Aviation Antipatterns Thread
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Thank you CNN...
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@dcon yeah, what else would you expect from boeing these days. Back when boeing delivered real quality their planes didn't care about pesky details like fuel in their tanks, they just kept flying.
or has "trying to fly without fuel" always been an antipattern for jet planes? Don't know, I am not into planes so much...
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@robo2 said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
or has "trying to fly without fuel" always been an antipattern for jet planes? Don't know, I am not into planes so much...
I'd say it's more of an antipattern for pilots.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyJdZfJAnHs
… ATC is sure messing up more and more often. Especially the first incident mentioned, from JFK, where the intrusion was only spotted by the Swiss 17K crew, was really bad.
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@robo2 said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
or has "trying to fly without fuel" always been an antipattern for jet planes? Don't know, I am not into planes so much..
Since this Developing Story from CNN is already 10 years old: yes.
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@dcon the Programming Confessions thread is
, though I'm not quite sure how 
-y the situation has to be for this to be a confession:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u88OZrltEFs
Your call is important to us. Did you know? You can get faster support by going to our website, www dot...
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@Zerosquare The video title is a tiny bit misleading. It makes it seem like the controller is blowing off the emergency aircraft. In fact, the pilot asked for a delay while they prepared for landing. However, the controller provided it in the form of "fly the published hold", rather than the "delay vectors" the pilot asked for, which was more work for the already busy pilots in a stressful situation. Not too much more work, though, or the pilot would have simply said "unable", and the controller would (presumably) have complied with the original request.
Also, the question about declaring an emergency may have been due to the controller not having heard the pilot's original mayday call. It's not obvious in the recording, but someone else was transmitting at the same time when the pilot was making the call (possibly the controller), so the controller might have been unable to hear it.
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@HardwareGeek I would add that the hold appears to double as a procedure turn to align with the approach course in this case, that is any aircraft arriving from that direction has to enter the hold anyway. That might be the reason the controller expected the pilots to expect it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyJdZfJAnHs
Things seem to be getting scary!
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@Tsaukpaetra Yup. ATC has made some serious mistakes recently, and Juan did a good job of explaining it. If it is indeed a sign of a bigger trend toward sloppiness, people are going to die.
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@HardwareGeek said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra Yup. ATC has made some serious mistakes recently, and Juan did a good job of explaining it. If it is indeed a sign of a bigger trend toward sloppiness, people are going to die.
Hope it improves by 11 months when I next plan to travel.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
Hope it improves by 11 months when I next plan to travel.
For everyone's safety, make sure to choose the farthest seat from the cockpit, and don't even think of touching the entertainment system screen. The pilots have enough to deal with already, they don't need their flight computer randomly crashing or rebooting.
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@Zerosquare said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
make sure to choose
I typically save the $25 and let it auto-pick amongst the back area.
@Zerosquare said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
touching the entertainment system screen
Eh, there's never anything interesting on it anyways. I usually turn it off...
@Zerosquare said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
they don't need their flight computer randomly crashing or rebooting.
If they've been operating long enough that's a thing that tends to resolve itself.
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Oh, and definitely don't plug "that weird unmarked USB device" you found on the floor of a parking lot into a charging port "just to see what it does". Please.
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@Zerosquare said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
Oh, and definitely don't plug "that weird unmarked USB device" you found on the floor of a parking lot into a charging port "just to see what it does". Please.
Oh, I plug those into the "free charging" ports on the walls all the time!
The walls don't seem to like that...
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@HardwareGeek said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra Yup. ATC has made some serious mistakes recently, and Juan did a good job of explaining it. If it is indeed a sign of a bigger trend toward sloppiness, people are going to die.
I would say it's not really sloppiness but rather
- during the covidoom, a lot of experienced controllers left,
- so now when the traffic has fairly rapidly returned and is increasing again, they have a lot of greenhorns on staff and struggle with training them properly, and
- some DIE hiring practices may be mixed in.
