🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD
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I've just found out by holding my Caps Lock key that it toggles on immediately when I press it, but it only toggles off when I release it.
Interesting. Mine doesn't do that--it toggles on press in both directions, as validated by both typing and the LED. It's a mechanical keyboard, though, not a rubber dome. Don't know if that makes a difference.
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pedantry: usb keyboards are capable of n-key rollover, by use of a custom driver. Apparently most vendors simply don't bother. (You have to not use the HID driver, which only supports 6-key rollover. With your own driver you can add as many key states as you want to your custom message format.)
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"if the patient experiences pain but doesn't remember it, did they really experience pain?"
I remember reading a story many years ago. Medical technology had advanced to the point they could regrow limbs for soldiers who lost them in battle, but it was extremely painful and took a long time. Rather than keep patients on powerful painkillers for months, they just prevented any short-term memory. At any given moment the patients were in pain, but there was no memory that they had been in pain a second before, nor anticipation that they would be in pain a second in the future.
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You might or might not be thinking of Heinlein's Time Enough For Love, which used that on Lazarus Long in the process of restoring his body.
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I read a story where packs of wolves were sentient individuals (yes the pack was an individual) because each individual wolf had a special vocal cord and ear that transmitted/received their thoughts to nearby wolves like a 56k modem. Also there was a plant man in an electric wheelchair who saves a bunch of puppies.
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The trouble with that hypothesis is that we don't really remember what pain feels like anyway. So they hypothesis that not remembering pain means you didn't feel it is bunk.
I had some dental work done without anaesthetic once, and I know it hurt like hell. I also have no recollection of the feeling.
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The trouble with that hypothesis is that we don't really remember what pain feels like anyway. So they hypothesis that not remembering pain means you didn't feel it is bunk.
Well, I don't agree with that at all. I remember exactly what, for example, the recovery from abdominal surgery feels like.
I had some dental work done without anaesthetic once, and I know it hurt like hell. I also have no recollection of the feeling.
With my example, I don't mean I don't remember the pain, I mean I don't remember the process at all. I remember sitting in the chair. I remember the IV going in my arm, and the chemical going in, because I could feel cold going up my arm. I remember saying "wow, it just hit my shoulder" and immediately waking up at home in bed.
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You might or might not be thinking of Heinlein's Time Enough For Love, which used that on Lazarus Long in the process of restoring his body.
Could well be. I've certainly read that. I remember something about space suits that automatically seal, amputating the limb in the process, when a limb is wounded, but its entirely possible I'm conflating two different stories.
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I had some dental work done without anaesthetic once, and I know it hurt like hell.
I had some work done on a chipped tooth, and for whatever reason that tooth wouldn't numb. My entire face was numb, my tongue was numb, and every single tooth was numb EXCEPT FOR THE ONE BEING WORKED ON.
Did not feel good at all. They ended up going as quickly as possible and doing the bare minimum to cap over the exposed parts of the tooth with plastic. It was one of my molars so appearance wasn't terribly important.
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I read a story where packs of wolves were sentient individuals (yes the pack was an individual) because each individual wolf had a special vocal cord and ear that transmitted/received their thoughts to nearby wolves like a 56k modem. Also there was a plant man in an electric wheelchair who saves a bunch of puppies.
Awesome book. A Fire Upon The Deep.
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It was godawful.
Full of some interesting ideas, but as a book it was godawful. And it felt like half of it was:
Let's see what inter-galactic Usenet feels about this! BTW to make it feel more "epic", Usenet-of-the-future is used by entire civilizations which are all hive-minds apparently? Not individuals. SO EPIC!
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Well, I don't agree with that at all. I remember exactly what, for example, the recovery from abdominal surgery feels like.
Remember it. Do you feel the same pain in your gut?
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Then you don't remember what the pain feels like.
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Correct. However that book was also at least 250 pages too fucking long, and like 75% of the plot points did not matter by the end of it.
Also the mysterious field that makes things dumber as they get closer to the center of the galaxy? Even computers? The book was full of good ideas, but that was the dumbest idea.
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Also the mysterious field that makes things dumber as they get closer to the center of the galaxy? Even computers? The book was full of good ideas, but that was the dumbest idea.
That was the most interesting idea. Because everything else flowed from it.
