Lessons in EOL
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Wasn't 2000 a server release that some people started using as a desktop OS for some reason?
Also, this arguing about which versions count is why the every-other-release-is-shit meme doesn't really work. Some people claimed XP was the shit version after 2000, some claim 8.1 is the good version after 8.0 etc.
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some claim 8.1 is the good version after 8.0 etc.
8.1 is miles better than 8.
but it's still a market place failure.
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huh... so it was a client OS too.
TIL.
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@Intercourse said:
Oh, I have to find the hidden option to not use their shitty login system?
The one hidden after you've clicked the "Create an Account" option - yeah, took me a while to find that. The first time I just signed in with an account and then removed it later.
To use OneDrive it irritatingly wants you to sign into the whole computer with the Microsoft account, rather than just OneDrive, so despite getting 1TB of OneDrive storage with Office365 (which doesn't make me sign in to a Microsoft account) I'm not using it.
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Were older NT versions used as client OSes as well? 2000 was released a few months before ME, so the upgrade path presumably wasn't meant to be 98-2000-ME-XP
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Actually, no. In my experience, any box that will run XP will run 7 as well or better. 7 is a considerable improvement over Vista in that regard.
My experience supports my thesis. I had a Pentium 4 with a gig of RAM--a marginal machine for XP, to be blunt--and it ran worse when I put 7 on it.
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It is absolutely Windows ME 2012
There was nothing wrong with Me that couldn't be cured by getting rid of the shovelware that came bundled with PCs. I had an HP with Me that ran like shit. I reinstalled Windows from a retail CD, and it ran perfectly. Every single problem I had went away.
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There was nothing wrong with Me that couldn't be cured by getting rid of the shovelware that came bundled with PCs. I had an HP with Me that ran like shit. I reinstalled Windows from a retail CD, and it ran perfectly. Every single problem I had went away.
My anecdote contradicts yours: freshly installed ME BSOD'd on me after 3 minutes of uptime. I wasn't even doing anything funky at that moment, just exploring the Start Menu.
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wasn't 2k a server OS? i only listed Desktop OS there and was pretty sure 2k was a server OS.
"Windows 2000 Professional" was the client edition.
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Were older NT versions used as client OSes as well?
No. 2000 was the first to have a common code base between them.
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considering that 7 (except Pro) has technically passed retail end of sales and it doesn't ship OEM any more
Post you replied to edited to clarify; thank you.
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so it was a client OS too
But it was intended for professional use, not for home users.
Home users were expected to go from 98 to Me then to XP Home.
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My anecdote contradicts yours: freshly installed ME BSOD'd on me after 3 minutes of uptime. I wasn't even doing anything funky at that moment, just exploring the Start Menu.
I dunno what to tell you. I used that thing for months, and it was full of instability. HTTPS simply didn't work at all. So I reinstalled from CD--not the recovery one--and got rid of all the shovelware, and it ran perfectly.
Plus I was in the beta so I had a long run of that, and during that, other than obvious beta problems, it ran fine as well.
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So I reinstalled from CD--not the recovery one--and got rid of all the shovelware
this is the first step i take with ANY windows computer that i buy, ever.
shovelware can positively go and do one..
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I dunno what to tell you. I used that thing for months, and it was full of instability. HTTPS simply didn't work at all. So I reinstalled from CD--not the recovery one--and got rid of all the shovelware, and it ran perfectly.
Plus I was in the beta so I had a long run of that, and during that, other than obvious beta problems, it ran fine as well.
FWIW, I have second hand anecdotes confirming yours: other people having no1 stability problems with ME. Other other people I know had experiences similar to mine.
My buttumption was that at installation time, the setup program used a PRNG to calculate a stability factor, which ME used to determine how often it should crash. If you were lucky, you'd get a value close to "rock stable". If not, well, you'd get what I suffered through.
1 modulo the usual stability problems with pre-NT Windows versions (badly written drivers, badly written applications, ...).
