Now that we have sufficiently beaten Go into the ground, what about Dart?
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@esoterik said:
Brainfuck is touring complete...
Oh man, do you have a schedule? If it's nearby I'll drop in and buy some merch!
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@morbiuswilters said:
@esoterik said:
Brainfuck is touring complete...
Oh man, do you have a schedule? If it's nearby I'll drop in and buy some merch!
No, it's touring complete. The tour is done. You missed it.
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@alphadogg said:
Simply because pissing on new things makes them feel better.
I also like pissing on old things. Really, I just like pissing on anything retarded, which happens to include Dart and Go and most other "new" languages.
@alphadogg said:
I guess it's inevitable that for every fad, like Go, there has to be some guy who fear change at the peak of the backlash...
I don't.. what is this.. so you're admitting Go is a fad? And.. there's backlash, but not aimed at Go, but emanating from it? And we're at its peak?
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Your assholiness notwhithstanding, which really isn't indimidating in the least, do you think all languages start awesome? So, what's your favorite language now? How awesome was it at its inception?
PS: For the record, no I don't work or have any affiliation with Google or any of its third-parties, and you don't have any copyright or ownership of the word "aspie" or "Asperger's". It's pretty common on many forums and sufferers like yourself are prevalent on tech forums who tend to make assholes of themselves by assuming too much.
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@Ben L. said:
@morbiuswilters said:
@esoterik said:
Brainfuck is touring complete...
Oh man, do you have a schedule? If it's nearby I'll drop in and buy some merch!
No, it's touring complete. The tour is done. You missed it.
Dammit, it's Foghat all over again! [Morbs stares wistfully as the sky as Slow Ride starts playing]
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@morbiuswilters said:
I don't.. what is this.. so you're admitting Go is a fad?
Ok, so now that we're past the insult phase that you have with ... well, seemingly everyone not you, we can move on.
Yes, Go and Dart, like many technologies, is probably going through the hype cycle. At its peak, you have zealots who think its all peachy-keen-awesum!!1!! and grumpy farts like you who gainsay anything and everything, choosing to focus on the blemishes rather than the whole. Eventually, Go and Dart will mature (if Google doesn't shitcan it randomly like Fox drops good TV shows for bad) and thenpeople like you will go one feeling better about themselves by bashing the newest emerging language...
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@Arnavion said:
To be fair to Dart, Dartium (the only browser with an actual Dart VM) lets you debug Dart directly.
So actual debuggability is the candy that Dart uses to get you into the windowless van that is Dartium?
@Arnavion said:
For everything else that needs to run the compiled JS, the Dart compiler generates sourcemaps that debuggers can use to do the same thing.
So not useful for Firebug, which most web developers seem to prefer.
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@alphadogg said:
and you don't have any copyright or ownership of the word "aspie" or "Asperger's". It's pretty common on many forums and sufferers like yourself are prevalent on tech forums who tend to make assholes of themselves by assuming too much.
Morbs isn't an aspie. The reality is much, much worse. He's....a vegetarian.
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@alphadogg said:
...do you think all languages start awesome?
No, but they usually have to offer some compelling benefits over the languages they seek to replace. When they're worse, then why the fuck should I use them? And Dart and Go are not the future; they're just going to end up abandoned failures.
@alphadogg said:
So, what's your favorite language now?
I don't know that I have one. Maybe C, because it's stuck by the principle of being portable assembly that's optimized for compiler writers and not actual users of the language for forty years. I mean, that sucks, but it takes gumption to suck for that long.
@alphadogg said:
How awesome was it at its inception?
About the same as now.
@alphadogg said:
...and you don't have any copyright or ownership of the word "aspie" or "Asperger's".
I think you'll find that I do.
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@alphadogg said:
Ok, so now that we're past the insult phase that you have with ... well, seemingly everyone not you, we can move on.
I have a problem with stupid people. It's not my fault 99.99% of the world is stupid.
@alphadogg said:
Yes, Go and Dart, like many technologies, is probably going through the hype cycle.
Really? Because outside of a few people mocking it here, I hadn't heard of them*. I think some number of people have to actually care about something for it to be a fad. Go and Dart are more like sad, lonely obsessions.
@alphadogg said:
...choosing to focus on the blemishes rather than the whole.
In this case, the blemishes are the whole.
@alphadogg said:
Eventually, Go and Dart will mature (if Google doesn't shitcan it randomly...
No they won't. And Google probably will shitcan them, but not randomly but because they are shitty technologies that are significantly worse than the alternatives.