All the problems are compounded by the fact air traffic control in the USA is handled by FAA, which should thus be overseeing itself and that's never a great idea.
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This didn’t have to be aviation related, it is a generic WTF but it’s specifically demonstrated by an airline so here it is.
‘They thought I was a child’: US airline repeatedly registers 101-year-old as baby
Airport staff surprised by arrival of centenarian instead of infant after American Airlines booking system errors
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@Arantor And being less than 2 years old, he won't get a seat, instead has to sit on his parents' lap...
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@Arantor ¡Viva Y2K!
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@Arantor this reminds me of a story my mother told me about some distant relative (so at that point, this might as well be an urban legend...).
An old women, 70-something years old, had an accident and was brought to the hospital. Doctors and staff thought that she had some mental issue, maybe dementia, because she kept saying that she had to get home quickly as her mother was waiting for her.
Until someone put one and one together and realised that the lady still had her mother, who was 100-something and being cared for by her daughter!
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My brother in laws mom is 70 (I think, might be 71 now) and takes care of her mom, turns 93 in May.
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Whistleblower Josh Dean of Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems has died
Joshua Dean, one of the first whistleblowers to allege Spirit AeroSystems execs had ignored manufacturing defects on the 737 MAX, died after a sudden illness.
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Passengers behaving badly:
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Austrian Airlines was hit by
Heilhail.
Hailstorm causes major damage to nose, cockpit windows of Austrian Airlines plane
An Austrian Airlines flight suffered significant damage from hail, which took off part of the airplane's nose on Sunday, the company said.
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Bo(e)ing bo(e)ing bo(e)ing bo(e)ing bo(e)ing
Take-off problems: Boeing passenger plane almost crashed due to software error
During take-off of a Boeing 737-800 in Bristol, the autothrottle system failed and the thrust was almost insufficient, reports the British regulatory authority.
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According to the AAIB, problems with the A/T on the current 737 aircraft have long been known. The manufacturer itself speaks of a system "that has a long history of annoying interruptions during take-off mode". The error history of the throttle valve contains many messages for the ASM for both throttle levers. Normally, no errors would be found during subsequent functional tests of the system.
: "Yes, we know there's a bug, but it usually goes away by itself, so CLOSED_NOREPRO
".
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According to the regulator, a newer ASM model is more robust against the power quality problems associated with power-on and power transfer events. The manufacturer is therefore recommending that all 737NG operators affected by the fault retrofit their aircraft with the newer ASM variant and the associated flight control software. In October 2021, he described a guide including a service bulletin for the replacement. However, at the time of the incident at Bristol, the aircraft was equipped with the earlier ASM model.
Sounds like they should have run Airplane Update.
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@Parody Maybe they tried, but they couldn't get it out of aeroplane mode?
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More fun with Boeing, 737 MAX is in the news again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjdveYYBOJETL;DW: "Dutch Roll" is an aerodynamic instability that occurs in all aircraft, especially swept-wing designs, like all modern jet airliners. When an aircraft rotates around the vertical axis (yaw), whether due to a rudder deflection or minor turbulence, the wing that rotates forward generates a little more lift than the other wing, so the plane rotates around its longitudinal axis (roll). The wing with greater lift also experiences more drag, causing a yaw force counter to the original yaw, but somewhat delayed from it. The plane yaws to (let's say) the right, rolls to the right, yaws to the left, rolls to the left, yaws to the right, rolls to the right, ...
The 737 (at least the pre-MAX versions) are designed so that this oscillation should die out within about 6 cycles. Further, a device called a yaw damper should apply enough rudder correction at the appropriate points of the cycle to damp it within about 1.5 cycles.
Last month, a MAX-8 experienced a "Dutch roll" that apparently was not damped within the expected number of cycles and was of sufficient intensity to cause some damage to the plane. The amount of the damage differs between reports and is still under investigation. The plane landed safely, and there were no reported injuries to crew or passengers.
