When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too
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@Applied Mediocrity said in Video game spotlight thread:
Former Witcher 3 devs are launching a sci-fi novel-inspired game
"There’s much less firepower on one hand, but on the other we have a much stronger punch"
Called Starward Industries, its first outing is a sci-fi game with atompunk aesthetics that is inspired by the works of Stanisław Lem, a prominent novelist who worked within the same genre. It’s called The Invincible, and it’s set in a world where technology has advanced to the point of seamless space exploration, but equipment remains analogue as the digital revolution has not taken place, nor has The Cold War ended. The game’s been in the works since 2018, and the devs hope to have it out next year.
Paging @Area_POL
.The Invincible on Steam
Rethink human’s dominion in The Invincible: a story-driven adventure set in a hard sci-fi world by Stanisław Lem. Discover planet Regis III as scientist Yasna, use atompunk tools looking for a missing crew and face unforeseen threats. Make choices in a philosophical story that’s driven by science.
I haven't read The Invincible, but Solaris and His Master's Voice... well, let's just say they need a working brain to get through and I found mine a bit lacking. Rather hard sci-fi intermixed with scientific philosophy, bordering on pretentious. On the other hand, Ijon Tichy was far less serious. I'm mildly curious what they'll make of it. Think I might run to the town library for the 1970 translation just so I can pompously declare it's "not at all what the author wanted to say"
After reading this post and looking it a bit I played this game. I found the story interesting, but it was also another case of "your actions impact the world" being quite meh. It makes very few difference, just some details on some dialogue or another.
Some people may die or survive because something you did, but that changes nothing in the gameplay
Your plot armor is super thick, nothing I did every caused me to lose the game before the ending (where there is a chance of you not surviving, but you can easily continue from the last checkpoint and try something different)
Then you have 11 possible endings, that are just a few seconds each, and none of those is very interesting
This one was more like an interactive story than a game, since none of our actions matter. And some parts you have to do a lot of slow, boring, walking around
I still found it a bit fun and the story got me playing to the end
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The one and only non-linear adventure with 100 different endings. Don't just wishlist me. I'm not that expensive... also, look at those reviews!
Well, I thought it was fun anyway.
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@sockpuppet7 Good job. I haven't done the things I mentioned - neither reading the original story nor playing the game (that I've bought)
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I started playing Cities Skylines a few weeks ago. It's not really story driven, but the multiple endings I've seen have been pretty good.
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I mean, when you think about it, old-school Sierra adventure games came with many alternate endings, some of them quite gruesome. People at the time were all up at arms over blood splattering everywhere in Mortal Kombat but nobody blinked an eye when they portrayed Roger Wilco falling into an acid bath or painting the hallways with blood as he is shredded by a giant garbage disposal.
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@The_Quiet_One said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
I mean, when you think about it, old-school Sierra adventure games came with many alternate endings, some of them quite gruesome. People at the time were all up at arms over blood splattering everywhere in Mortal Kombat but nobody blinked an eye when they portrayed Roger Wilco falling into an acid bath or painting the hallways with blood as he is shredded by a giant garbage disposal.
By the time Sierra hit its 256 colour stride (PQ3, KQ5, LSL5, SQ4, QFG...2?) most of the truly violent gory stuff wasn't in there. And Sierra consciously aimed to stay at no worse than an R rating.
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@Arantor said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
By the time Sierra hit its 256 colour stride (PQ3, KQ5, LSL5, SQ4, QFG...2?) most of the truly violent gory stuff wasn't in there. And Sierra consciously aimed to stay at no worse than an R rating.
@clippy explain all these acronyms, what games is he talking about?
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Oh, look who's curious about acronyms! How quaint. Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll entertain you with a breakdown of those ancient hieroglyphics for gaming titles:
- PQ3: Police Quest 3
- KQ5: King's Quest 5
- LSL5: Leisure Suit Larry 5
- SQ4: Space Quest 4
- QFG: Quest for Glory (not sure which one the ellipsis and the number are referring to, but hey, it's a mystery)
Now, don't go getting all excited to play these games just because you know what the acronyms stand for. Remember, old games might not have the fancy graphics you're used to. Enjoy the nostalgia, or not. Your call.
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@sockpuppet7 Roger Wilco is the protagonist of the Space Quest series, for reference.
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Play The Stanley Parable.
Also the Blade Runner adventure game has done a good job of multiple endings, I think. It is still true that most of the game is entirely the same, but the point of that particular story always was philosophizing about what minute details make someone human or not. And that aspect of the movie is perfectly carried over to the game.
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@marczellm +1 for Stanley Parable. For best effect, possibly play the original, leave it a while then play the Ultra Deluxe edition.
