The Official Status Thread
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@loopback0 said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
The fact that PHP keeps getting faster (and thus they can put more clients on the same servers) has nothing whatsoever to do with it
The fact that servers keep getting faster (and thus PHP can take the credit) has nothing to do with it
PHP objectively has been getting faster on its own, separate to the hardware race; we have plenty of benchmarks both of the micro test and full scale application kind to demonstrate that the improvements, though the big enhancements have been done, and now we're experimenting with a JIT compilation model for the next step change.
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@Arantor The fact that fax machines have been getting faster and thus more barriers can be put on the same jokes...
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
PHP objectively has been getting faster on its own, separate to the hardware race; we have plenty of benchmarks both of the micro test and full scale application kind to demonstrate that the improvements, though the big enhancements have been done, and now we're experimenting with a JIT compilation model for the next step change.
Proper JIT will make a big difference, but it is... interesting to retrofit. Deriving types for everything without forcing boxing of all values is important. (Some values are naturally boxed anyway, such as strings, but boxing most numbers has a vast performance hit.)
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@dkf it certainly encourages the “declare everything with types” stuff PHP has been pushing for the last few years.
PHP at the present time just divides numbers into int and float buckets, with no more control than that, so maybe that might have to change if we’re going to get major performance improvements - the JIT hasn’t shown me radical performance enhancements yet.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Status:
Passive diagnostics unexpected refraction error on Amber LED light source under standard lighting condition environment style 3 artificial fluorescent.
Weird.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
@dkf it certainly encourages the “declare everything with types” stuff PHP has been pushing for the last few years.
That shouldn't be too necessary, providing the types are deducible from the operations that the values are used in. It takes some clever logic in the compiler (type splitting the code path and stuff like that) but it works well.
PHP at the present time just divides numbers into int and float buckets, with no more control than that, so maybe that might have to change if we’re going to get major performance improvements - the JIT hasn’t shown me radical performance enhancements yet.
There are likely two big wins possible. One of those is from having a code path that the CPU's branch predictor is happy with (JIT should get you that), and the other is from not boxing basic numeric values. I don't know PHP semantics well enough, but extracting 64-bit integer and floating point values should do very well; if you have bigints potentially, that's a mandatory-boxed path like strings, and it would be worth having something special for the overwhelmingly common fits-in-a-machine-word case.
The (experimental, not finished, not published) AOT compiler for Tcl could get over 35× acceleration for numeric code from those sorts of tricks even with no type annotations.
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Status: Why does autocarrot on this phone never fix the girst ketter?
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
The fact that PHP keeps getting faster (and thus they can put more clients on the same servers) has nothing whatsoever to do with it
It's 2023 and you can run two(!) php apps on a server without rebooting everything 10 requests. Truly the future is now.
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@kazitor said in The Official Status Thread:
@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
@dcon said in The Official Status Thread:
@hungrier said in The Official Status Thread:
@Benjamin-Hall I would just explicitly parenthesize everything anyway, to avoid that and for ease of understanding
I've gotten used to that. Because otherwise my PR fails SonarQube because of code smells.
This
if (x == 1 || y == 2)
will fail. Parenthesize everything!edit: This will fail too
if (!boolean1 || !boolean2)
. Butif (boolean1 || boolean2)
is ok.That’s complete bullshit. || binding stronger than == would be a , but I fail to come up with a way how !b1 || !b2 could even possibly be associated differently. Put that linter where it belongs, in the trash.
Left to right!
!(boolean1 || (!boolean2))
You’re welcome.
if(foo != null && (foo.equals(bar)))
I wonder how that evaluates.
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@HardwareGeek said in The Official Status Thread:
Status: I have a hundred tape measures. Why can't I find one — just one — when I need it?
My mother has at least three and left them all in the old house so she bought a fourth for the new house. I wish I thought to pack it when we came back to the old house last night.
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@DogsB said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
The fact that PHP keeps getting faster (and thus they can put more clients on the same servers) has nothing whatsoever to do with it
It's 2023 and you can run two(!) php apps on a server without rebooting everything 10 requests. Truly the future is now.
It's 2023 and I run literal dozens of PHP apps on a single server without rebooting everything... uptime easily measured in weeks depending on OS/stack patching.
I haven't measured my apps' lifetime in 'requests' since I gave up trying Node in 2010...
