It's like using "||", only you get to write four extra lines of code
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@PJH said:
ISTR that we've had this discussion long before you joined - nothing's going to change on the backend.
That a public discussion or a mod-only thing?
I'd have thought the work amounted to a few clicks in the admin panel like WordPress, but I'm guessing there's a bigger issue behind the decision.
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@Cassidy said:
Public. As I recall, part of it revolved around the ironic fact that a site talking about WTF software actually used WTF software for the forum.That a public discussion or a mod-only thing?
I'd have thought the work amounted to a few clicks in the admin panel like WordPress, but I'm guessing there's a bigger issue behind the decision.
CS stopped doing a 'free version' some time back. Alex decided not to pay for the licence. And maintaining (i.e. forking and maintaining) the last free branch would take too much effort.
Suggestions for raising money to pay for the retail version were denigrated. Partly due to the (lack of) numbers who'd actually contribute (without looking/cheating, how many posters are here regularly? And of those, how many would pay?) Partly due to the amusement of the irony mentioned above.
As it stands, it works (after a fashion) and it provides a recurring talking point that usually goes ignored (eating back-spaces, inability of users using newer browsers to use preview before posting, and it now appears, tag links that return 404 as I found out earlier - I think that's a new one.)
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@PJH said:
and it now appears, tag links that return 404 as I found out earlier - I think that's a new one
Anyone else getting this one, or is it just me and something that's been happening forever and I'm the last to find out. Again?
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I'd chip in. You could crowdsource it to Kickstarter to leverage synergy in the cloud... or, something.
Better, put the source in a repo where we can poke and prod at it, and graft yet more WTFness onto it.
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@PJH said:
@PJH said:
Old as dirt, or Community Server.and it now appears, tag links that return 404 as I found out earlier - I think that's a new one
Anyone else getting this one, or is it just me and something that's been happening forever and I'm the last to find out. Again?
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@PJH said:
@PJH said:
and it now appears, tag links that return 404 as I found out earlier - I think that's a new one
Anyone else getting this one, or is it just me and something that's been happening forever and I'm the last to find out. Again?It's been acting like this for awhile. When Alex did one of the Great Tag Purges it seems to have buggered up CS's ability to ever search by tags again.
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@PJH said:
And maintaining (i.e. forking and maintaining) the last free branch would take too much effort.
Erm.. yeah, I can see that point... but a tweak to a module shouldn't be that hard.. should it? Or are you saying that module changes aren't swappable via some admin page?
@PJH said:
Suggestions for ....
I recall a discussion (back when I was a lurker) about there being enough mental grunt around to be able to design and build a functioning forum and thought that would be an exciting project to watch unfold. Pity nothing became of it.
@PJH said:
As it stands, it works (after a fashion)
Yeah, that. It's no worse than some other forums I've used (and is better than many others) and if you know its foibles then you know where to tread.
And the irony isn't lost. Part of its appeal.
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@PJH said:
@PJH said:
and it now appears, tag links that return 404 as I found out earlier - I think that's a new one
Anyone else getting this oneYup - just noticed it. I rarely click on the tags.
@PJH said:
or is it just me and something that's been happening forever and I'm the last to find out. Again?
I'll necro the post in two years' time with another reply.
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@joe.edwards said:
@PJH said:
Probably the latter. I read most of the stuff on here via email notifications, thus rarely bother with tags (since they're not in the emails.) There was one quoted in the body of the message earlier which prompted me to click it. 404. Came back here to check - 404 again.@PJH said:
Old as dirt, or Community Server.and it now appears, tag links that return 404 as I found out earlier - I think that's a new one
Anyone else getting this one, or is it just me and something that's been happening forever and I'm the last to find out. Again?
Which prompts a question based on something mentioned else-board - if the tags are really that useless (having checked, even the tag cloud is returning 404s,) why the fuck are they there. Responses involving themes along the lines of 'it's CS' will probably not be entertained, and I'll modify my GM script to start deleting tags from the DB thusly and henceforthwith.