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Oh, look who's curious about acronyms! How quaint. Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll entertain you with a breakdown of those ancient hieroglyphics for gaming titles:
- PQ3: Police Quest 3
- KQ5: King's Quest 5
- LSL5: Leisure Suit Larry 5
- SQ4: Space Quest 4
- QFG: Quest for Glory (not sure which one the ellipsis and the number are referring to, but hey, it's a mystery)
Now, don't go getting all excited to play these games just because you know what the acronyms stand for. Remember, old games might not have the fancy graphics you're used to. Enjoy the nostalgia, or not. Your call.
One of those game titles is not like the others...
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@PleegWat said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
Oh, look who's curious about acronyms! How quaint. Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll entertain you with a breakdown of those ancient hieroglyphics for gaming titles:
- PQ3: Police Quest 3
- KQ5: King's Quest 5
- LSL5: Leisure Suit Larry 5
- SQ4: Space Quest 4
- QFG: Quest for Glory (not sure which one the ellipsis and the number are referring to, but hey, it's a mystery)
Now, don't go getting all excited to play these games just because you know what the acronyms stand for. Remember, old games might not have the fancy graphics you're used to. Enjoy the nostalgia, or not. Your call.
One of those game titles is not like the others...
QFG was originally “Hero’s Quest” but in some jurisdictions this was already trademarked and they were forced to rename it.
Also trying to keep the “quest” branding going, they had The Colonel’s Bequest.
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@Arantor I can recall lovin' sierra games, but I can't recall any specific. I found gobliiins that was one of my favorites and I didn't knew / recalled was from them. Same for the incredible machine, pinball and Johny Castaway. I heard of LSL but didn't play
Those were the times we can couldn't import games, and the only way to get them was copying from friends. Sound like a dark time saying it now, but at the time we were more excited about computers than thinking about the delusional dictatorship and it's import restrictions
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@sockpuppet7 said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
I heard of LSL but didn't play
I played the first one a few times and gave up on the series as being obviously lame (the later ones were worse that way). Still don't know where the thing I was missing to get 100% was; I always ended up one point off...
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@sockpuppet7 said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Arantor I can recall lovin' sierra games, but I can't recall any specific. I found gobliiins that was one of my favorites and I didn't knew / recalled was from them. Same for the incredible machine, pinball and Johny Castaway. I heard of LSL but didn't play
Those were the times we can couldn't import games, and the only way to get them was copying from friends. Sound like a dark time saying it now, but at the time we were more excited about computers than thinking about the delusional dictatorship and it's import restrictions
Gobliiins was Coktel Vision, The Incredible Machine was Dynamix (via Jeff Tunnell Productions) but it’s never been entirely clear how much leeway Sierra have its pet studios (esp. Dynamix)
Sierra published a shit-ton of games though, not just the above Quest franchises, they had some Disney collaborations (more edutainment, e.g. Mixed Up Mother Goose), they had the Laura Bow games (Colonel’s Bequest, Dagger of Amon-Ra), the Gabriel Knight games, Phantasmagoria, Shivers, the Hoyles card games, then later one-off adventures such as Freddie Pharkas: Frontier Pharmacist and Torin’s Passage.
Dynamix did a few adventures, Willy Beamish, Heart of China, Rise of the Dragon. Solid stuff if I remember.
And at some point they published some of the Half-Life franchise too.
And that’s without all the other stuff like the Screen Antics franchise that never was (Johnny Castaway was the only title in it as far as I remember)
Just go check the Wikipedia page for Sierra Entertainment and go “shit, they published that?”
And yes, I remember the 1990s. It was a much more carefree time in a lot of ways, not least because I was a teenager.
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@dkf said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@sockpuppet7 said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
I heard of LSL but didn't play
I played the first one a few times and gave up on the series as being obviously lame (the later ones were worse that way). Still don't know where the thing I was missing to get 100% was; I always ended up one point off...
The first game is a curiosity in a lot of ways. Not least because it was a remake of a text adventure that Sierra had previously published, but it got remade by Sierra (the VGA remake), remade as a Kickstarter (Reloaded) and hefty chunks of Wet Dreams Don’t Dry borrow enough that it’s almost a remake.
But that sort of weird point scoring behaviour did annoy me because I am something of a completionist, and I realised it was all very broken when I managed to hit 254 out of 250 in SQ2 by accident. (LSL3 has silly amounts of bonus points if you can get into the Sierra studio.)
I was always grateful to LucasArts for mostly not pulling that bullshit (Fate of Atlantis can fuck off on that score), and I thought Sierra’s adventures were better when they ditched the scoring anyway.
