Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances
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@asdf said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Oops. Sorry for being particularly dense today, I'm half-asleep ATM.
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@Vixen I still can't believe that in USA they recycle phone numbers.
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@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
I still can't believe that in USA they recycle phone numbers.
It happens here in Australia too.
Apparently the previous owner of my work mobile number has been very lax in updating his contact details, as I keep getting messages insisting I owe an ISP money, reminders for STI checks, as well as calls from some resort club wanting to speak to the previous owner. I was also getting political opinion polling surveys on a weekly basis on it as well until I blocked them out of annoyance.
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@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Vixen I still can't believe that in USA they recycle phone numbers.
There are a limited number to use in any given area. What else are they going to do?
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@Douglasac said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Apparently the previous owner of my work mobile number has been very lax in updating his contact details, as I keep getting messages insisting I owe an ISP money, reminders for STI checks, as well as calls from some resort club wanting to speak to the previous owner. I was also getting political opinion polling surveys on a weekly basis on it as well until I blocked them out of annoyance.
Ugh. The number I previously had before my current one, for years and years I kept getting phone calls wanting to speak to Cynthia. Apparently Cynthia owes money to people -- a lot of people! Repeatedly telling them that this is no longer Cynthia's phone number and I don't know who she is eventually helped stem the tide, but it took years.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Vixen I still can't believe that in USA they recycle phone numbers.
There are a limited number to use in any given area. What else are they going to do?
Use longer numbers, presumably.
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@PleegWat Do you have any idea how much legacy stuff that would break?
That said, not everyone uses the same system. Not everyone even uses fixed-length phone numbers. When I was in Argentina, I found that in small towns, phone numbers were 6 digits, in cities they're 7, and in massive cities like Buenos Aires, they're 8!
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@Mason_Wheeler At least the debt collectors are polite enough to only send text messages which I can easily ignore.
The resort club people, though, were most annoying. Along with the random financial company that was apparently a dodgy lender (which doesn't surprise me based on the other junk I get\got on the phone).
@PleegWat said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Use longer numbers, presumably.
Surely that would break a lot of things that are no doubt programmed under the assumption that a phone number is X digits long and this is a fact that will never ever change.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Vixen I still can't believe that in USA they recycle phone numbers.
There are a limited number to use in any given area. What else are they going to do?
The same thing as last time? Assign more numbers? It can be done - I know it because it was done.
@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@PleegWat Do you have any idea how much legacy stuff that would break?
99.99% of it I wouldn't mind - in fact, I'd be very glad if all those robocallers couldn't reach me. And every institution that legitimately needs my phone number would promptly upgrade out of necessity.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@PleegWat Do you have any idea how much legacy stuff that would break?
That said, not everyone uses the same system. Not everyone even uses fixed-length phone numbers. When I was in Argentina, I found that in small towns, phone numbers were 6 digits, in cities they're 7, and in massive cities like Buenos Aires, they're 8!
We used to have variable-length numbers in NL until they normalized it in the late 90s. Nowadays it's always 10 digits, including a 3 or 4 digit area code which always starts with a 0.
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@Douglasac said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Surely that would break a lot of things that are no doubt programmed under the assumption that a phone number is X digits long and this is a fact that will never ever change.
except of course that assumption was wrong when it was developed, and is even more wrong today to the point that that assumption is a ticking time bomb that will eventually blow up in some poor developers face.....
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@Vixen said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
except of course that assumption was wrong when it was developed, and is even more wrong today to the point that that assumption is a ticking time bomb that will eventually blow up in some poor developers face.....
Well, I'm sure this wouldn't be the first time a developer made an assumption that was totally wrong.
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@Douglasac said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Vixen said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
except of course that assumption was wrong when it was developed, and is even more wrong today to the point that that assumption is a ticking time bomb that will eventually blow up in some poor developers face.....
Well, I'm sure this wouldn't be the first time a developer made an assumption that was totally wrong.
i mean...... -looks at pile of work she created for herself by making an assumption last year that proved wrong from the beginning but she didn't verify before implementing-..... you're not wrong per se.......
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@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Vixen I still can't believe that in USA they recycle phone numbers.
There are a limited number to use in any given area. What else are they going to do?
The same thing as last time? Assign more numbers? It can be done - I know it because it was done.