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@Cassidy said:
I recall a discussion (back when I was a lurker) about there being enough mental grunt around to be able to design and build a functioning forum and thought that would be an exciting project to watch unfold. Pity nothing became of it.
It would quickly become a game to see who could write the least maintainable code. And who's gonna spend time QAing and managing releases? That's assuming we ever got over the initial argument about whether to write it in Go, Forth or MUMPS.
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@PJH said:
@joe.edwards said:
@PJH said:
Probably the latter. I read most of the stuff on here via email notifications, thus rarely bother with tags (since they're not in the emails.) There was one quoted in the body of the message earlier which prompted me to click it. 404. Came back here to check - 404 again.@PJH said:
Old as dirt, or Community Server.and it now appears, tag links that return 404 as I found out earlier - I think that's a new one
Anyone else getting this one, or is it just me and something that's been happening forever and I'm the last to find out. Again?I'm not sure as to why it gives 404s, but it isn't reliable behavior. I've gotten proper results from clicking tags before (it lists things that have that tag), but sometimes an hour later clicking the same tag will give the 404. My random ass guess as to this behaviour is that it tries to look up things with the tag but with a badly handled time limit on it; that way if things complete you get your results but when they are taking too long you get the 404. At least that is my RAG.
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@PJH said:
Which prompts a question based on something mentioned else-board - if the tags are really that useless (having checked, even the tag cloud is returning 404s,) why the fuck are they there.
They used to work, but I think after the first time Alex purged the tags it all went to hell.
The tags are one of my favorite parts of CS. You can use them as "stingers" to your post. Or you can be like dhromed and just tag your posts with the demented, half-formed ramblings of a serial killer.
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@PJH said:
having checked, even the tag cloud is returning 404s,
Tags only break if there's a space in them. I don't know if that's new behaviour.
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CS. Again (Was Re: It's like using "||", only you get to write four extra lines of code)
@Cassidy said:
No, probably not that hard, but where do you stop when you go down that road? Saying "No mods. Evarrrr" stops mission creep. And regarding admin stuff, I refer the honourable gentleperson to the answer I gave some posts ago - the branch of software running here has stopped being updated. Even if there were modules to update on other (to pay for) branches, the updated modules won't be making it here this side of hell freezing over.@Cassidy said:@PJH said:
And maintaining (i.e. forking and maintaining) the last free branch would take too much effort.
Erm.. yeah, I can see that point... but a tweak to a module shouldn't be that hard.. should it? Or are you saying that module changes aren't swappable via some admin page?
The mental grunt is still there. But, seriously - can you imagine the regulars on here collaborating on such a project? Even looking at the mod's list (surprise! there's 17 of us!) there's only probably about two on that list that I could work with for an extended period of time on a voluntary project (based mainly on posting history on here and off-board communications.) [It wouldn't surprise me to find that the feeling wouldn't be mutual. ]That group could probably extend to about 4, possibly 5 if you include non-mods.@PJH said:
Suggestions for ....
I recall a discussion (back when I was a lurker) about there being enough mental grunt around to be able to design and build a functioning forum and thought that would be an exciting project to watch unfold. Pity nothing became of it.
Swampy wouldn't be one of them. Discuss.
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@dhromed said:
Tags only break if there's a space in them.
Oh is that why? I didn't bother poking around with it enough to figure out which ones work and which don't apparently.
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I believe that merely removing the tag bloatfield from the thread code would solve our problems. All it would break is tag autocomplete, which is annoying anyway.
But I know I'm being a pointy-haired boss when I say things like that. "That can't be much work, can it?"
Just imagine... tags would be stored... forever
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@locallunatic said:
@dhromed said:
Tags only break if there's a space in them.
Oh is that why?
