WTF Bites
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@MrL at least you're not authoring live, behind html comments, on the prod files in use.
Yes I have done this. No I don't hope to do it again.
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@MrL at least you're not authoring live, behind html comments, on the prod files in use.
Of course not, we have database for that
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@Gribnit sadly I have that beat. My peak ugly: ssh into the prod server, patching files with nano.
Doesn’t sound so bad, right? Now consider I was using an iPad to do this.
Still sounds not like, say, the worst of the worst? Said iPad was using an iPhone hotspot over wifi.
The punchline? We were driving down the highway while I was doing this.
It’s an experience alright and fuck no I’d never do it again. But I have done it and lived to tell the tale.
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@Arantor this was before you went into PHP, then? or you're just lying about having lived through it?
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@Gribnit this was 2013, I’d been using PHP for a decade by then.
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Still sounds not like, say, the worst of the worst? Said iPad was using an iPhone hotspot over wifi.
The punchline? We were driving down the highway while I was doing this.Let's try to make it even worse.
We've already established this was PHP(sorry) Let's say, the one patching is the same person as the one driving. And the reason for having to patch like this is because the release pipeline crashed following the prod crash, à la Facebook 2021 outage.
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@aitap nope, I can’t drive so that wasn’t it. And the reason for the hot patch is because it was for a travel blog where my buddy and I were travelling and one of the functions we had was a map showing where we were/where we’d been, but the tracking functionality was busted because I didn’t test it enough before we left.
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Amazon has emailed me to advise that they’re having trouble getting money from my bank. Not my account specifically but my entire bank apparently.
And would I please add a Visa, MasterCard or AmEx card to my account? Never mind that I gave them a Visa card from my bank…
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And would I please add a Visa, MasterCard or AmEx card to my account? Never mind that I gave them a Visa card from my bank…
They probably want a Visa Credit card rather than a Visa Debit card; the former has quite a while to finish settling and that can give everyone a chance to figure out how to make the bank transfers work…
Also,
is 
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@Arantor what's it like being undead?
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@Arantor um, that smells a bit.
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end up with programs overwriting each other.
They end up doing that in Windows too.
Never happened to me a single time in my entire life. On Linux, though? ...not that often either, but still, once a year or so I have this problem. Usually related to GCC or Python.
The real proper solution is to have some kind of package format and the package manager to take care of collecting entry points
Yes. One that does each install in complete isolation from the rest of system, so that the post-install scripts don't end up doing what package managers are supposed to prevent in the first place (I'be had to clean up after borked post-install scripts more than once. Much more painful than borked Windows uninstallers.)
and most advanced, but most incompatible and thus not used, nix.
I used Nix at work. It's buggy as hell, annoying as hell, and fails to deliver on its own promises. But with a decade more of solid development work, it could become something.
Because Linux is and always has been like: https://xkcd.com/927/
Yup, and also https://xkcd.com/763/ . There's at least 3 bugs in popular programs that have been elevated to a feature status and people can't imagine Linux without them nowadays. They should be ashamed of shit-talking Windows Vista.
… but Windows isn't even in the game.
And yet, installation and uninstallation works as reliably as on Linux. Simply putting binaries and other files in a single location, unique for each app, seems to have a similar effect to a full blown package manager (which also goes wrong occasionally). Go figure.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
I'll stick to just downloading the fucking source and compiling straight
In case anyone wondered how you end up with those problems all the fucking time.
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And yet, installation and uninstallation works as reliably as on Linux. Simply putting binaries and other files in a single location, unique for each app, seems to have a similar effect to a full blown package manager (which also goes wrong occasionally). Go figure.
How does that work for libraries?
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And yet, installation and uninstallation works as reliably as on Linux. Simply putting binaries and other files in a single location, unique for each app, seems to have a similar effect to a full blown package manager (which also goes wrong occasionally). Go figure.
How does that work for libraries?
Those are kept highly organized between system, and system32.
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And yet, installation and uninstallation works as reliably as on Linux. Simply putting binaries and other files in a single location, unique for each app, seems to have a similar effect to a full blown package manager (which also goes wrong occasionally). Go figure.
How does that work for libraries?
