allowing for risk in your calculations on credit cards. If something unfortunate happens, they will not be understanding and they will fuck you.
I am not going to convince you, and you damned sure are not going to convince me. Just don't expect me to slap you on the back and praise your sophisticated money management skills because you pay off your balance every month and get a percent or two cash back as long as everything works fine. I will continue paying cash and knowing that works best for me and feeling that society would be better off if more people told credit card companies to kick rocks.
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If something unfortunate happens
What exactly would this be? Not paying my bill? Because yeah, I totally deserve to be fucked in that situation. I didn't live up to what I said I'd do. No different from being foreclosed on or having your car repo'ed
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What exactly would this be.
Most people just call it "life". If shit happens, are you going to take cash on hand and immediately pay off your credit cards to reduce your risk or are you going to let that ride and hold on to the cash until things blow over?
Family member or yourself gets sick, death of a household provider, impairment of yourself that reduces or eliminates your ability to earn an income, virtually anything that would fall under catastrophe.
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This is what my E-fund and insurance is for.
are you going to take cash on hand and immediately pay off your credit cards to reduce your risk or are you going to let that ride and hold on to the cash until things blow over
Well, considering that I already have the cash on hand to deal with the purchases I've made and it's not more than ~$1k that in on the statement, cash on hand to pay for but not yet paid at any normal point, it probably won't actually impact me that much, but maybe that's me being naïve
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it's not more than ~$1k that in on the statement but not yet paid at any normal point
So, $12k/year? That is more risk than I would be willing to endure for $240 cash back at the end of the year.
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I'm confused on what risk you're talking about, because I fail to see how the situation is any different if you're using a debit card, other than the fact the money isn't immediately taken out of your bank account and there is a single intermediary step.
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I have already delineated it in rough terms.
I am not going to argue with you anymore. It is not productive. You are convinced, and I will not be swayed.
But don't go thinking that you need a high credit score for any reason. That is naive. It is not necessary for any reason, unless you are trying to borrow money for consumer goods or cars. We just pay cash. It is more efficient, and much lower risk. I take my risks where it will make me money, not cost me money.
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It is not necessary for any reason, unless you are trying to borrow money for consumer goods or cars.
You said it's not necessary for any reason, and then stated two reasons.
And I agree, who cares about your credit score unless you're applying for a loan. It's like saying you're impressed you have a low APR credit card, if that actually matters to you, then you are doing it wrong.
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I think what we can all agree on is fuck Payday loans. I mean, the only good thing you can say about them is it's better than having your kneecaps cracked if you don't pay.
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You said it's not necessary for any reason, and then stated two reasons.
But those two reasons don't matter to me, and shouldn't to anyone else. At least in my worldview.
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Eh, I guess you left out Mortgages too, which aren't really 'goods'
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I think what we can all agree on is fuck Payday loans.
This is the point that if we were having this argument in a pub I would shake your hand and buy us a round and then we would ogle some large-breasted woman.
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Eh, I guess you left out Mortgages too, which aren't really 'goods'
You can absolutely get a mortgage with zero credit score...
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Yeah, but your interest rate will be higher, which will end up costing thousands more in interest...
But let's get back to the large-breasted women...
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Yeah, but your interest rate will be higher, which will end up costing thousands more in interest...
Nope. I got a mortgage at prime interest rate with an incalculable credit score. It just requires manual underwriting.
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You, sir, found an extremely good bank or credit union and I recommend you stick with them.
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Yep. Not all of them will even do it. They just prefer to say $CREDIT_SCORE > $MINIMUM_SCORE = APPROVED.
If you have the income history, the down payment and the bank account, they will give you the mortgage if they are not morons.
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There is no way they prefer for someone to not pay on time. That's like saying you prefer someone not paying off their mortgage.
Mortgage rates are pretty low. About the only way a mortgage lender is going to make a serious return on what they've lent you is if the repayment gets dragged out for as many years as they can persuade you, via lowering minimum monthly repayments, to do.
Interest-only mortgages, where the monthly repayments are not sufficient to make any dent in the amount actually borrowed, are a mortgage lender's paradise.
Of course, if by "not pay on time" you mean "never pay at all", we're in heated agreement. But that's not what most people mean by "not pay on time".
They make money on the interest even if you pay on time.
Given that the standard credit card deal involves charging no interest on any charge that's completely paid off by the first subsequent bill payment, I'd like to know how you figure that.
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Most people just call it "life".
JazzyJosh appears to accept the just-world hypothesis, in which "life" is simply not something that happens to well-informed people.
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I have a credit card that gets me loyalty points, so I use it for as much of my shopping as I can. They have yet to make a penny off me since I always pay in full, on time, but I've made a few quid off them already.
Regardless of whether a credit score might be helpful in negotiating halfway decent mortgage terms in the crazy housing market we have in this country, I win.
As for the 'if something happens' fallacy, I'm spending money I would be spending whether I had a credit card or not; I'm just deferring payment to the end of the month. If some unexpected expense meant I ran out of money one month, and if I had no savings to dip into (which will be the case for a while if/when I buy a house), I would still have run out of money if I was paying cash/debit, but I'm in a better situation being able to charge it to a credit card and carry a balance for a while than if my options are 'starve, don't pay my bills, or get a payday loan at 2000% interest'.
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Given that the standard credit card deal involves charging no interest on any charge that's completely paid off by the first subsequent bill payment, I'd like to know how you figure that.
There are charges on the merchant side.
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The last time I used a credit card was because I had to pay my mechanic in cash and it was more than my daily withdraw limit. I got charged a couple of pounds for the cash withdrawal but paid it all off immediately.