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Are you suggesting this is an actual ME screenshot?
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@Intercourse said:
Either I am trying to access Control Panel or something else through that stupid side bar thing and I have to hold my mouse cursor in one very specific spot on the joint between monitors, or I am just trying to park my cursor out of the way and the stupid sidebar thing pops up.
Or tap the Windows key and type "contro-Enter" exactly like you did in Windows 7 (I hope.)
@Intercourse said:
There is no compelling reason for me to switch to 8.1. 7 does everything that I need it to and there is not a single feature that I need from 8.1. The only thing I might want would be Storage Spaces, but I take care of all of the heavy storage on the server-side. I really see no cause to upgrade. 8.1 is like Discodevelopment, fiddling just to fiddling and nothing but UI changes that no one asked for.
I bet it really pissed you off when they stopped delivering big blocks of ice door-to-door.
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Or tap the Windows key and type "contro-Enter" exactly like you did in Windows 7 (I hope.)
In 7, I hit the Windows key or click the start button and click the control panel entry on the right
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Are you suggesting this is an actual ME screenshot?
Only if the guy who made that WM theme had a crystal ball so he could look into the future at the Aero window decorations ;)
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Compared to what's in 7, The Network and Sharing Center in 8.x is dumbed down to the point of uselessness.
How?
Note that in my brain the words "dumbed down" equate to, "I don't like it but I have absolutely no rational reason backing that opinion up."
Connecting to wireless networks fails in inscrutable ways.
How? ... also how is this Windows 8's fault?
Libraries seem to have gone away.
That's just plain wrong. Have you actually used Windows 8? At all?
8.x seems to find many more ways for persistent boot failures to occur than 7 did and the associated diagnostic "aids" are about as desirable as actual AIDS.
Why don't you fix your computer?
There is nothing in 8.x that works better enough than 7 to make any rational person choose 8.x if given 7 as an alternative option.
Windows 8.1 will put a taskbar at the bottom of every monitor.
It is absolutely Windows ME 2012 and once 10 reaches RTM, 8.x will be swept under the carpet of Windows history every bit as quickly.
Yeah; but grumpy idiots like you (the kind who use the term "dumbed down") say this about every Windows version. When Windows 10 does come, you'll be bitching about it and raving about how great Windows 8 was. I've seen this cycle happen a billion times before, you ain't fooling me.
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That's not shoehorning; more like overinflation. Keyboard + mouse + buttons + wheel is a much more capable set of controls than a touch screen.
Well it's too bad Windows 8 computers hold a gun to your forehead and if you don't use the touchscreen shoot you in the face.
Or! How about! ... if you don't like touchscreens just don't use them!? REVOLUTIONARY!
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given that that's Aero window stylings, no that's windows 7, or possibly vista.
though there's a version of that screenshot in the 9x/ME window styling that could be genuine.
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In 7, I hit the Windows key or click the start button and click the control panel entry on the right
Well his complaint was fucking idiotic anyway because you never want to see "the control panel", you want to see "mouse settings" or "add/remove software", and any modern Windows can go directly there in one step.
So the answer to his complaint was also stupid: here's how you do a task you only want to do in the first place because you're a grumpy codger who can't get over how Windows 95 worked.
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Or tap the Windows key and type "contro-Enter" exactly like you did in Windows 7 (I hope.)
Or even right-click on the Start button and choose "Control Panel" from the popup menu.
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TMTOWTDI. I usually open up control panel and search from within that.
His complaint is still silly since there are lots of ways to easily get to the control panel
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@Intercourse said:
As though it is condescending to the user
And the really infuriating thing about this particular kind of condescension is that it is so completely ungrounded in actual superiority.
I don't much mind being condescended to by UI designers who have actually built a better thing, but very nearly every UI "innovation" that's happened on the desktop since iOS first appeared seems to have been perpetrated by dedicated followers of fashion with nothing to offer but a prejudice in favour of change for its own sake.
Moving my cheese is one thing. Taking it away completely and replacing it with Skittles is quite another.