(*I actually heard about Go back several years, just some blog posts about how mediocre it was, but I never really cared enough to dig in. If only I knew the comedy gold I was missing out on!)
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@alphadogg said:
Your assholiness notwhithstanding, which really isn't indimidating in the least, do you think all languages start awesome? So, what's your favorite language now? How awesome was it at its inception?
PS: For the record, no I don't work or have any affiliation with Google or any of its third-parties, and you don't have any copyright or ownership of the word "aspie" or "Asperger's". It's pretty common on many forums and sufferers like yourself are prevalent on tech forums who tend to make assholes of themselves by assuming too much.
Hey everybody needs to brush up on the insulting lingo because of an update on the DSM-V:
@The article I linked above said:
The most significant changes have included removing Asperger's as a separate disorder and "collapsing" it under the autism spectrum, adding binge drinking and hoarding, and removing the "bereavement exception" from signs of clinical depression
Using Asperger to insult someone is no cool anymore, it's as obsolete as saying "gay cancer" for AIDS ("African cancer" is more accurate).
@alphadogg said:
It's pretty common on many forums
Now what is awesome is that some of the new conditions added to the DSM-V (like binge drinking and hoarding) are likely very common in the IT industry so there is plenty of material to use.
Notice to the reader: if you have in your house computer spare parts that haven't been used in more than one year, then YES you show early signs of hoarding.
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@boomzilla said:
He's....a vegetarian.
Yeah, I'd never eat an ass burger.
I apologize, that wasn't very funny at all.
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@Ronald said:
Now what is awesome is that some of the new conditions added to the DSM-V (like binge drinking and hoarding)...
According to the quote you provided, those aren't new disorders, but signs of clinical depression. Of course, doctors are uptight assholes who consider more than 24 beers in 24 hours "binge drinking" which is "causing your liver to fail".
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@morbiuswilters said:
@alphadogg said:
So, what's your favorite language now?
I don't know that I have one. Maybe C, because it's stuck by the principle of being portable assembly
So, for you, C is the best language out there, but it sucks, and all other established languages also suck, and new languages suck even more?
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@alphadogg said:
@morbiuswilters said:
@alphadogg said:
So, what's your favorite language now?
I don't know that I have one. Maybe C, because it's stuck by the principle of being portable assembly
So, for you, C is the best language out there, but it sucks, and all other established languages also suck, and new languages suck even more?
Yes.
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@alphadogg said:
So, for you, C is the best language out there, but it sucks, and all other established languages also suck, and new languages suck even more?
Now he's catching on.
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@Ben L. said:
But
functionis EIGHT WHOLE BYTES long. That's like half of my bandwidth for the month!
View our Dial-up Services
Move out of the sticks, gentlemen.
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@alphadogg said:
@morbiuswilters said:
@alphadogg said:
So, what's your favorite language now?
I don't know that I have one. Maybe C, because it's stuck by the principle of being portable assembly
So, for you, C is the best language out there, but it sucks, and all other established languages also suck, and new languages suck even more?
That sums it up pretty well.
Besides, I didn't say C was the best at everything, I just admire their spirit of "Fuck the fucking programmer". It's like Go, except people use it.
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@alphadogg said:
So, for you, C is the best language out there, but it sucks, and all other established languages also suck, and new languages suck even more?
I think you'll find that there are the languages that suck and which we bitch about to varying extents, and then there are the languages that nobody uses.
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@Ben L. said:
Yes.
Engineer (Second Class) Ben Lynn waited impatiently for the DNA scanner to read his genetic fingerprint and open the last Tachyon Arrester Barrier containment field separating him from the Operations Level. Twenty years of advances in antimatter logic units, and it still takes nearly 3 seconds to sequence a few billion base pairs and open a TAB he thought with irritation. Suddenly the familiar crackling sound and smell of ozone let Ben know it was safe to pass; he was already on the other side of the barrier before his comm implant told him it was safe to proceed. He rushed down the grand corridor, his heels clicking against the nano-marble floor.
His head pounded. He'd only had time to for a single subcutaneous injection of synth-phetamines this morning. If it had been any other morning, he would have enjoyed two or three injections while perusing the latest news on the GlobeWeb. Today was not any other morning. He'd received a Level III distress page a full Standard Earth Hour before his sleeping pod was programmed to execute its awakening subroutine. A Level III! he thought. He'd never so much as seen anything higher than a Level Vb before, and that was when he was a new recruit at the Academy.