That's not likely to happen until the number of people who currently have a phone nears the number of available numbers.
In addition to that:
@Douglasac said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@PleegWat said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Use longer numbers, presumably.
Surely that would break a lot of things that are no doubt programmed under the assumption that a phone number is X digits long and this is a fact that will never ever change.
We already have extensions (usually 3- or 4-digit) for reaching individual people/departments in the same business/location, so not only is the assumption already wrong, it's something that's also already being accounted for.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@PleegWat Do you have any idea how much legacy stuff that would break?
That said, not everyone uses the same system. Not everyone even uses fixed-length phone numbers. When I was in Argentina, I found that in small towns, phone numbers were 6 digits, in cities they're 7, and in massive cities like Buenos Aires, they're 8!
Way back when... I tried to write a phone number formatter (because that's what marketing wanted). I was introduced to way more than I ever wanted to know. I think that's when my brain broke.
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@djls45 said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
We already have extensions (usually 3- or 4-digit) for reaching individual people/departments in the same business/location, so not only is the assumption already wrong, it's something that's also already being accounted for.
Well, kind of. The extension isn't really part of the phone number. I've never called any number with an extension where I can enter that was part of the phone number string. It's always <ring><answer>If you know the extension of your party, please enter it now
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@Mason_Wheeler Area code overlays and splits have been a thing in the U.S. for literal decades...
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@Mason_Wheeler I grew up in a town where only one block of 10,000 numbers was available. To call from any number in that town to any other number in that town, you only had to dial five digits. I think that stopped working maybe thirty years ago, once tone dialing became common and more than one company started providing service there.
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You know what's actually shocking?
Not only do telephone numbers get recycled, so do Social Security numbers!
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
You know what's actually shocking?
Not only do telephone numbers get recycled, so do Social Security numbers!
I think Wikipedia's actually right on this one. "The Social Security Administration does not reuse Social Security numbers." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number
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@jinpa Huh. Maybe it's just the
However, there have been instances where multiple individuals have been inadvertently assigned the same Social Security number.
but I'd heard that they actually do get reused on purpose. I guess not.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@jinpa Huh. Maybe it's just the
However, there have been instances where multiple individuals have been inadvertently assigned the same Social Security number.
but I'd heard that they actually do get reused on purpose. I guess not.
When they start closing in on the billion mark for living and dead Americans, I guess they'll either have to do that or, more likely, add more digits.
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@jinpa said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
"The Social Security Administration does not reuse Social Security numbers."
that's going to be fun when they run out of those suckers. they've only got one billion of the things to hand out, and with the world population encroaching on an estimated eight billion... it's not going to take long before they need more numbers than they have....
but hey what else is new? we ran out of IPv4 addresses.... and we're running out of phone numbers (for fixed digit dialing) and we're running out of social security numbers.... and we're running out of fossil fuels (albeit slower than the alarmists have predicted we're still using it faster than it is naturally produced).... and we're running out of time (because entropy)
one thing we're not running out of is stupidity. first person who figures out how to mine that and turn it into power or something equally useful is going to be richer than King Midas, and much happier since they can still jack (or jill) off and not turn their sexy bits into solid gold, unlike Poor Midas.
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@Vixen said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
one thing we're not running out of is stupidity. first person who figures out how to mine that and turn it into
soylent green?
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Goddammit, I thought this was a new thread. Let's see who I miss...
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@locallunatic said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
I'm on ÂŁ32,000.
Buh? After translating that to USD that sounds really low, what all other things do you get from being in the UK that makes up for that.
Yeah, I'm just kinda floating myself. When I get healthy I'll seek to get wealthy...
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@lolwhat said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
I grew up in a town where only one block of 10,000 numbers was available. To call from any number in that town to any other number in that town, you only had to dial five digits.
That'd be 100k numbers with 5 significant digits.
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@Vixen said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
one thing we're not running out of is stupidity. first person who figures out how to mine that and turn it into power or something equally useful is going to be richer than King Midas, and much happier since they can still jack (or jill) off and not turn their sexy bits into solid gold, unlike Poor Midas.
The cryptocurrency thread is
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@locallunatic said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
I'm on ÂŁ32,000.
Buh? After translating that to USD that sounds really low, what all other things do you get from being in the UK that makes up for that.
Yeah, I'm just kinda floating myself. When I get healthy I'll seek to get wealthy...