I loathe Skittles.
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When Windows 10 does come, you'll be bitching about it and raving about how great Windows 8 was. I've seen this cycle happen a billion times before, you ain't fooling me.
That is entertaining when it happens.
I've been trying out the Win 10 preview. I've actually gotten used to the start screen and am disappointed in the return of the menu. Oh look, All Programs now has all 100 preinstalled Windows apps/applets, so I have to scroll through through two and a half menus worth of stuff, of which I will probably only ever click about 3 icons. (I just counted.) Also, there's now PC Settings and zPC Settings, which are the same thing, and which are NOT Control Panel.
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TMTOWTDI. I usually open up control panel and search from within that.
Right; I'm just saying if you don't do it the dumb stupid slow moron way, Windows 8 works just as well as Windows 7. There's no regression. Except for dumb stupid slow morons.
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And, as usual, everybody who uses a computer differently from you is a dumb stupid slow moron and actual usability can go take a hike.
You'd have a better chance of being funny if you weren't so reliably monotonous.
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When Windows 10 does come, you'll be bitching about it and raving about how great Windows 8 was.
Unlikely.
I played with Vista long enough to recognize it as a half-baked source of trouble, and kept installing XP on school computers until the year the new ones started arriving with 7; ran a mixture for a year, then cut them all over to 7. I expect that the same pattern will occur with 7, 8.x and 10.
On my personal boxes I run Xfce on Debian just so I don't need to care what the fashionistas are doing to everything else this year.
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On my personal boxes I run Xfce on Debian just so I don't need to care what the fashionistas are doing to everything else this year
i run xubuntu (or Ubuntu Server) on everything i don't game on. for pretty much the same reason
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And, as usual, everybody who uses a computer differently from you is a dumb stupid slow moron and actual usability can go take a hike.
You're not asking for usability, you're asking for stagnation. That's different.
At some point you're going to have to turn on that brain of yours and grow some new neuron connections. You might find life more pleasant if you spend a few hours learning how the new stuff works rather than spending years bitching that it's not the same as the old stuff.
You'd have a better chance of being funny if you weren't so reliably monotonous.
Undoubtedly true.
I played with Vista long enough to recognize it as a half-baked source of trouble,
Except it wasn't. Nothing was wrong with Vista. So... you're wrong.
On my personal boxes I run Xfce on Debian just so I don't need to care what the fashionistas are doing to everything else this year.
WHAT A SHOCKER! The geezer who hates change using Linux!!!!! My mind is blown.
Look, if you never, ever want to learn anything new ever-- fine! Don't! But don't subject other people to your idiotic wrong desires.
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I switched from Ubuntu to Debian because I like Debian Testing's rolling release model a lot better than I like being forced into lockstep with Ubuntu's update cycle. Also, after the Lucid "fuck you and all your muscle memory" window controls debacle I lost confidence in Shuttleworth's technical judgment. Debian's already-insane pseudo-democracy seemed a bit less likely to go barking mad without warning.
Still got blindsided by GNOME 3 though.
Tried MATE, but found Xfce adequate before MATE really got its kinks ironed out.
If Xfce starts making serious moves toward GTK3 I'll probably have a serious look at LXQT; main objection to LXDE up until now has been that I just didn't like the look and feel of it, but I think Qt will probably have addressed most of that.
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Also, after the Lucid "fuck you and all your muscle memory" window controls debacle I lost confidence
that was about when i switched to xubuntu to get XFCE. the new gnome can FOAD as can Unity.
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How? Other than the stupid Start screen thing (which can easily be made to go away thanks to Classic Shell) they're not really that different. Not in a way that becomes a pain.
I have enough trying to extension around firefox's modern ui, I'm not sure I want to do the same for Windows.
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@created_just_to_disl said:
I have enough trying to extension around firefox's modern ui
The best way to deal with that is to install a different browser.
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Am I the only one around here who likes both GNOME 3 and Windows 8.1*?