I have rather more credit card debt than I'd like, due to some bad decisions a couple of years ago. I'm now living well within my means and paying off a good chunk each month, which will increase once I'm not saving as much as possible for the whole wedding thing. Once it's paid off, I plan on using it as little as possible.
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There are charges on the merchant side.
I believe he was being pendantic on the exact wording, if you go back and look at it.
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This post is deleted!
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(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)
Damn you. You deleted your post before I could get back to my computer and point out how wrong you are. You killed my ability to be pendantic in response to his pendantry.
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I had to pay my mechanic in cash
Your mechanic will soon be brought up on charges for tax fraud.
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You deleted your post before I could get back to my computer and point out how wrong you are.
I was aiming for before you could read it.
I realised I was, in fact, wrong. However I still think @flabdablet's attempted pedantry was misplaced, and more incorrect than the thing it was attempting to correct.
Edit: no, I wasn't wrong, apparently.
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I was aiming for before you could read it.
I have learned the hard way that deleting a post is no protection at all…
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I have a credit card that gets me loyalty points, so I use it for as much of my shopping as I can. They have yet to make a penny off me since I always pay in full, on time, but I've made a few quid off them already.
This is the kind of crap that they use to get people hooked on credit. In our consumer culture, credit seems akin to a drug to me. I find the credit card companies absolutely despicable. I am not sure how it is in the UK, but here in the US credit card companies will setup tables on college campuses and give the kids a coupon for a free pizza if they fill out an application for a high-interest credit card. And the kids do it, because who doesn't want a free pizza and because of the fallacy of:
As for the 'if something happens' fallacy, I'm spending money I would be spending whether I had a credit card or not; I'm just deferring payment to the end of the month. If some unexpected expense meant I ran out of money one month, and if I had no savings to dip into (which will be the case for a while if/when I buy a house), I would still have run out of money if I was paying cash/debit, but I'm in a better situation being able to charge it to a credit card and carry a balance for a while than if my options are 'starve, don't pay my bills, or get a payday loan at 2000% interest'.
I really could not sum up the mindset better. I am not trying to pick on you, but that is how the thought process starts that leads to people being swamped in credit card debt. As further proof that I am not picking on you, I know this because I used to think the same thing and I ended up in pretty dire financial straits. It happened fast.
Now, part of that is owed to me being an arrogant bastard. I always thought that I could out-earn my own stupidity. I was wrong. YMMV. Other people's mileage may vary. But now that I am much more financially responsible, I still have no desire to go back to playing their games. Maybe I am just doing what @blakeyrat does and not letting myself go back down that particular rabbit hole because I don't trust myself with the ready supply of "free money"? I don't think so though, I just prefer to not dick around with it. When I purchase something, it is mine on day #1. It just feels different. And when I spend money, it hurts in a real and immediate way versus spending money on credit. Those purchases never felt real to me. Like I had not really spent any money.
It may all sound silly, and very much based upon "the feels", but that is a better explanation of it as it pertains to me.
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I still think @flabdablet's attempted pedantry was misplaced, and more incorrect than the thing it was attempting to correct.
He was technically correct.
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My debit card is a Bank of America card with a VISA logo. It has the exact same **fraud protection** as a credit card with a VISA logo,
Are there any meaningful differences between credit and debit cards over there with regards to any sort of protection?
For example, here, anything (even partially) bought on a credit card (within limits) means that the credit card company is jointly and severally liable for any issues with the purchase so instead of having to chase the selling firm directly you can chase the credit card firm instead (leaving them to chase the seller.)
Nothing as strong as that holds for debit card purchases.
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Given that the standard credit card deal involves charging no interest on any charge that's completely paid off by the first subsequent bill payment, I'd like to know how you figure that.
The implication there was someone who paid at least the minimum every month, but not the bill in full.
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Nothing as strong as that holds for debit card purchases.
In the USA, I do believe that depends upon who your debit card agreement is with. For my debit card, my issuer has the exact same protections as you are mentioning (if I understand them correctly).
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I mean, what does $1k realistically change in terms of that situation. $1k is not a lot of money in comparison to, e.g. yearly salary. If something serious happens to me or my family then it's more than likely the case that having or not having $1k wouldn't make a difference, when you consider me having an emergency fund, Roth IRA, and 401(k) that I could pull from if I desperately had to.
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I still think @flabdablet's attempted pedantry was misplaced, and more incorrect than the thing it was attempting to correct.
The point at issue is whether the credit card providers would rather you pay your bills as they come due, or carry a balance on which you will also pay them interest. Only what they earn from you, not what they earn from merchants, has any bearing on that.
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but here in the US credit card companies will setup tables on college campuses and give the kids a coupon for a free pizza if they fill out an application for a high-interest credit card. And the kids do it, because who doesn't want a free pizza and because of the fallacy of:
No they won't. That is specifically outlawed now. You can not solicit for credit card applications on or near a college campus for an incentive.
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No they won't that is specifically outlawed now.
Well, at least our lawmakers have done something right for once. But the point remains, they have done it, and would continue to do so if they were allowed. Because they are total bastards.
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I made a post above, you should read it.
As well, chargebacks are generally a much easier process with credit cards.
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The implication there was someone who paid at least the minimum every month, but not the bill in full.
But that's not the class of credit card user that any of the rest of us have ever been talking about. A "deadbeat", in credit card company internal parlance, is a user who always pays their bill in full as soon as it comes due and doesn't carry a balance into the next billing period.
People who pay only the minimum possible amount every month? They love those customers.
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I made a post above, you should read it.
As well, chargebacks are generally a much easier process with credit cards.
Those are FTC minimums. Visa and Mastercard extend the same protections to debit card users as they do to their credit card customers. There is generally no difference in protection.
http://usa.visa.com/personal/personal-cards/debit-cards/faq.jsp#anchor_19