It all depends not just on what your gross income is, but also on what your mandatory expenditures (taxes, pension, accommodation, healthcare, commuting, basic food) are. In many ways, it's better to look at the amount of spare money people have available for saving and discretionary spending and compare that.
And yes, it's possible for that figure to be negative. Bad, but possible…
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@dcon said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Mason_Wheeler said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@PleegWat Do you have any idea how much legacy stuff that would break?
That said, not everyone uses the same system. Not everyone even uses fixed-length phone numbers. When I was in Argentina, I found that in small towns, phone numbers were 6 digits, in cities they're 7, and in massive cities like Buenos Aires, they're 8!
Way back when... I tried to write a phone number formatter (because that's what marketing wanted). I was introduced to way more than I ever wanted to know. I think that's when my brain broke.
Do you still have it in the form of a RegEx? Asking for an alt...
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@dkf said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@lolwhat said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
I grew up in a town where only one block of 10,000 numbers was available. To call from any number in that town to any other number in that town, you only had to dial five digits.
That'd be 100k numbers with 5 significant digits.
Well, since this is the U.S., you could/can dial numbers in other close-by towns (including the nearest city) for no extra cost. It also was (and still is) an area where you don't have to dial ten digits for every local call - just seven. And don't forget that telephones with actual dials on them were still a thing then, so dialing as few digits as possible was very much desired. To be able to dial four digits for in-town and seven digits for not-in-town-but-local, a fifth digit (I don't recall which) was tacked onto the front of the in-town digits to differentiate.
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@algorythmics said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
13:58: Phone call from London number I let go to voicemail
13:59: Email:
"I called earlier today, ... exciting job opportunity... excellent salary ... up to ÂŁ30,000""Excellent Salary ... up to ÂŁ30,000"
"Excellent ... ÂŁ30,000"
Considering I am on what I would consider a middling salary for a mid level developer in this area I fancy laughing in this guys face, but his face isn't here, and I am not going to write him an email just to say "I earn more than this already and intend to fight for a salary bump in the next 3 months" I decided to laugh at him here.
This thread exists to bitch about recruiters sending you emails over a year after you removed your details from the internet and job boards and the like, with jobs that are irrelevant and/or ridiculous. Ranging from "ÂŁ16,000 salary, 2 years experience minimum in each of C#, Java, C, Python and SQL Server DBA" to "Fantastic local opportunity 600 miles away!" to anything else recruiters spout.
30k pounds/year is a mountain of money for a senior dev here in bumfuckistan, even at 2020
(The company would spend 60k to pay this with our taxes, because bumfuckistan)
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@dkf said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
it's possible for that figure to be negative. Bad, but possible…
Not so much in TX, but in Silly Valley, yeah, it's very possible.
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I got this email today. (I'm not anonymizing, because name-and-shame.) Do you notice anything missing?
If you noticed there's not even a hint of what sort of job he's recruiting for, have a cookie.
The email subject line does have a job title: AVM Architect. What's that?
I thought the email might tell me (although the fact that I don't already know strongly hints that I'm probably not qualified, even I was interested, which I'm not). After reading the recruiter's job pitch, such as it is, I remain as uninformed as I was before reading it.And I'm certainly not going to give a recruiter that much information about me if he isn't even going to tell me about the job he's recruiting for. I get more than enough useless recruiter spam; I don't need to encourage more. Oh, and it's not even slightly personal; it's sent to a BCC list.
(For anyone interested in what an AVM architect is, DuckDuckGo tells me it's apparently somebody who works at one of several companies called AVM and designs buildings, or a company that makes software for people who design buildings, or something called the Arbitrum Virtual Machine, which is a derivative of the Ethereum Virtual Machine. Yet another reason to walk away from this idiot and never look back.)
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Over the last year, I’ve had several emails from the same recruitment agency that always follow the same pattern: a relatively new business working in an exciting field are expanding rapidly and want to hire a load of developers at all levels from junior to architect/team lead. The pay bands for each level are significantly more than you’d normally get and the benefits are also very generous, usually including private medical, pension contributions around 10%, bonuses, stock options and several thousand pounds working from home allowance to set up a home office.
I responded to the first few with my CV and details about the level I’d be interested in, and never heard anything back even after chasing them up later. I’m now thinking it’s some sort of CV harvesting scheme, although I don’t really get what they’d get out of it
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Goddammit, I thought this was a new thread.