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@HardwareGeek … here's corresponding
article. The damaged power control unit was a likely cause of the incident, but of course we don't yet know for sure.
I don't think Boeing redesigned this component from the previous generation though, so perhaps a quality control rather than design issue again?
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@Bulb said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
quality control rather than design issue
It's Boeing, so
?
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@HardwareGeek said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
the purpose is to damp the oscillation, not make it wet
As for the wetting, some passengers may have done that against their intent...
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The German equivalent to The Onion ran this article about a guy who built his own complete plane from collected parts that had fallen off somewhere. Apparently it's believable enough by now that the Austrian press swallowed it HUD, airline and spoiler:
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Steering a bit off topic… I saw the cutest thing at the airport. A man by himself walked out and was instantly mobbed by three kids, a woman and a baby. I’m assuming wifey, baby and three kids greeting hubby/father coming home. Haven't seen the like of it in ages.
I have a weird sound coming from my chest. It sounds like ice cracking.
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@DogsB said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
Steering a bit off topic… I saw the cutest thing at the airport. A man by himself walked out and was instantly mobbed by three kids, a woman and a baby. I’m assuming wifey, baby and three kids greeting hubby/father coming home. Haven't seen the like of it in ages.
I have a weird sound coming from my chest. It sounds like ice cracking.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
@DogsB said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
Steering a bit off topic… I saw the cutest thing at the airport. A man by himself walked out and was instantly mobbed by three kids, a woman and a baby. I’m assuming wifey, baby and three kids greeting hubby/father coming home. Haven't seen the like of it in ages.
I have a weird sound coming from my chest. It sounds like ice cracking.
Fucking new guy. Be gone devil!
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The latest highspeed trains built by Siemens for German Rails may fall apart at welding seams. So just like a Boeing on rails.
ICE 3 Neo: Der neue Zug kommt wegen Qualitätsmängel mit Verspätung
21 von 90 Zügen sind schon ausgeliefert. Doch jetzt sind während einer Qualitätsprüfung der neuen Produktion Probleme mit Schweißnähten aufgefallen. Das dürfte die Auslieferung der restlichen ICE 3 Neo ins Stocken bringen.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
So just like a Boeing on rails.
It's worse, because welding is simpler and the shapes are simpler.
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So the infamous Dan Gryder had another accident
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQhA-R2kKbo
He's in hospital, but he only seems to have a couple of bruises, so he probably will be releasing his Sunday video with his side of the story.
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@Bulb A few things are worth noting. Dan was not the Pilot in Command at the time of the accident. The plane's owner was flying the plane from the left seat (normal PIC's position); Dan was in the right seat. It had been about 6 months since the owner (or anyone else) had flown this plane, and Dan was along to help him with his proficiency/currency.
The reason for the 6-month break in flying is that the owner was doing some fairly extensive maintenance on the vintage (1936, IIRC) aircraft, and this was its first post-maintenance check-out flight.
At the very end of Juan's video, he added newly available video taken by someone on the ground. In that video, it can be clearly seen that the plane's tail wheel was not locked. This is extremely important, for reasons Juan explains at length. Since it's highly unlikely that two experienced tail-dragger pilots would miss such an important landing checklist item, it's very possible that the accident was caused by a mechanical failure in the locking mechanism.
Dan has scrapes and/or bruises on his face and forehead, so it's entirely possible he might have a minor concussion. I wouldn't be too surprised if his next video isn't until next week, but I'm just speculating wildly.
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@Bulb said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
@BernieTheBernie said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
So just like a Boeing on rails.
It's worse, because welding is simpler and the shapes are simpler.
At least they found it in QA and not after shit fell apart in production. And the person who discovered it still seems to be alive—gotta be grateful for the little things we can't take for granted.
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@HardwareGeek said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
Dan was not the Pilot in Command at the time of the accident. The plane's owner was
Yes, indeed.
