WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else
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@Tsaukpaetra Reminder: You're not just changing the name of the one folder in its parent. You're changing the master record and file name record in the MFT for every file or directory under it, as well as rewriting the directory index for every subdirectory in the tree all the way up to the renamed directory's parent.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra Reminder: You're not just changing the name of the one folder in its parent. You're changing the master record and file name record in the MFT for every file or directory under it, as well as rewriting the directory index for every subdirectory in the tree all the way up to the renamed directory's parent.
That sounds utterly fucking insane and I would not be surprised if that was actually the truth.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
That sounds utterly fucking insane
It does.
@TwelveBaud Warum? Why would every record on disk contain the entire full name? That's utterly useless and wasteful
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I had to go read happened here. MSI put out a
BIOSfirmware update with preliminary support for the upcoming 14xxx Intel processors for compatible motherboards. This confuses something in recent Preview Windows Updates for both 10 and 11, resulting in the BSOD. Those updates have a compatibility hold now.Why only MSI?
What did Microsoft put in these updates?
Why do people continue to install Preview Windows Updates?
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@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Why do people continue to install Preview Windows Updates?
I guess some people wants to be so first with the latest they need to run the beta and test releases to have an edge. While I want to be fully up to date with my software, I go for the stable releases so at least the worst bugs will (hopefully) be ironed out.
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@Parody MSI tends to attract the Gamerz who have a habit of wanting that extra FPS or two in their games, so latest most powerfulest CPUs will typically be a thing.
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@Arantor When I built a new computer for my parents I used a MSI motherboard, just one of the cheap basic ones. Originally it just displayed a plain MSI logo but after a BIOS update it for some reason has a "MSI Gaming Series" logo at boot despite not being a gaming-branded motherboard at all. I don't think it will attract my mother into gaming, though...
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@Applied-Mediocrity Because of hard link support.
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
at least the worst bugs will (hopefully) be ironed out.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Applied-Mediocrity Because of hard link support.
But hard links have nothing to do with the file name.... (not to mention their relative position in the tree)
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Parody said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
Why do people continue to install Preview Windows Updates?
I guess some people wants to be so first with the latest they need to run the beta and test release
I used to be like that. Windows 8 cured me.
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Arantor When I built a new computer for my parents I used a MSI motherboard, just one of the cheap basic ones. Originally it just displayed a plain MSI logo but after a BIOS update it for some reason has a "MSI Gaming Series" logo at boot despite not being a gaming-branded motherboard at all. I don't think it will attract my mother into gaming, though...
Yeah, I have an MSI gaming motherboard (with an AMD processor, so this wasn't an issue). I would have rather bought a more boring one, but price+features led me to this one. At least it doesn't light up in 15 different ways.
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Arantor When I built a new computer for my parents I used a MSI motherboard, just one of the cheap basic ones. Originally it just displayed a plain MSI logo but after a BIOS update it for some reason has a "MSI Gaming Series" logo at boot despite not being a gaming-branded motherboard at all. I don't think it will attract my mother into gaming, though...
My motherboard (different brand, not MSI) has a setting in the BIOS to display a full screen logo at boot-up. There's probably something like that on your parent's computer that was reset to default when you updated the BIOS.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Applied-Mediocrity Because of hard link support.
But hard links have nothing to do with the file name.... (not to mention their relative position in the tree)
Surely hard links are file entries though?
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@Tsaukpaetra Most files have two hard links: their "one true file name" and a filename for pre-Windows 95 compatibility (short file name). However, any file can have as many hard links as you want on a volume, each with its own name, and none of them have to share any ancestors in the directory tree besides the volume root. And NTFS treats all of them equally.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra Most files have two hard links: their "one true file name" and a filename for pre-Windows 95 compatibility (short file name). However, any file can have as many hard links as you want on a volume, each with its own name, and none of them have to share any ancestors in the directory tree besides the volume root. And NTFS treats all of them equally.
Correct. Which would mean a parent directory being renamed affecting them... how?
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@Tsaukpaetra Since each link can be in any directory, all links have full paths instead of bare names. So every descendant of the directory being renamed needs their file name records updated.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
all links have full paths instead of bare names
A'ight, I'm going to need some heavy documentation. You made the claim, please prove it.
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It does feel weird, as in my experience doing it on Linux it’s pretty much instant while doing it on Windows and it takes ages (in this case at least)? Feels like there’s some fuckery going on somewhere, and Microsoft is the easier to blame for these things.
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
and Microsoft is the easier to blame
for these things.Why not stay with the general case?
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@Atazhaia said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
It does feel weird, as in my experience doing it on Linux it’s pretty much instant while doing it on Windows and it takes ages (in this case at least)? Feels like there’s some fuckery going on somewhere, and Microsoft is the easier to blame for these things.
On Linux (or any other Unix), you have the explicit concept of an inode. Everything actually works with them, except for the API. Directories are little more than a mapping from string names to inode numbers. Hard links are where you have two directory entries pointing to the same inode. Virtually all attributes are attached to the inode. The downside is that it makes things like getting notifications of changes beneath a directory quite tricky, and files simply don't know what their name is.