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That was the most interesting idea. Because everything else flowed from it.
No. Was dumb.
To become a super-intelligent 2001 Star Baby you just had to get a warp ship and travel far enough away from the galaxy's center. And everybody had warp ships, but only a few people had done it. And by "people" I mean "civilizations" because that MAKES IT SOUND MORE EPIC LOLZ.
Hell I don't even remember what the bad guy's motivation was. He blew up a space station, I remember that, but I don't remember why or what he hoped to accomplish. And the way they "killed him" reminds me of the idiotic end of Mass Effect 3... maybe that's what EA was inspired by.
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Remember it. Do you feel the same pain in your gut?
I can think about the pain and remember exactly what it was like, yes. That doesn't mean I actually feel it. It's like how I can remember the face of someone I know who died, but I don't actually see them in front of me.
Healing from abdominal surgery is a lot like healing from getting stabbed. It makes an lasting impression, is what I'm saying.
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To become a super-intelligent 2001 Star Baby you just had to get a warp ship and travel far enough away from the galaxy's center. And everybody had warp ships, but only a few people had done it. And by "people" I mean "civilizations" because that MAKES IT SOUND MORE EPIC LOLZ.
Not true. But the civilization could use more advanced technologies enabled by the physics of the zone. But of course, there were more dangerous things out there that maybe they could not comprehend or defend against. Like an ant walking onto your picnic table.
It was terribly dangerous to go up into the beyond, which was why so few tried it. And, of course, there was the Blight, waiting a few billion years for a hapless civilization to come along and wake it up.
tl;dr; BDGI
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Not true. But the civilization could use more advanced technologies enabled by the physics of the zone. But of course, there were more dangerous things out there that maybe they could not comprehend or defend against. Like an ant walking onto your picnic table.
Ok.
It was terribly dangerous to go up into the beyond, which was why so few tried it. And, of course, there was the Blight, waiting a few billion years for a hapless civilization to come along and wake it up.
Right; but what was "The Blight" doing exactly? What was it trying to accomplish? The only specific thing I remember "The Blight" doing was blowing up the space station to try and prevent the heroes from making it to the wolf-planet.
And then to defeat it [spoiler]the heroes destroy like a trillion people. Just flat out: BAM! the computers that control your life support systems no longer work because the "stupid field" is bigger now, fuck you suckers.[/spoiler]
It's a pretty bad sign when a reader of your book doesn't remember what the villain of the book even wanted.
Also that white-haired dude was a total Mary Sue.
The stuff on the wolf-planet, that shit was interesting. That should have been the whole book with all the shit about spaceships and space-usenet and mysterious super-intelligent God-ghosts removed.
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I think it stands for Ben Didn't Get It.
<In this post: Ben Didn't Get It>
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Also, we're gonna need to slow down to let the year catch up with us.
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It's a pretty bad sign when a reader of your book doesn't remember what the villain of the book even wanted.
I might agree with you if you could produce more readers who thought this.
The stuff on the wolf-planet, that shit was interesting. That should have been the whole book with all the shit about spaceships and space-usenet and mysterious super-intelligent God-ghosts removed.
There was a (prequel?) related short story about the dogs, and a super-prequel that features the actual Pham. You'll appreciate his character a lot more if you read that. There's also a sequel that takes place on the dog planet. It was good, but not as good as Fire Upon The Deep or Deepness in the Sky, but I have no idea what you'd think about them.
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I might agree with you if you could produce more readers who thought this.
Do you remember what he was after? Let's start with that little sample size.
I seem to recall the book explained it basically like, "well he's evil because... shrug. Evil stuff?"
There was a (prequel?) related short story about the dogs, and a super-prequel that features the actual Pham. You'll appreciate his character a lot more if you read that. There's also a sequel that takes place on the dog planet.
When I read a bad book, I generally don't seek out the sequels to the bad book.
Did the dog-planet even have a name? I honestly don't remember.
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Also, we're gonna need to slow down to let the year catch up with us.
I would literally mark the calendar with "Ben actually made a funny joke" if I had one to hand.
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Duh.. Blakey Doesn't Get It.
Amazing how that makes sense in retrospect. I wouldn't expect such a meaningful acronym to be used BTSTBUT (By The Site That Brought Us TDEMSYR).