Ditto.
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@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Goddammit, I thought this was a new thread.
Ditto.
Me too. But on the other hand, I'd like to hear if ÂŁ30,000 is still considered "acceptable" salary. In UK, that is. I am pretty sure it would be very nice in Romania.
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@Kamil-Podlesak said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@GÄ…ska said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Goddammit, I thought this was a new thread.
Ditto.
Me too. But on the other hand, I'd like to hear if ÂŁ30,000 is still considered "acceptable" salary. In UK, that is. I am pretty sure it would be very nice in Romania.
My brother is looking for entry level development jobs and £30k is around the ballpark he’s going for. The tax personal allowance has risen since this thread started so you’d get a bit more take home pay from it than you did back then.
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@Jaloopa said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
I’m now thinking it’s some sort of CV harvesting scheme, although I don’t really get what they’d get out of it
...CVs?
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@Zecc CV = resume.
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@Arantor Yes, from Curriculum Vitae.
I was answering @Jaloopa's question of what they are getting out of it.
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@Zecc but what’s the benefit of having a load of CVS? If they have jobs they’re trying to place people in, send details of those rather than these honey traps, and if they don’t what’s the benefit?
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A stash of CVs is sellable as a recruiter asset - it’s a list of people that they can shop around and occasionally go “are you looking for a new job” without having to work too hard at getting people in the door.
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@Jaloopa
It's salable personal data.Maybe they're just harvesting email addresses or SSN or whatever.
Maybe they are just the initial spam phase of future spear phishing. That is of course the worst case scenario.It's entirely possible, assuming they are an actual recruitment agency, that they are simply incompetent and can't handle all the CVs coming in.
Or maybe @Jaloopa's CV is just not that good.
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@Zecc said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
Maybe they're just harvesting email addresses or SSN or whatever.
Or identity theft. Asking for full name, DOB, visa status, location, etc. They don't actually ask for SSN, but they as for name in a way — Full Name (AS per Passport/SSN) — that some clueless people might include it. But even just name and DOB is sufficient in some contexts.
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@HardwareGeek said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
The email subject line does have a job title: AVM Architect. What's that?
I got another email from the same guy, but this time with the job title UVM Architect. I know what that is, and it's actually relevant to me. (UVM is a test framework for making sure (software models of) chips do what they're supposed to do before they're made into actual chips.) And the email contains a job description.
However, the job description doesn't quite match the job title in the email subject:
(I think you missed your target.)
UVM architect has no connection at all with application security, SAST, DAST, threat modeling, DevOps, or DevSecOps. AWS might, conceivably, maybe be relevant if you're running your chip simulations in the cloud, but I've never seen a chip company do that; the detailed info of the chip implementation is too proprietary and too confidential to trust the cloud. Just repeating the words "UVM Architect" a bunch of times doesn't convince me you're actually trying to hire a UVM architect when your job description is rubbish.
Also, I have experience with UVM, but not enough to be an architect, so even if this recruiter really was trying to hire one, and had a proper job description, and I was actively looking for a job, I probably wouldn't respond, because the likelihood of getting hired is negligible.
Surprisingly, the advertised pay rate is fairly reasonable. The upper end matches what I'm currently getting, although I'd expect somebody with the responsibilities of an architect, rather than merely implementation, to get a little more.
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@Jaloopa said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
a relatively new business working in an exciting field with highly disruptive technology are expanding rapidly and want to hire a load of developers at all levels from junior to architect/team lead
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@Arantor said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Zecc CV = resume.
Oh, not Cheval Vapeur?
Like the famous 2CV
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@BernieTheBernie said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Arantor said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Zecc CV = resume.
Oh, not Cheval Vapeur?
Like the famous 2CV
The car that can be reconfigured to a motorcycle in a pinch.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Arantor said in Recruiters and Recruitment WTFs and annoyances:
@Zecc CV = resume.
Oh, not Cheval Vapeur?
Like the famous 2CV
The one you showed is obviously a 2CV. So if you just want a "CV", it's gonna be this one:
It's actually a "TPV 2CV", for "Très Petite Voiture" (=very small car), which was a pre-war prototype of the 2CV. I think it was pushing the "minimalist" spirit a bit too far...