*On my Surface Pro. I'd never use it on a desktop computer.
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The best way to deal with that is to install a different browser.
Chrome has more or less the same modern UI (especially the parts I hate most about firefox's), except it can't be worked around via extensions. Other browsers are unpopular and - I dunno - maybe I'll try one of them some time. (Especially if firefox does another dedesign)
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Am I the only one around here who likes both GNOME 3 and Windows 8.1*?
Mind what you say... blakey's mind is too narrow to survive being blown twice in one night.
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Mind what you say... blakey's mind is too narrow to survive being blown twice in one night.
is that an argument for saying more things like that or less?
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Probably - I don't really like GNOME 3.
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But it was intended for professional use, not for home users.Home users were expected to go from 98 to Me then to XP Home.
Fair enough. I think from a business perspective and used Win2K for quite some time. I even used it at home as I never cared for 98 or 98SE.
I bet it really pissed you off when they stopped delivering big blocks of ice door-to-door.
Yes, and it is so hard to find a good blacksmith these days...
It is not the same thing. Win7 looks and feels modern by all accounts. It is only ~6 years old. It does everything I want or need it to. There are no features of 8/8.1 that give me any reason to switch. Not a single one. Server 2012 and 2012R2 have a lot of nice features for sysadmins, but the desktop has nothing that I want or need.
Also, using keyboard shortcuts is all well and good, but it depends on what you are doing at the time. If I am currently using the mouse, it is quicker and easier to get there by just navigating that way, which can be rather frequent. If I am entering text, then yes it is easier and faster to just hit the Windows key and start typing what I need. Depending upon the terms I enter and what I am searching for, it still might just be easier to click on it when it pops up versus navigating with arrows, etc. It is all about what is quickest, at the time, for me.
The stupid hover in the corners for UI is also annoying for another reason: When I start to type, I frequently just bump my mouse over to get it out of the way. I pay no real attention to where it goes, as I just want the cursor somewhere else. I usually just navigate with Tab, etc. Now with the shitty 8/8.1 UI, frequently when I do that the stupid fucking sidebar pops out, then I have to move my mouse again. Fuck the shitty Metro UI. It sucks and you think that people should adopt it just because MS wants us to and because it is the latest and greatest. It may be the latest, but it is a turd that no reasonable person wants on a desktop. On a Surface it works well, but my desktop and laptops are not touch screen and I don't want them to be. Touch screens suck for actually getting work done.
You and Jeff have to be brothers. You constantly bitch about him, yet you do the exact same fucking things. Always telling people they are doing it wrong and that your way is obviously superior and that you know what is best. You are exactly like him.
Going back to your ice analogy, I rather like the icemaker built in to my refrigerator. What I have no desire for is a touch screen interface on it.
http://www1.pcmag.com/media/images/363394-samsung-rf28hmelbsr-screen.jpg
You would obviously think that is superior. I wouldn't. I don't want a touch screen control on my refrigerator. I just want it to keep shit cold and dispense water when I push my glass against the water button, and ice when I push my glass against the ice button. I would say the touch screen is useless, and you would tell me that if I open the door and just grab the ice out of the bin that they are exactly the same, but it is not. I have lost functionality, it is cumbersome to use at times, and it is annoying.
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Can you play Doom on it yet?
Filed under: people who don't want to play Doom on their appliances are Doing It Wrong
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You are exactly like him.
Except Jeff actually makes things. Broken, horrid, weird, wrong-from-the-very-start things, but things all the same. All blakey makes is rancid little farting noises.
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Filed Under: blakeybait
No, blakeybait would be saying: "Windows would never make mistakes like that if it were open-source." ;)
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There are more things that are blakeybait, Polygeekery
Than are listed in your post.
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Essentially, having an opinion that is not handed to you by the demi-god that is blakeyrat, is blakeybait.
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Things Blakeyrat makes aren't under the name "Blakeyrat". Generally speaking.
Windows 2000 - Wikipedia