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Don't forget this is also the site that gave us JDGI: Jeff Doesn't Get It.
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Do you remember what he was after? Let's start with that little sample size.
I seem to recall the book explained it basically like, "well he's evil because... shrug. Evil stuff?"
He was into controlling everyone and everything. Liked playing with the lesser beings, apparently. Like a kid pulling the wings off of flies.
Part of the problem with the Transcend was that the beings there didn't make sense to the people from the Beyond or, /spit, the Slow Zone, again, like humans compared to ants. Study of these things was referred to as Applied Theology.
Did the dog-planet even have a name? I honestly don't remember.
I recall the people calling it Tines World, but I don't remember a more formal name.
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He was into controlling everyone and everything. Liked playing with the lesser beings, apparently. Like a kid pulling the wings off of flies.
That's just dumb.
Part of the problem with the Transcend was that the beings there didn't make sense to the people from the Beyond or, /spit, the Slow Zone, again, like humans compared to ants. Study of these things was referred to as Applied Theology.
I kind of get that. But you could always just move closer towards the center of the galaxy where they become dumb and fade away and then you're 100% safe. Because of the "dumb field" which emanates from the center of the galaxy and makes things dumb, such a fucking stupid idea.
So it's like they build this space station in a flood plain and then were surprised when it flooded.
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So it's like they build this space station in a flood plane and then were surprised when it flooded.
Yes, everyone in the Beyond in that part of the galaxy was pretty pissed off at the humans for playing around up there.
Because of the "dumb field" which emanates from the center of the galaxy and makes things dumb, such a fucking stupid idea.
Yeah, once again we're back into "dumb" territory defined by your poor imagination. I can live with that.
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Look, FTL drives: I can manage. Aliens who evolved 56k modem ears? Sure why not. Big space stations? Awesome. Shooting nukes at each other while trying to dodge them using FTL drives? Also awesome. An intergalactic version of Usenet where instead of individuals posting, entire civilizations do? ... sure why not.
Mysterious force that emanates from the center of the galaxy and makes everybody (including computers) dumb? That crosses a line. A dumb-line.
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Mysterious force that emanates from the center of the galaxy and makes everybody (including computers) dumb? That crosses a line. A dumb-line.
LOL. Yeah, fundamental physics changes based on how far you are from the distribution of mass in a galaxy. I can't see why that's a dumb idea (for speculative fiction, not an attempt at serious physics). All we have is your assertion.
The book didn't cross the dumb line. The dumb line crossed @blakeyrat. /soviet-machete
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LOL. Yeah, fundamental physics changes based on how far you are from the distribution of mass in a galaxy.
Right but nothing changed except people were dumber. That was the only "physics change": you got dumb.
But anyway, I wouldn't have a problem with that if the book wasn't so dull otherwise. Like I said, trim 200 pages from it and it'd probably be pretty great.
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Mysterious force that emanates from the center of the galaxy and makes everybody (including computers) dumb? That crosses a line. A dumb-line.
INB4 "A discourse-line".
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Well, Jeff does seem to think that he's the center of the universe ...
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Right but nothing changed except people were dumber. That was the only "physics change": you got dumb.
Nothing except tons of stuff. Like FTL travel that got progressively better / worse. Antigravity. Computers with real AI. Artificial immune systems (whatever that was about). Lots of stuff changed.
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Nothing except tons of stuff. Like FTL travel that got progressively better / worse. Antigravity. Computers with real AI. Artificial immune systems (whatever that was about). Lots of stuff changed.
Wouldn't you be able to handle most of that with Blakey's previous "everything got dumber, even computesrs"?
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It didn't change because physics, it changed because those required sophisticated computers to run and the computers could no longer do it because they got too dumb.
Same reason the space-Usenet translations got worse as they went inward-- their FTL antenna (or whatever) worked just as well, but their computer was too stupid to do good translations of other languages. The reason space-Usenet becomes useless later on (not that it was anything but filler to make the story look more EPIC! in the first place) wasn't because they stop receiving FTL signals, but it was because they can no longer translate any languages.
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It didn't change because physics, it changed because those required sophisticated computers to run and the computers could no longer do it because they got too dumb.
Because something about the underlying physics changed. So computers and whatever else could be more efficient or use different whatevers.