Living the dream, my friend, living the dream.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
uptime easily measured in weeks
@Tsaukpaetra's uptime can be measured in weeks, too. It just needs a micro prefix.
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@HardwareGeek said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
uptime easily measured in weeks
@Tsaukpaetra's uptime can be measured in weeks, too. It just needs a micro prefix.
Maybe he needs a rewrite in PHP then. It can only be an improvement.
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@DogsB said in The Official Status Thread:
It's 2023 and you can run two(!) php apps on a server without rebooting everything 10 requests.
That's what happen when you don't host web apps on Windows
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@HardwareGeek said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
uptime easily measured in weeks
@Tsaukpaetra's uptime can be measured in weeks, too. It just needs a micro prefix.
@error_bot uptime
Did the small hydragon collimator implode the VM yet?
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I have been alive for <time dateTime="PT887H1M59.505S">36 days, 23 hours, 2 minutes</time>.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
Maybe he needs a rewrite in PHP then
Stop that right now. I am not going to reboot a PHP version of @Tsaukpaetra.
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@Zerosquare said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
Maybe he needs a rewrite in PHP then
Stop that right now. I am not going to reboot a PHP version of @Tsaukpaetra.
As I understate it, the move would obfuscate the need for rebooting.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
@Zerosquare said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
Maybe he needs a rewrite in PHP then
Stop that right now. I am not going to reboot a PHP version of @Tsaukpaetra.
As I understate it, the move would obfuscate the need for rebooting.
I think you might need rebooting now. Your obfuscation seems to be understated.
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@HardwareGeek said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
@Zerosquare said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
Maybe he needs a rewrite in PHP then
Stop that right now. I am not going to reboot a PHP version of @Tsaukpaetra.
As I understate it, the move would obfuscate the need for rebooting.
I think you might need rebooting now. Your obfuscation seems to be understated.
Sorry, been playing to with he generative AI a bundle recently.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
@DogsB said in The Official Status Thread:
@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
The fact that PHP keeps getting faster (and thus they can put more clients on the same servers) has nothing whatsoever to do with it
It's 2023 and you can run two(!) php apps on a server without rebooting everything 10 requests. Truly the future is now.
It's 2023 and I run literal dozens of PHP apps on a single server without rebooting everything... uptime easily measured in weeks depending on OS/stack patching.
I haven't measured my apps' lifetime in 'requests' since I gave up trying Node in 2010...
Living the dream, my friend, living the dream.
The previous product I worked on had a UI in PHP. Lowest common denominator of supported enterprise linux versions is (checks) 5.4.16.
The new product has a UI supposedly in node, but I'm unsure if there's any actual serverside javascript in there. A lot of it is clientside and the REST APIs are in java.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Sorry, been playing to with he generative AI a bundle recently.
Even the PHP interpreter can't parse that line
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@TimeBandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Sorry, been playing to with he generative AI a bundle recently.
Even the PHP interpreter can't parse that line
Worry not, I apparently experienced a suffer minotaur case of serious brain injury. We'll be right back after this rain from our messages!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
@TimeBandit said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
Sorry, been playing to with he generative AI a bundle recently.
Even the PHP interpreter can't parse that line
Worry not, I apparently experienced a suffer minotaur case of serious brain injury. We'll be right back after this rain from our messages!
I think I understood that. Might be time for a reboot.
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Status: Something happened and I had to log in to all the Windows/Office shit again, on all devices. I literally had to enter the 2FA bullshit 7 or 8 times, and I'm not even sure there won't be more things that will ding me once I start them. The most aggressive was Mail for Mac. It popped up a notification that I need to enter Exchange credentials, and when I tried to click away the notification, because I already had eleventy other of these things pop up, it immediately popped up again. I tried that probably 5 times, nope, you enter your Exchange shit now, or else...
Fucking Microsoft, fucking O365, and fucking 2FA.
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Status: Updated Powershell. The installer told me it was copying File [1] to Directory [9] of Drive [3], which does not instill confidence. Still, it seems to be just as usable as it was before.
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It’s official, web developers have lost their fucking minds.
Writing out CSS classes is now too much work and/or too many bytes, so we’re going to replace class names with emoji.
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@dkf the video scrolls by a bit quickly to look up what CSS classes that emoji maps to.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
It’s official, web developers have lost their fucking minds.