He continued to run down the corridor, ornate pillars of nano-marble towering hundreds of meters above his head. His body--and the ampoule of synth-phetamines--were doing their best to overcome the somniatic drugs his 'pod had been supplying him with up until about 15 minutes prior. He hoped against hope that there still would be some synth-phetamine doses left in the cafeteria when he reached the Operations Atrium, but with the snippets of convos his comm implant was picking up, he doubted it. Something big was going down. And if they were calling him in, the Class I and Class Ia Engineers had already been up for hours.
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@Ronald said:
Notice to the reader: if you have in your house computer spare parts that haven't been used in more than one year, then YES you show early signs of hoarding.
I’m using my mid-90s Dell XPS P90 as an end table, does that count as “using?”
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@Sir Twist said:
@Ronald said:
Notice to the reader: if you have in your house computer spare parts that haven't been used in more than one year, then YES you show early signs of hoarding.
I’m using my mid-90s Dell XPS P90 as an end table, does that count as “using?”There's an obvious exception for people living in shacks made from scavenged airplane parts and old computer equipment.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Sir Twist said:
@Ronald said:
Notice to the reader: if you have in your house computer spare parts that haven't been used in more than one year, then YES you show early signs of hoarding.
I’m using my mid-90s Dell XPS P90 as an end table, does that count as “using?”There's an obvious exception for people living in shacks made from scavenged airplane parts and old computer equipment.
Less than a week after I threw out all the various spools of Cat-5 and Cat-6 cable in my household, I got a quick contract to install and configure Linux for a server; it, of course, lacked WiFi.
I suppose the real TRWTF was that the "server" was an old used PC from Micro Center, and that they wanted me to take it home, configure it, and return it. Still, it paid well for less than an hour's work. Erm, I mean, a full day's work *cough*.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Arnavion said:
To be fair to Dart, Dartium (the only browser with an actual Dart VM) lets you debug Dart directly.
So actual debuggability is the candy that Dart uses to get you into the windowless van that is Dartium?
Heh.@morbiuswilters said:
@Arnavion said:
For everything else that needs to run the compiled JS, the Dart compiler generates sourcemaps that debuggers can use to do the same thing.
So not useful for Firebug, which most web developers seem to prefer.
Wow, I didn't know FF and Firebug didn't support sourcemaps. That sucks, yes.
Last time I used Firebug, it didn't have anything that Chrome's dev tools didn't, so unless I'm debugging something FF-specific I always work in Chrome.
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@Arnavion said:
Wow, I didn't know FF and Firebug didn't support sourcemaps. That sucks, yes.
Last time I used Firebug, it didn't have anything that Chrome's dev tools didn't, so unless I'm debugging something FF-specific I always work in Chrome.
I use Chrome, too, but we seem to be in the minority. Still, you have to admire Google's attitude here. "Try our new language, Dart! Oh, but if you want debugging, you'll need to use our custom browser, Dartium. Of course, you can also generate source maps which will work in the Javascript debugger of ANY (Google) browser."
Remember when dumb nerds used to scream "Embrace, extend, extinguish!" about M$?
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Arnavion said:
Wow, I didn't know FF and Firebug didn't support sourcemaps. That sucks, yes.
Last time I used Firebug, it didn't have anything that Chrome's dev tools didn't, so unless I'm debugging something FF-specific I always work in Chrome.
I use Chrome, too, but we seem to be in the minority. Still, you have to admire Google's attitude here. "Try our new language, Dart! Oh, but if you want debugging, you'll need to use our custom browser, Dartium. Of course, you can also generate source maps which will work in the Javascript debugger of ANY (Google) browser."
Remember when dumb nerds used to scream "Embrace, extend, extinguish!" about M$?
Yeah, except the Google stuff is free. And by free I mean open source with a permissive license. The extinguish part might be a bit hard if Google decides to go down that path.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Filed under:
Let's just be thankful Google hasn't invented their own non-standard alternative to HTTP yet.
I'm going to assume you're joking.
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@Ben L. said:
Yeah, except the Google stuff is free. And by free I mean open source with a permissive license. The extinguish part might be a bit hard if Google decides to go down that path.
No, the point isn't whether it's "free", it's whether the old technologies are pushed aside and replaced with what Google wants. Which is exactly what got people riled up about M$ (remember when idiots got their panties in a wad because M$ wanted to make their Office format an open standard?)
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@Arnavion said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Filed under:
Let's just be thankful Google hasn't invented their own non-standard alternative to HTTP yet.
I'm going to assume you're joking.That's usually the safest bet with me.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Arnavion said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Filed under:
Let's just be thankful Google hasn't invented their own non-standard alternative to HTTP yet.