Windows does things a bit different. I believe that it nails a file more firmly to its primary identifier directory name, with some upsides and quite a few downsides too.
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The creator of Explorer Patcher says he has been permanently banned from three Windows-related Reddit forums, for reasons that are not clear (which seems to be pretty standard for Reddit).
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@Gern_Blaanston said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
The creator of Explorer Patcher says he has been permanently banned from three Windows-related Reddit forums, for reasons that are not clear (which seems to be pretty standard for Reddit).
Looking at the posts and responses, it appears he was banned for recommending people go get a copy of Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC and use a program to activate it without an Enterprise LTSC license. That's advocating piracy, even if it's pretty minor assuming you already had a license for Windows 7 or higher.
I don't post much on Reddit so I haven't had any issues with moderators, but I'm sure some of them can be just as bad as the Wikipedia editors.
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@Tsaukpaetra So I went to get the heavy documentation you suggested...
... and found out I was wrong. The second field of the file name record is the MFT record number of the parent directory's system information record, and the last field is the (bare) file name and extension. Neither of them change on parent directory rename operations. I do remember having to do stuff with full paths while repairing a damaged NTFS volume several years back but it must have been something else.
I apologize.
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@izzion Funny how such
unintended behavior
happens so often. I'm sure the people wasting company time, resources and especially its good standing will experience severe consequences after thorough internal investigation.
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@TwelveBaud said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I apologize.
😘 no hard feelings.
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Even though it seems to have been inconsistent as some links open in the default browser and some in Edge depending on application.
Related to that: I opened a link in Outlook on my phone and it opened the link in Edge because I have that installed on my phone too, instead of opening in the default browser.
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allow users in the European Union, as well as from Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway, to once again open all links in Windows using their default web browser
*sad noises*
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@ixvedeusi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
*sad noises*
Whenever you buy a new computer, you just drive to the nearest border, book a hotel for a few days, make sure Windows catches that you're EEA, let's you change the config for Edge, and then return home?
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@cvi
:dilbert_nickel_real_os.png:
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@topspin Linux is still free, though. What do you need your nickel for?
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@cvi keep the change.
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@cvi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@topspin Linux is still free, though. What do you need your nickel for?
To pay for rides on the horse at the checkout lanes, because that’ll be your only entertainment after seitvjing to Linux
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@izzion said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
To pay for rides on the horse at the checkout lanes, because that’ll be your only entertainment after seitvjing to Linux
That's false. You can still access WTDWTF from Linux
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@Gern_Blaanston I tried Explorer Patcher for a while (in a VM). Then one day, the start menu just failed to work. Screw it. I'll just live with the toolbar in the wrong place.
I wish "toolbar in the wrong place" was the biggest problem with Windows 11.
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@TimeBandit said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@izzion said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
To pay for rides on the horse at the checkout lanes, because that’ll be your only entertainment after seitvjing to Linux
That's false. You can still access WTDWTF from Linux
Can confirm.
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@ixvedeusi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
allow users in the European Union, as well as from Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway, to once again open all links in Windows using their default web browser
*sad noises*
The common point between Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway is that they're members of the EFTA (European Free Trade Association), of which there is also a 4th member which is... Switzerland.
So I suspect that the intent is that would benefit from this as well. Now the question is, is this an oversight by TFA (or by the MS blog that mentioned the changes), or by MS itself when coding the geolocation check?
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@remi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
The common point between Iceland, Liechtenstein, and Norway is that they're members of the EFTA (European Free Trade Association)
Also that they're members of the EEA.
@remi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
the MS blog that mentioned the changes
The MS blog mentions the EEA and Switzerland isn't a member of the EEA.
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@remi hmm, journalists or Microsoft?
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@loopback0 you me pretty good there haha.
That said, I feel EFTA might be the vehicle for which the EEA is still maintained? I don’t fucking know, the whole thing is a tangle of bureaucracy I’ve long since given up trying to understand.
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Further discussion around the whole EU/EEA/EFTA mess belongs
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
I feel EFTA might be the vehicle for which the EEA is still maintained?
Browsing the EEA page on wiki I get the feeling that EEA was (is?) intended as a way for EFTA countries to sort-of-but-not-really join the EU, but that said so we get this mess where not all EFTA countries are EEA members. But like @loopback0 said, this is best "discussed" elsewhere.
Also, thanks @loopback0 for reading TFA.
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@remi It's the "How much of an EU member do you want to be" dance many European countries are dealing with.
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@PleegWat Well, at least it's clear that given the UK's recent dance moves, if you're in the UK, you better start liking Edge.
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@cvi I solved this by not being on Windows 11 and I don’t recall being pushed into Edge for anything else but that may be an accident/good fortune.
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@cvi said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
if you're in the UK, you better start liking Edge.
They already live on the edge of Europe (both geographically and politically), so I don't think that'd make a big difference?
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 11? And nothing else:
@cvi I solved this by not being on Windows 11 and I don’t recall being pushed into Edge for anything else but that may be an accident/good fortune.
I'm on 11 and I don't remember any links opening in Edge. Even links from Settings etc open in Firefox.
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@loopback0 welcome, Earth 73 traveller.