FUN FACT:
+ as space indicator breaks because it ends up at the server as an actual space and thus breaks the URL rewriting
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Rewriting CS (was Re: It's like using "||", only you get to write four extra lines of code)
@morbiuswilters said:
@Cassidy said:
I would like to hope that if it the forum software did actually go 'in-house' that that really wouldn't happen. This does, of course, presume that some sort of pre-selection happened with the people actually doing it happened.I recall a discussion (back when I was a lurker) about there being enough mental grunt around to be able to design and build a functioning forum and thought that would be an exciting project to watch unfold. Pity nothing became of it.
It would quickly become a game to see who could write the least maintainable code.
Imagine all the people using the Nagesh account contributing for example...
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@PJH said:
I would like to hope that if it the forum software did actually go 'in-house' that that really wouldn't happen.
You have far, far more faith in people here than I do.
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@dhromed said:
@locallunatic said:
@dhromed said:
Tags only break if there's a space in them.
Oh is that why?
FUN FACT:
+ as space indicator breaks because it ends up at the server as an actual space and thus breaks the URL rewriting
When you said it was spaces-only, I wondered if that was the case. Has it always behaved that way? I seem to remember tags with spaces used to work (because I would search for my own tags sometimes..)
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It could be worse. We could be using Google Groups.
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@PJH said:
The mental grunt is still there. But, seriously - can you imagine the regulars on here collaborating on such a project?
It'd be an interesting challenge, and I'd look forward to watching it all
unravelunfold.@PJH said:
(surprise! there's 17 of us!)
I probably only know of 4. I'm guessing all 17 aren't active.
@PJH said:
Swampy wouldn't be one of them. Discuss.
He'd tire of you perfect-perfects with your grepplers trying to undo his scrolling posts interspersed with random images of Rosie playing golf.
You lot just wouldn't be able to keep up.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Hmm. Let me try that again.
If it isn't leaking credit card data and acting as a spam/dos bot, don't fix it.
The forum honestly wouldn't be the same if it was anything else. I doubt there's a way to fix the tag hidden field bloat without the source code, since that's baked into .Net. With a bit of trial and error, we [i]probably[/i] could drop in a better version of the wysiwyg, since I assume it's just a javascript include. I assume. Meaning I'm probably wrong.
Think of it this way:
1) Does the forum's behaviour discourage anyone from posting who otherwise might have?
2) If so, would you even want them around-- if they can't be arsed to figure out how a textarea works after their first post?
3) If this all could be fixed and a new version installed-- how many regulars would we lose because the forum wouldn't feel like home anymore? UI and functionality changes piss people off.
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ArrivingRaptor,
Games are played at all levels and the trick is to get familiar with the players before finding out the game. Once you have made proper identification of all the players, then you can play the game.
Sorry you don't get promoted but as I see it, it is big flaw in your thinking and working style.
@ArrivingRaptor said:
@eViLegion said:
There are a lot of companies out there who have the same problems. The reality is that top management generally doesn't want to have to do anything, which is why they hire people to do it for them... the only problem is, hiring and promoting people is something that they ALSO don't want to have to do... so they farm off hiring to an HR department, which usually doesn't have enough domain knowledge to hire the right people (hence you get absolute bilge checked into source control)... and they put zero effort into picking who to promote, by *randomly* selecting the first name their subconscious mind gives them (usually the dickhead "life-and-soul of the Christmas party" guy who made sure to ply them with drinks).
Never does it cross their minds that the quiet guy who's name they cant quite remember should be promoted... mainly because they don't remember his name, but also because they themselves have lost touch with the cutting edge of technology (if they were ever in touch) and so wouldn't be able to differentiate between good code and a kick in the balls, even if presented to them side by side.This guy has it right. The only way to escape bad people is to leave. At my last job one of the (many) reasons I said "fuck this place" is that one of my coworkers spent like a month rolling his own Java mock framework (why yes, the first Google hit for "Java mock framework" is a Stack Overflow thread listing a dozen mature stable frameworks) and then got promoted*, while I churn out a code update that fixed a flaw** so legitimately high-priority that it got its own special release*** and I get the managerial equivalent of a pat on the head at the next project-wide meeting.