I'm going to assume you're joking.That's usually the safest bet with me.
I'm going to assume spdy doesn't count because it sucks more than all the other things we complain about on this forum.
Specifically, it's impossible to make a spdy website without owning an SSL certificate.
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@Ben L. said:
Specifically, it's impossible to make a spdy website without owning an SSL certificate.
I don't think that's bad at all. SSL needs to be standard on the web and unencrypted traffic needs to be phased out. The only problem is SSL is pretty crappy, too (specifically the CA system).
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Ben L. said:
Specifically, it's impossible to make a spdy website without owning an SSL certificate.
I don't think that's bad at all. SSL needs to be standard on the web and unencrypted traffic needs to be phased out. The only problem is SSL is pretty crappy, too (specifically the CA system).
Let's say I want to make a test site that uses spdy and demonstrate it to a client. I'd have to either buy an SSL certificate for the test site, walk the client through allowing my self-signed certificate, or put the site on some other client's domain.
Oh, and by the way, all except the last one require a dedicated IP for the server. And the last one is even worse.
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@Ben L. said:
Let's say I want to make a test site that uses spdy and demonstrate it to a client.
Why would you need to do this? Just serve the site as HTTP if you just need to demo something. spdy's only real benefit is in production.
@Ben L. said:
I'd have to either buy an SSL certificate for the test site, walk the client through allowing my self-signed certificate, or put the site on some other client's domain.
Oh, and by the way, all except the last one require a dedicated IP for the server. And the last one is even worse.
Although I already covered why you wouldn't need to bother with spdy for a demo site, for a production site you can just use a wildcard or SAN cert if you need to host multiple domains on a single IP. Or you could, I dunno, just get another fucking IP.
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@mikeTheLiar said:
@Ben L. said:
But
functionis EIGHT WHOLE BYTES long. That's like half of my bandwidth for the month!
View our Dial-up Services
Move out of the sticks, gentlemen.The gauge is beautiful and manly looking, it would make a terrific hit counter on my Harley-Davidson webring. Too bad it's forever welded to the download speed table:
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@Ronald said:
@mikeTheLiar said:
@Ben L. said:
But
functionis EIGHT WHOLE BYTES long. That's like half of my bandwidth for the month!
View our Dial-up Services
Move out of the sticks, gentlemen.The gauge is beautiful and manly looking, it would make a terrific hit counter on my Harley-Davidson webring. Too bad it's forever welded to the download speed table:
It looks like it's bleeding...
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@joe.edwards said:
Less than a week after I threw out all the various spools of Cat-5 and Cat-6 cable in my household, I got a quick contract to install and configure Linux for a server; it, of course, lacked WiFi.
I suppose the real TRWTF was that the "server" was an old used PC from Micro Center, and that they wanted me to take it home, configure it, and return it. Still, it paid well for less than an hour's work. Erm, I mean, a full day's work *cough*.
Every time I stop watching reruns of Adam-12 to browse this forum you appear to be talking about all that money you're making. As Gimli once said: remember that it is poetry that will save the world, not commerce.
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@Ben L. said:
It looks like it's bleeding...
THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID
meanwhile the man silently gave a thumbs up to God
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@Ronald said:
As Gimli once said: remember that it is poetry that will save the world, not commerce.
Man, fuck Tolkein. I made it halfway through Two Towers and was like "If there's another goddamn Hobbit song, I'm throwing these fucking books in the trash. I won't even sell them because I don't want to propagate this garbage."
Turned the page, and there was a page-and-a-half Hobbit song. Burned the books and never looked back.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Ronald said:
As Gimli once said: remember that it is poetry that will save the world, not commerce.
Man, fuck Tolkein. I made it halfway through Two Towers and was like "If there's another goddamn Hobbit song, I'm throwing these fucking books in the trash. I won't even sell them because I don't want to propagate this garbage."
Turned the page, and there was a page-and-a-half Hobbit song. Burned the books and never looked back.
Was it a trashcan fire?
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@Ronald said:
Notice to the reader: if you have in your house computer spare parts that haven't been used in more than one year, then YES you show early signs of hoarding.
You've inspired me to turn my life around. First thing tomorrow, I rip out that floppy drive.
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@Ben L. said:
I'd have to either buy an SSL certificate for the test site
Someone hasn't heard of StartSSL. If you can live with getting a cert from Israel, you should look into them too. Their CA cert is in most browsers too.