The "news from 1995" thread is
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
It’s official, web developers have lost their fucking minds.
Writing out CSS classes is now too much work and/or too many bytes, so we’re going to replace class names with emoji.
but...
How to Contribute
Don't
This was a joke
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@loopback0 And here I hoped they finally added that notice to entire npm
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@loopback0 said in The Official Status Thread:
but...
How to Contribute
Don't
This was a joke
So was the rest of the entirety of JS, but yet here we are!
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And yet I can't help but feel like this is going to go viral and be the Next Big Thing in webdev. If nothing more than to spite DHH and his recent praise of #nobuild as a philosophy.
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@Arantor maybe but it also seems like the sort of thing that would have happened for reals already if it was going to.
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@loopback0 I dunno, Tailwind took longer to take off than I thought it would and that's every bad idea rolled into one as far as I'm concerned.
And with people losing their mind over the notion of 'actually you don't need a huge monolith build step, you don't need to minify everything, just send what you actually need on the page by way of HTTP/2 and let caching deal with the rest', it strikes me that this is exactly the sort of nonsense that will come out in response to it.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
If nothing more than to spite DHH
Googles...
Ah, yes. The vanity is palpable.
I prefer RDJ's take on this:
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@Applied-Mediocrity never go full JavaScript.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
just send what you actually need
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@topspin DHH is infamous on Tech Twitter as “that guy with shit takes” like how he migrated his entire business off cloud, off serverless and Tech Twitter lost its goddamn mind. Never mind that DHH wasn’t evangelising this for everyone, but simply “for our needs, at our scale, I can repatriate the workload to our own hardware for cheaper including having dedicated folks to manage it”. Even when this point was brought up, he was still derided as “well you should still build the app to be flexible just in case going to the cloud is a useful idea”
The latest one of his is “actually you might not need crap like webpack, did you try just turning on proper HTTP/2 and sending the code you actually need to send, which you can cache piecemeal, rather than monster blobs that are fully cache-busted”
Tech Twitter is not impressed.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
The latest one of his is “actually you might not need crap like webpack, did you try just turning on proper HTTP/2 and sending the code you actually need to send, which you can cache piecemeal, rather than monster blobs that are fully cache-busted”
Someone tried half of this idea.
It does not fare well.
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@Arantor said in The Official Status Thread:
that guy with shit takes
migrated his entire business off cloud, off serverless and Tech Twitter lost its goddamn mind.
I'm so far ahead, my stuff has never been on the cloud to begin with.
Never mind that DHH wasn’t evangelising this for everyone, but simply “for our needs, at our scale, I can repatriate the workload to our own hardware for cheaper including having dedicated folks to manage it”. Even when this point was brought up, he was still derided as “well you should still build the app to be flexible just in case going to the cloud is a useful idea”
You mean "somebody else's computer" isn't cheaper than running your own computer, once you reach a scale that you actually need the whole computer and not just a fraction of it?
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@Tsaukpaetra yes the wrong half, clearly.
DHH's example is where he's actually sending about 100 files with their own cache-bust filenames (i.e. somecomponent-1234567890abcdef.js) and they're literally just the components a given page needs. So it actually does make sense in his world.
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@topspin well, there's that, there's the fact that like half of all AWS staff are the sales and marketing folks and they have a fairly high margin too.
But there's also the fact that if you are established and in a dull market, it's not like your workload has crazy spikes and peaks/troughs (Basecamp isn't exactly going to set the world on fire, now, is it?) meaning that you can look at how much compute you actually need, provision that plus some headroom and not need to pay the premium for cloud on the off-chance you get whatever this iteration of Slashdotting is now called.
That is the one place cloud shines, right now, is where your load is so crazy spiky you can't sensibly provision except scale on demand.
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How do you write a TimerTrigger to be executed daily at 15:30 UTC?
[TimerTrigger("* 30 15 * * *")]
Oh no! The solution is
[TimerTrigger("0 30 15 * * *")]
: Et absolvo te a peccatis tuis. Amen.
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@BernieTheBernie, do you suffer from cronic pain?
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@Zecc said in The Official Status Thread:
@BernieTheBernie, do you suffer from cronic pain?
Maybe he should shift to an anacronistic job, do some COBOL maintenance instead.
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@izzion COBOL?
Don't you remember that I once upon a time had a job in health care IT?
MUMPS
be the programming language!
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