* Technically he got promoted because the top Project Manager asked if anyone would do a client's pet project involving Active Directory and he volunteered for it despite not knowing anything about Active Directory. Considering he was a huge Not Invented Here guy, I'd bet his solution could have been done in a quarter of the time with two or three carefully-worded Google searches.
** System analyst whose design contained the original flaw? Promoted.
*** I even got it done in within project milestones, which is impressive since I estimated double the time to my manager and he cut that estimate in half because of how high-priority it was (as in people not getting paid).
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@eViLegion said:
It depends what you mean by escape...
This almost seems off-topic now, but anyway, thanks for taking the time to write that enormous post dude. I had spent an entire week tracking down and fixing bugs resulting from my colleagues' newfound courage to simply commit their changes without so much as a minute of cursory testing. I was ready to hurt something.
Seriously though, how does one deal with a situation where your colleagues, including senior colleagues, are simply not bothering to test their work? We have a process where developer work gets tested by other developers and then QA before it's shipped, and many of the people I work with are starting to skip their own testing process entirely. Two weeks ago, I actually had to send something back to the original developer because it had a syntax error in it.
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@GNU Pepper said:
though, how does one deal with a situation where your colleagues, including senior colleagues, are simply not bothering to test their work?
Public humiliation. Start with:
To: lazyTwat
CC: lazyTwatsCollegues, lazyTwatsBoss
It would appear that your last check-in of $PROGRAM contains some syntax errors which some cursory testing would have exposed. Please fix it and let me know when you've checked it back in.
And work up from there
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We have a "digit menu" which is a list of fucked up things that are not allowed and grounds for public humiliation, and removal of one or more digits from your fingers. It's a piece of paper tacked to the board, accompanied by a photo of a fireworks accident.
Of course, a thing like that has no effect (or might even backfire!) if the culture isn't one of programmer craftsmen trying to write better code.
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@dhromed said:
We have a "digit menu" which is a list of fucked up things that are not allowed and grounds for public humiliation, and removal of one or more digits from your fingers. It's a piece of paper tacked to the board, accompanied by a photo of a fireworks accident.
Of course, a thing like that has no effect (or might even backfire!) if the culture isn't one of programmer craftsmen trying to write better code.
Wow, I'm surprised how common this is. At an old job I told the programmers under me that I'd use a hammer to smash one finger for each bug they checked in, and then they'd have to fix the bug with mangled fingers.
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@morbiuswilters said:
At an old job I told the programmers under me that I'd use a hammer to smash one finger for each bug they checked in, and then they'd have to fix the bug with mangled fingers.
Awesome!
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@GNU Pepper said:
Seriously though, how does one deal with a situation where your colleagues, including senior colleagues, are simply not bothering to test their work?
A friend contemplated a BlakeyScream about not being committed to quality, but he'd relaxed when the major incident review came around.
In a packed meeting he calmly spoke aloud how disgusted he was that this company expects their customers to accept products of such poor quality, and how the company's reputation - and potential of future contracts - will be tainted because they are unwilling to expend any effort in establishing what flaws could possibly exist in their products and yet seem completely shocked when their paying customers discover the flaw first.
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Just loving the latest Blakeyrat sig ...
"MY BITCHING BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER"
In the same way a motorway pile-up or a run-over dog might bring people together
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@Cassidy said:
A friend contemplated a BlakeyScream about not being committed to quality, but he'd relaxed when the major incident review came around.
In a packed meeting he calmly spoke aloud how disgusted he was that this company expects their customers to accept products of such poor quality, and how the company's reputation - and potential of future contracts - will be tainted because they are unwilling to expend any effort in establishing what flaws could possibly exist in their products and yet seem completely shocked when their paying customers discover the flaw first.
But don't forget TDWTF Commandment IV: Blakey's a troll and a commitment to quality is a secondary concern to nerds amusing themselves by re-inventing the wheel. Software companies exist solely so programmers can spend time contributing to Go.