Same reason the space-Usenet translations got worse as they went inward-- their FTL antenna (or whatever) worked just as well, but their computer was too stupid to do good translations of other languages.
No, the antennae didn't work just as well, either, though translations did suffer.
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No, the antennae didn't work just as well, either, though translations did suffer.
If that happens, I do not recall them mentioning in the book at any point that the antenna no longer works. Nor do they at any point have a discussion about the technology that powers the FTL drive failing.
The only thing they do talk about is how the ship's computer is being too stupid to translate languages, and too stupid to run the FTL drive.
But whatever. It's a book I read years ago and didn't really enjoy (holistically; I liked the stuff with the wolves). I'm already angry that it's occupying this much of my memory.
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Remember it. Do you feel the same pain in your gut?
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Then you don't remember what the pain feels like.
I don't have to be currently suffering a migraine to remember how it feels. I don't have to break my sternum (again) to remember how that felt. I don't need to see a picture of my grandfather to remember what he looked like. Remembering != Re-experiencing
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My argument is derivative of the private language argument. You can't remember what your pain feels like. You can remember how you described it. There is a subtle difference between them.
I would think this would be especially obvious to somebody with migraine, like me too. How can I describe my aura? It's like the noise a jet engine makes, in the form of pain and lights. That's not a very good description. And I can't "re-experience it", either, unless I actually experience it again.
This is all irrelevant to my argument about anaesthetic. I can remember that I had horrible pain in my mouth. I cannot remember what it felt like (re-experience it, in your terms).
And that is why the anaesthetic argument is bullshit. The claim that not remembering pain means we never experienced it in the first place is bullshit.
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My argument is derivative of the private language argument. You can't remember what your pain feels like. You can remember how you described it. There is a subtle difference between them.
I would think this would be especially obvious to somebody with migraine, like me too. How can I describe my aura? It's like the noise a jet engine makes, in the form of pain and lights. That's not a very good description. And I can't "re-experience it", either, unless I actually experience it again.
So because you can't describe what it felt like to someone else means that you can't remember it? I bet you can't describe your migraines any better while they are happening, so that must main that they don't really hurt.
I'm sure we can agree that migraines really do hurt, regardless of your ability to describe the pain. Therefore, your inability to describe a recollection of the pain does not mean that you can't remember the pain.
To simplify: the ability to recall an experience is independent of the ability to communicate that experience. The private language argument does not apply.
This is all irrelevant to my argument about anaesthetic. I can remember that I had horrible pain in my mouth. I cannot remember what it felt like (re-experience it, in your terms).
And that is why the anaesthetic argument is bullshit. The claim that not remembering pain means we never experienced it in the first place is bullshit.
Except that this all started as a hypothesis that not remembering feeling pain indicated a lack of feeling pain. You tried to counter that by saying:
The trouble with that hypothesis is that we don't really remember what pain feels like anyway.
I'm just trying to prove that your counter-argument is crap. You said you had dental work done without anesthetic once, but you don't recall the sensation. There are a few possibilities to explain this besides your bullshit explanation:
- It's been a long time since the experience, and you've simply forgotten.
- It was a single experience. Studies have shown that single painful experiences are less likely to be strongly remembered than repeated painful experiences. Under this possibility, you may have forgotten the sensation as extraneous information.
- For some experiences, our memories are dulled. This is generally only observed with painful experiences that are coupled with a biological imperative, such as child birth. The process of child birth actually triggers the release of a chemical that dulls the mother's recollection of the experience, increasing the chances that she will have more children. This is probably not the case with your dental experience, unless you're a masochist.
Plenty of people are capable of remembering the sensation of a painful event. They may not be able to communication that memory, but so what? That doesn't diminish the accuracy of the memory.
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Correct. However that book was also at least 250 pages too fucking long, and like 75% of the plot points did not matter by the end of it.
Every Heinlein story ever...
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facepalm
It's been a long time since the experience, and you've simply forgotten.
Yes indeed, our brains are wired to forget the sensation. Our brains do not remember sensations, they remember descriptions of sensations.
But, I'll give you a question: what is causing these mysterious but apparently plentiful people's pain receptors to fire when they "remember"?
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Yes indeed, our brains are wired to forget the sensation. Our brains do not remember sensations, they remember descriptions of sensations.
Did you even read the rest of my post?
