I Hate Jira Because ...
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Former User (Inactive)sounds perfectly cromulent to me.
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@Luhmann said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
@JBert
There is a '[X] (Inactive)' suffix hereYeah, I think that's what we get, too.
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I Hate Jira Because …
… the Kanban board suffers from pretty bad jellypotato. It seems to affect different boards differently, but I have one that keeps scrolling up and down on it's own a lot, making it pretty painful to use.
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@Bulb that's like the main screen I use in Jira...have never seen that.
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@boomzilla considering Jira is the most configurable software in existence, with dozen mutually incompatible features for every use case, it's fairly normal to have issues nobody else can reproduce.
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@Gustav true. Generally when something weird is going on it's some rogue plugin or extension or whatever they call them.
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@boomzilla said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
@Bulb that's like the main screen I use in Jira...have never seen that.
It affects only one board for me, the other one … has a bit of jellypotato as the task cards load lazily, but not that bad.
And it looks like just some weird state that the board wandered into in my browser. Because it keeps scrolling to a specific task it shouldn't have a reason to scroll to.
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@Bulb Do you have one ticket on the board "selected" (highlighted in pale blue? If so, that ticket appears in the URL, and if you bookmark that URL (rather than the basic "nothing selected" URL for the board), it will try to select that ticket every time you launch the bookmark.
OK, yes, that's its own
...
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@Steve_The_Cynic Yes, it appears to be (have been, I've reset it since) the issue. The weird part is that that ticket remained “selected” while different tickets have been actually selected and displayed in the side-pane and the side-pane closed again, multiple times.
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I fucking hate Jira.
Real opinions from real people about a project management system which unfortunately is also real.
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@Arantor most of the ones I clicked through seemed to say a lot more about the person's organization than any software they use.
And maybe it's because we're a bit behind the latest (and have it deployed on our own AWS enclave) but I can't identify with most of the gripes about the software.
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@boomzilla Most of the ones that I clicked through said it's slow as molasses when it's forty below. Which … might have something to do with their network. In my experience it ain't fast, but it's not out of ordinary for a web app. Azure portal is worse.
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@Bulb ServiceHow pulls the same bullshit where it takes forever to load only for 90% of every page to make another AJAX call that also takes forever anyway and before you know it 20 minutes have evaporated.
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@Bulb said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
@boomzilla Most of the ones that I clicked through said it's slow as molasses when it's forty below. Which … might have something to do with their network. In my experience it ain't fast, but it's not out of ordinary for a web app. Azure portal is worse.
Yeah, if I do stuff like try to load my kanban board without any filters applied it takes forever because there are a lot of tickets. But also I suspect these people have underprovisioned hardware, again possibly because they have shitty orgs that won't spend enough money to have reasonable tools.
But I guess taking to the web to rant about software and bond with others in anger is something I can kind of understand.
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@Zenith said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
@Bulb ServiceHow pulls the same bullshit where it takes forever to load only for 90% of every page to make another AJAX call that also takes forever anyway and before you know it 20 minutes have evaporated.
This reminds me of MS bullshit where they helpfully "check" your URLs. So every time I get an email from Jira and click through, or someone shares something on Teams, I have to wait 5-10s for MS to decide that my internal server is something I should be accessing.
And then I have to laugh at the advice of, "hover over emailed links" to see where they go, because they all go to MS's bullshit disservice.
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I fucking hate Jira.
Real opinions from real people about a project management system which unfortunately is also real.
From Atlassian, the terrorist organization, ...
If we don’t kill the staff at Atlassian, they’re going to kill us.
If we don’t kill the staff at Atlassian, they’re gonna kill us.
What if we want the same issue in two projects? Then nothing is possible. But they have 1 trillion USD, they’ve been working on the system for 20 years and we paid them half a million dollars? And they can’t copy a file? Again: If we don’t kill the staff at Atlassian, they’re gonna kill us.
* backs away slowly *I see there might be a few small frustrations here and there...
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@boomzilla said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
Yeah, if I do stuff like try to load my kanban board without any filters applied it takes forever because there are a lot of tickets.
I never looked at what kind of API the board uses under the hood, but if it's pulling the tickets one by one, that's … poor design.
@boomzilla said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
But also I suspect these people have underprovisioned hardware, again possibly because they have shitty orgs that won't spend enough money to have reasonable tools.
In particular, underprovisioned internet link or network routers (the ones who have it on-prem). Or poorly designed network with too many wireless links or poorly configured QoS or something like that that adds a lot of round-trip times.
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I mean, JIRA is absolutely misused in nearly every org than uses it. Which certainly accounts for some of the frustrations. Have a huge plug-in ecosystem, guarantee extra jank.
And JIRA is ungodly inefficient for network travel. If you’re on a decent connection it’s not too bad but if you’re on sketchy net, good luck, have fun, don’t die.
We have just adopted JIRA for one project with one customer. It’s Atlassian hosted with no plugins and it has currently less than 60 tickets. It’s not fast, and breezing through the board to view those tickets fired far more network requests and traffic than it really should.
If I get bored today I might actually measure for shits and giggles.
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@Arantor said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
breezing through the board to view those tickets fired far more network requests and traffic than it really should.
That's what I suspected.