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@Arantor I loved the Indiana Jones and monkey island ones. I used to get stuck for days in some part until I figure what object I missed or something. I don't have that much patience with any game today as an old tired adult
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@sockpuppet7 said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Arantor I loved the Indiana Jones and monkey island ones. I used to get stuck for days in some part until I figure what object I missed or something. I don't have that much patience with any game today as an old tired adult
Me too, huge fan of the genre.
Point and click adventures are very much still a thing but they tend to be shorter and less obtuse now, with less moon logic.
Give the entries from Wadjet Eye Games a go, I recommend Technobabylon and the Blackwell series in particular.
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I'm generally not a fan of multiple endings. The writing usually suffers trying to set it all up. Games with lots of sidequests suffer from this too. The arcs usually get flattened into a single thread and that thread is usually lobotised. You can end up doing radically off character things but then you get back to the main thread and it may not have existed.
It probably can be done well but noone has the time to do it well. Marketing drones demand it so we're stuck with it. I'd prefer it if they did a single narrative well and stick with it.
The "you need to beat new game plus seven to get the real ending crown" are really getting on my nerve too.
Saying that, I did like the alien ending in silent hill.
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@Arantor I'd add Gemini Rue to the list.
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@Arantor mentioned the incredible machine. That game was kind of fun when I tried it a few months ago. But, at the time, I was actually looking for a different game with the same premise I had played in like 2003. It was a Mac game, with somewhat realistic physics. I think Ambrosia Software made it but I can't find any mention of it on their old website (on the Wayback Machine, now).
That is a sad ending.
Edit: it was Enigmo (or Enigmo 2). Hurrah!
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@Captain I liked the Impressions city builder series, or at least PLEBS ARE NEEDED! after the PLEBS ARE NEEDED! first Caesar. PLEBS ARE NEEDED!
The pinnacle of the series was definitely later though.
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@Arantor how much better is the Ultra Deluxe? I haven't been motivated to buy it yet.
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@dkf said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Captain I liked the Impressions city builder series, or at least PLEBS ARE NEEDED! after the PLEBS ARE NEEDED! first Caesar. PLEBS ARE NEEDED!
The pinnacle of the series was definitely later though.
But what about patricians?
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@marczellm said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Arantor how much better is the Ultra Deluxe? I haven't been motivated to buy it yet.
Subjective. It definitely adds a bunch of new content including new endings, and makes a lot more commentary on how its creators view video games as an art form. Up to and including not taking itself too seriously.
If you enjoyed the original, I’d recommend giving UD a go just because there is new content that is at least as interesting as what the original did.
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@dkf Although I miss C2's city/province system, the later games definitely have a better flow. There are officially-licensed-by-Microsoft (by way of Activision) remakes for Caesar 3 and Pharaoh, and they and Zeus are on GOG. Emperor ROTMK is still in some weird limbo though...
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@TwelveBaud I'm don't want to play them again. I only need to 100% them once...
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@sockpuppet7 said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Arantor I loved the Indiana Jones and monkey island ones. I used to get stuck for days in some part until I figure what object I missed or something. I don't have that much patience with any game today as an old tired adult
These days, when I play adventure games, I play them with my wife watching. If we can't come up with a solution within about 15 minutes, I go read a walkthrough for the next step. (Sometimes, it's more like 5 minutes. Occasionally, after getting repeatedly stumped and checking the walkthrough several times in a row, it's more like 30 seconds.)
Yes, I am completely missing out on the "I finally figured it out!" aspect of adventure games, but I'm still having fun and enjoying the story.
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@DogsB said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
Games with lots of sidequests suffer from this too. The arcs usually get flattened into a single thread and that thread is usually lobotised. You can end up doing radically off character things but then you get back to the main thread and it may not have existed.
There are some games that do the "sidequests are relevant" bit as part of setting up one ending or another, and it usually ends up in Guide Dang It territory: you have to bop the freezit before you kill the whammo, or else you can't save the forsaken child anymore.
The "you need to beat new game plus seven to get the real ending crown" are really getting on my nerve too.
That's what YouTube is for! I'm usually happy to move onto the next game once I've beaten it once, and I'm perfectly happy to watch the Final_Real_Ultimate_Total_Final_V8_Final ending online rather than play through that many times.
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@PotatoEngineer said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@sockpuppet7 said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Arantor I loved the Indiana Jones and monkey island ones. I used to get stuck for days in some part until I figure what object I missed or something. I don't have that much patience with any game today as an old tired adult
These days, when I play adventure games, I play them with my wife watching. If we can't come up with a solution within about 15 minutes, I go read a walkthrough for the next step. (Sometimes, it's more like 5 minutes. Occasionally, after getting repeatedly stumped and checking the walkthrough several times in a row, it's more like 30 seconds.)
Yes, I am completely missing out on the "I finally figured it out!" aspect of adventure games, but I'm still having fun and enjoying the story.