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@drurowin said:
@Ben L. said:
I'd have to either buy an SSL certificate for the test site
Someone hasn't heard of StartSSL. If you can live with getting a cert from Israel, you should look into them too. Their CA cert is in most browsers too.
Or just slip 100 renminbi to someone at CNNIC and get any cert you want. You want cert for Google? Microsofts? NSA? Any cert you want, 100 renminbi.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Man, fuck Tolkein. I made it halfway through Two Towers
The Silmarillion is really good, though.
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@Ben L. said:
Specifically, it's impossible to make a spdy website without owning an SSL certificate.
You make this sound like a problem. Now, that means that either you're one of the tinfoil hat brigade, or you're a foolish cheapskate. (For a production website, you want SSL. You can even do it for free if you're willing to go to the effort of installing your custom certificate in clients, though for a real public website the cost of a certificate signed by a public CA is quite manageable relative to the other costs such as having a domain and a virtual server to run the web server on.)On the tinfoil hat front, the real problem is that there is a suspicion that some public CAs are not as trustworthy as they should be (though where that's proved, they get kicked out) and that some clients have extra certificates from decidedly untrustworthy parties installed (which are then used together with evil proxies to spoof traffic). Doing anything about these problems is very tricky indeed, especially as virtually no end user is competent to make a decision about the validity of a certificate or the policies relating to that. (Nor are most “security professionals”.)
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@drurowin said:
@Ben L. said:
I'd have to either buy an SSL certificate for the test site
Someone hasn't heard of StartSSL. If you can live with getting a cert from Israel, you should look into them too. Their CA cert is in most browsers too.
Or godaddy. It's usually under $20 and sometimes under $10
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@morbiuswilters said:
@Ben L. said:
Yes.
Engineer (Second Class) Ben Lynn waited impatiently for the DNA scanner to read his genetic fingerprint and open the last Tachyon Arrester Barrier containment field separating him from the Operations Level. Twenty years of advances in antimatter logic units, and it still takes nearly 3 seconds to sequence a few billion base pairs and open a TAB he thought with irritation. Suddenly the familiar crackling sound and smell of ozone let Ben know it was safe to pass; he was already on the other side of the barrier before his comm implant told him it was safe to proceed. He rushed down the grand corridor, his heels clicking against the nano-marble floor.
His head pounded. He'd only had time to for a single subcutaneous injection of synth-phetamines this morning. If it had been any other morning, he would have enjoyed two or three injections while perusing the latest news on the GlobeWeb. Today was not any other morning. He'd received a Level III distress page a full Standard Earth Hour before his sleeping pod was programmed to execute its awakening subroutine. A Level III! he thought. He'd never so much as seen anything higher than a Level Vb before, and that was when he was a new recruit at the Academy.
He continued to run down the corridor, ornate pillars of nano-marble towering hundreds of meters above his head. His body--and the ampoule of synth-phetamines--were doing their best to overcome the somniatic drugs his 'pod had been supplying him with up until about 15 minutes prior. He hoped against hope that there still would be some synth-phetamine doses left in the cafeteria when he reached the Operations Atrium, but with the snippets of convos his comm implant was picking up, he doubted it. Something big was going down. And if they were calling him in, the Class I and Class Ia Engineers had already been up for hours.
Well, don't keep us waiting... What happened to the emperor' s daughter?
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@russ0519 said:
Well, don't keep us waiting... What happened to the emperor' s daughter?
I'm guessing it involves a purple dildo.
-
So wouldn't the proliferation of SPDY (and therefore of TLS encryption) conflict with Google Fiber's interest in spying on subscriber Internet traffic?
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@joe.edwards said:
So wouldn't the proliferation of SPDY (and therefore of TLS encryption) conflict with Google Fiber's interest in spying on subscriber Internet traffic?
That's because said interest was just Morb's shoulder aliens.
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@MiffTheFox said:
@joe.edwards said:
So wouldn't the proliferation of SPDY (and therefore of TLS encryption) conflict with Google Fiber's interest in spying on subscriber Internet traffic?
That's because said interest was just Morb's shoulder aliens.
Morb's shoulder aliens make the majority of their income off the tracking data they get from monitoring your browsing. By using SPDY and TLS, you're a lazy fucking asshole who is stealing a service without fulfilling your end of of the social contract.
Personally, I support the shoulder aliens by purchasing their merch. I got the "NO SKIN OFF MY SHOULDER" T-Shirt, and the mug with the cartoon of a shoulder pad with a spyglass on it. Everyone at the office is constantly coming up to me and asking me where I got my sweet merch, and where they can get their own.