Apropos. In the last project here they used GraphQL. The point of GraphQL is supposed to be that the client can say what information it wants to get, including from related entities and stuff, and get it in one round-trip, or at least much fewer round-trips. I was quite disappointed though:
- I expected the framework (chillicream) to be able to generate most of the queries automatically given the ORM interface (entity-framework), but it did not, really.
- To be able to save round-trips, requesting properties that are foreign keys to other entities need to join and return those entities, but the interface was written so it often returned just the IDs, which defeats the purpose.
- The front-end devs had problems understanding it, though that says more about how crappy front-end devs we had (we had two totally horrible ones (in succession), one decent, but with not that much experience and for limited time only, and one decent for very small part time who had the dubious pleasure fixing up the worst shit.
- And then as the front-end devs are generally used to request the specific parts of data in the components that display them, so they can't be combined anyway.
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@Arantor linked a site in I Hate Jira Because ... that said:
Anyone that thinks otherwise needs to spend more time with FogBugz or Trello…
- Did anybody around here actually ever worked with the fabled FogBugz? Is it really better?
- While Trello has been originally written by the same people as FogBugz, it was later acquired by the people who make Jira. Does anybody know whether the later managed to fuck it up already?
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@Bulb I tried a free trial of it a long time ago. It’s certainly faster than JIRA, and doesn’t have the mountains of complexity that JIRA has.
Feels more “by programmers for programmers” than JIRA ever did. I found it fine to work with. It was a ticket tracker, it did everything I expected without getting in my face, unlike JIRA. And it was a bit more “I can add useful fields” than Trello was. (Haven’t used Trello in a while, it may have been enshittified by Atlassian by now.)
That said it looks to have been acquired and moved over to another company. Specifically, now “IgniteTech” develop it, as part of the ESW Capital Group. So, uh, enshittification probably has started to happen.
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@Arantor Hm, either way FogBugz does not appear to work any more ☹. The fogbugz.com redirects to www.fogcreek.com/fogbugz and that doesn't respond.
Or they moved it somewhere else altogether. Either way ignitetech's web is horribly slow.
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@Bulb Fog Creek rebranded as Glitch a few years ago, around the time they appear to have jettisoned FogBugz on IgniteTech.
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@Arantor Yes, I noticed (Glitch is also their last product, they seem to have sold off everything else). But I would expect the fogbugz.com domain would stay with fogbugz, but it has this nonsensical redirect.
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@Bulb fogcreek.com redirects to a fucking Medium article about their rebrand. For me, fogbugz.com goes to the relevant sales page on IgniteTech’s site.
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For almost every organisation, JIRA is equivalent of this:
when you want to drive one of these:
I mean it technically does the job of driving long cylinders into other things, it's expensive and comes with paid service teams so it must be good for driving a nail into a plank, right?
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The only thing it has been good for so far on this project is raising my blood pressure.
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@Arantor said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
JIRA is absolutely misused in nearly every org than uses it
Our workflow just sucks. At one point, we had to specifically re-assign the ticket after marking "fixed" (not that that's actually a real status for us...). At least that was fixed.
Now, to work on something marked "open", I have to "investigate", "to be fixed/resolved", "in progress". And each change requires filling out 3-6 different fields (that aren't always clearly marked as required). And often repeat the same info. ("Why is this change needed" - "Because you wrote the freakin bug") Is there an "in review" status? Nope, not for a bug (there is for a Story). Yea for consistency. But that's not Jira's fault...
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@dcon it’s not Jira’s fault except for how readily it enables this behaviour and how companies buy into the mindset for “visibility”. I totally fault Atlassian for that even if I don’t fault JIRA entirely for it.
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@Bulb said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
Glitch is also their last product,
That seems like a really bad product name...
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@dcon OTOH, there's also the Cockroach database, and surely more products with appropriate names.
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@BernieTheBernie at least CochroachDB's name seems logical: it's designed to keep on ticking despite failures wherever possible.
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@dcon said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
@Bulb said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
Glitch is also their last product,
That seems like a really bad product name...
Meanwhile Joel has part moved on and is now a co-founder at hash.ai
Make of that what you will.
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@Arantor said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
@dcon it’s not Jira’s fault except for how readily it enables this behaviour and how companies buy into the mindset for “visibility”. I totally fault Atlassian for that even if I don’t fault JIRA entirely for it.
My theory is that the real workflows used by people only bear a passing resemblance to the ones that people think they do. A badly captured process does nobody any favours.
And yes, JIRA encourages this by its design.
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@Arantor said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
Meanwhile Joel has part moved on and is now a co-founder at hash.ai
Make of that what you will.
From the name it sounds like something related to the two biggest buzzwords of the day, blockchain and AI, but it does not seem to actually be either.
I wasn't really able to quickly understand what it really is or how it really works, but it sounds like some kind of integration framework for building tool combining data and application fragments from various places. I didn't see any mention of blockchain and AI is mentioned simply as one of the fragments you can integrate with.
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Our company bought the $$$ version of Jira and it did become a bit faster (subjectively).
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@dkf said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
And yes, JIRA encourages this by its design.
I wouldn't necessarily say, "encourages this," but "facilitates this" or "makes this too easy" are definitely on the cards.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
@dkf said in I Hate Jira Because ...:
And yes, JIRA encourages this by its design.
I wouldn't necessarily say, "encourages this," but "facilitates this" or "makes this too easy" are definitely on the cards.
Atlassian absolutely encourages you to use JIRA in these ways if you can stomach any of the marketing shite they serve up.