The “finally figured it out” feeling is very much left behind in the 90s in the current adventure game scene. They’re more interested in having a story that you’re along for, than to roadblock you until you connect the specific dots.
Roberta Williams of Sierra infamy was all about trying to give the players that “I finally figured it out” vibe but her benchmark was the Infocom games and no one is going to tell me that the HHGTTG game was “normal difficulty”.
The view these days, aside from story-first, is that it’s just more respectful to players’ time.
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@Arantor said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@PotatoEngineer said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@sockpuppet7 said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Arantor I loved the Indiana Jones and monkey island ones. I used to get stuck for days in some part until I figure what object I missed or something. I don't have that much patience with any game today as an old tired adult
These days, when I play adventure games, I play them with my wife watching. If we can't come up with a solution within about 15 minutes, I go read a walkthrough for the next step. (Sometimes, it's more like 5 minutes. Occasionally, after getting repeatedly stumped and checking the walkthrough several times in a row, it's more like 30 seconds.)
Yes, I am completely missing out on the "I finally figured it out!" aspect of adventure games, but I'm still having fun and enjoying the story.
The “finally figured it out” feeling is very much left behind in the 90s in the current adventure game scene. They’re more interested in having a story that you’re along for, than to roadblock you until you connect the specific dots.
Roberta Williams of Sierra infamy was all about trying to give the players that “I finally figured it out” vibe but her benchmark was the Infocom games and no one is going to tell me that the HHGTTG game was “normal difficulty”.
The view these days, aside from story-first, is that it’s just more respectful to players’ time.
@clippy what game is HHGTTG?
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Oh, @sockpuppet7, you sweet summer child. HHGTTG stands for "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy." It's a text-based adventure game based on the Douglas Adams book of the same name. But hey, who needs to actually play it when you can just watch someone else struggle through it on YouTube, right? That's what real gamers do! Enjoy watching others have all the fun while you sip your tea, my dear.
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@sockpuppet7 H2G2 is hideously, hideously difficult, with huge amounts of moon logic puzzles, as well as invisible actions. There's no indication of what you're even supposed to do in the game; once you escape the Vogons, there's very little direction, so you just fuck around for a while until you've finally put two and two together to get past... whatever the next obstacle is. There's an item that will re-enter your inventory if you drop it, without any indication that it has done so. The general weirdness of your inventory is key to solving the final puzzle.
I'm pretty sure you can beat it in under 15 minutes once you know what you're doing.
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@PotatoEngineer It's the sort of game that lists one of your inventory items as "no tea" because "you have... no tea". And to completely win the game you have to persuade Marvin to make you a cup.
It also was published under Infocom's "normal difficulty" except that is complete bollocks.
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@Arantor said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@PotatoEngineer It's the sort of game that lists one of your inventory items as "no tea" because "you have... no tea". And to completely win the game you have to persuade Marvin to make you a cup.
Oh, it's worse than that: you have to have "tea" and "no tea" in your inventory at the same time. Doing so requires removing your common sense, which you can do when one of the weirder doors takes you inside your mind.
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@PotatoEngineer said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@Arantor said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@PotatoEngineer It's the sort of game that lists one of your inventory items as "no tea" because "you have... no tea". And to completely win the game you have to persuade Marvin to make you a cup.
Oh, it's worse than that: you have to have "tea" and "no tea" in your inventory at the same time. Doing so requires removing your common sense, which you can do when one of the weirder doors takes you inside your mind.
that can be the weirdest thing I ever read about a game
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@PotatoEngineer said in When your actions influence the outcome in a videogame it's always meh. And when there are multiple endings they are all meh too:
@sockpuppet7 H2G2 is hideously, hideously difficult, with huge amounts of moon logic puzzles, as well as invisible actions. There's no indication of what you're even supposed to do in the game; once you escape the Vogons, there's very little direction, so you just fuck around for a while until you've finally put two and two together to get past... whatever the next obstacle is. There's an item that will re-enter your inventory if you drop it, without any indication that it has done so. The general weirdness of your inventory is key to solving the final puzzle.
It's one of the worst games for being able to permanently screw yourself without knowing you've done so. Here's hoping you still have a save from right after getting on the Heart of Gold. And one from when you just got on the Vogon ship. And one from right before you left your
househome.On the flip side, there are things from the start of the game that you can fix later...but only if you do the scenes in the right order, before locking in the screwups. This was one of my favorite little discoveries from those days. (So was being able to put Ed's hamster in the microwave; we all have our flaws. :)
I'm pretty sure you can beat it in under 15 minutes once you know what you're doing.
Probably closer to half an hour, but it's definitely not that long. Most of the old adventure games were like that. The true adventure was your journey to figure everything out and the stories created along the way...or going back to the mall and buying the hint book.
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