Since it's highly unlikely that two experienced tail-dragger pilots would miss such an important landing checklist item, it's very possible that the accident was caused by a mechanical failure in the locking mechanism.
That's my thought as well, especially since part of the purpose of the flight was recording the proper use of checklist.
I wouldn't be too surprised if his next video isn't until next week, but I'm just speculating wildly.
Juan's video states that Dan is expected to tell the story in his next Sunday video and I suppose he states that before Dan told him.
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Arrogant Pilot LIES To Controller!
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@Bulb said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
He's in hospital, but he only seems to have a couple of bruises, so he probably will be releasing his Sunday video with his side of the story.
Update: He was released from the hospital and did a Sunday night video (actually split in recorded and live part). He has a very badly broken leg, the rest is just bruises. The other two people who were on board are still in hospital, have more broken bones, but are stable and should recover as well.
And he said he thinks the cause of the accident was a brake failure. The plane had maintenance done to the shock absorbers before the flight, so he checked the brakes during preflight, but forgot to consider that they could also check them on final approach (just check both pedals are firm on press). And that he now recommends adding that to the before-landing checklist¹.
They are sure the tail-wheel was locked on take-off, but even if it got unlocked somehow², it wouldn't cause the aircraft to swerve as hard as it did and would still be controllable if the brakes worked properly.
¹ If either pedal feels too soft, declare an emergency and divert somewhere with a very long runway, enough open space around it and with rescue services.
² He didn't talk about the locking mechanism and I thought that perhaps besides the lever being moved by accident or the control cable breaking, maybe the wheel can still spin around if unloaded and sufficiently loose; I couldn't quickly find a good drawing of it to confirm either way.
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@Bulb said in Aviation Antipatterns Thread:
He was released from the hospital and did a Sunday night video...
And he said he thinks the cause of the accident was a brake failure.
And in addition to saying that, at the end of the video, he also said one of the worst dad jokes ever.
: Do you have any extraterrestrials?
: No, we don't have any terrestrials.(Or something like that.) It was so bad, his son didn't even want to ask the question.
The plane had maintenance done to the shock absorbers before the flight, so he checked the brakes during preflight, but forgot to consider that they could also check them on final approach (just check both pedals are firm on press). And that he now recommends adding that to the before-landing checklist¹.
On the YT aviation channel I watch most often, that's already part of his landing checklist. I didn't realize it's not part of the checklist for all planes.
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https://x.com/NarineMelkumjan/status/1804507833506931086
PLEASE MIND WHEN WATCHING. AT 2:17 MINUTE MARK VIDEO FOOTAGE BECOMES RATHER INTENSE
A couple of years ago during my second aerobatic training flight of that day, on a very hot summer day, the canopy of the Extra 330LX that I was flying opened in flight and shattered. As you can see from the video, it was a challenging experience that could have been avoided if I had made a proper visual check before taking off. The canopy locking pin had never gone into the locked position, and I failed to notice it during my checks. I also made the mistake of going to the training camp right after recovering from COVID, without allowing my body enough time to fully regain strength. Additionally, flying without any eye protection made the flight even more challenging than it already was.
The flight was a distressing experience, filled with noise, breathing difficulties, and impaired visibility. It took me nearly 28 hours to fully recover my vision. Aerodynamically, I’ve experienced some buffet and controllability challenges. Probably the most difficult part was to keep the power in, thus trading my vision and breathing for kinetic energy.
Although due to all the noise it was difficult to hear what my coach was saying on the radio, one thing I’ve heard loud and clear “just keep flying”.
If you are a pilot watching this, I hope that my story serves as a cautionary tale and that you will learn from my mistakes.
I regret that it took me so long to share this video footage. It's not easy to put my vulnerabilities out there for you all to see. However, I have come to realisze how important it is to be transparent about our shortcomings and the lessons we learn along the way.
To all my fellow pilots out there, fly safe.
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