Those are kept highly organized between system, and system32.
OK, no chance of confusion there. Two libraries per computer should be enough for everybody. If you need more, you can use HyperV.
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end up with programs overwriting each other.
They end up doing that in Windows too.
Never happened to me a single time in my entire life. On Linux, though? ...not that often either, but still, once a year or so I have this problem. Usually related to GCC or Python.
Does not happen to me. But then I don't install either GCC or Python from sources, only the official packages.
The real proper solution is to have some kind of package format and the package manager to take care of collecting entry points
Yes. One that does each install in complete isolation from the rest of system, so that the post-install scripts don't end up doing what package managers are supposed to prevent in the first place (I'be had to clean up after borked post-install scripts more than once. Much more painful than borked Windows uninstallers.)
Yes. Neither snap nor flatpack allow post-install scripts to touch anything outside the package itself.
and most advanced, but most incompatible and thus not used, nix.
I used Nix at work. It's buggy as hell, annoying as hell, and fails to deliver on its own promises. But with a decade more of solid development work, it could become something.
It's buggy → nobody uses it → nobody tests it → nobody fixes it → it stays buggy → nobody uses it …
Because Linux is and always has been like: https://xkcd.com/927/
Yup, and also https://xkcd.com/763/ . There's at least 3 bugs in popular programs that have been elevated to a feature status and people can't imagine Linux without them nowadays. They should be ashamed of shit-talking Windows Vista.
Which ones?
… but Windows isn't even in the game.
And yet, installation and uninstallation works as reliably as on Linux. Simply putting binaries and other files in a single location, unique for each app, seems to have a similar effect to a full blown package manager (which also goes wrong occasionally). Go figure.
Not in my experience. Junk accumulates in the system until something breaks.
Not that old configurations wouldn't do the same in Linux. Linux software is written to be very flexible. But for normal use most of the options make zero sense. So the distro developer cooks up a configuration that works out of the box for vast majority of cases. Unfortunately the configuration changes over time with the software, and does not always get updated correctly on upgrades. So you end up with things that work out of the box on new installs, but on the system that's been upgraded for ten years you can't get them to work because something somewhere didn't get configured and you have zero chance understanding what and where.
Windows avoid this by forcing the reinstall now and then.
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How does that work for libraries?
Putting the libraries in a location that's fixed relative to the binaries that they support works fine everywhere, as does static linking things. You end up with code duplication, but that's mostly OK; code size hasn't been dominant in most apps for a very long time now.
It's sharing libraries between not very closely related binaries that gets pitfall-laden.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
I'll stick to just downloading the fucking source and compiling straight
In case anyone wondered how you end up with those problems all the fucking time.
I mean, I tried the reasonable things first. When that fails (inevitably), stronger fists will be applied until the bodies hit the floor.
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end up with programs overwriting each other.
They end up doing that in Windows too.
Never happened to me a single time in my entire life. On Linux, though? ...not that often either, but still, once a year or so I have this problem. Usually related to GCC or Python.
Does not happen to me. But then I don't install either GCC or Python from sources, only the official packages.
It's the official packages that borked it for me. Also, the insistence on using dependencies rather than in-package copies of shared libraries made some of my programs stop working after a minor glib version update on 3 separate occasions.
Because Linux is and always has been like: https://xkcd.com/927/
Yup, and also https://xkcd.com/763/ . There's at least 3 bugs in popular programs that have been elevated to a feature status and people can't imagine Linux without them nowadays. They should be ashamed of shit-talking Windows Vista.
Which ones?
. for hidden files is the most famous. There were a few more but can't remember off the top of my head.
Windows avoid this by forcing the reinstall now and then.
Personally, I've had to make full reinstall of Linux to fix shit more times than Windows.
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@Gąska Sounds to me like you are using a rather bad Linux distribution. Because I kept upgrading several Linuxes for years and they never broke down in a major way. Even when I used Sid, well, sometimes something broke, but it was easy to revert or find the fix, and that was Sid, he's known for breaking toys, so …
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@Gąska Sounds to me like you are using a rather bad Linux distribution.
Arch, Ubuntu, Mint, Pop!_OS, and even Fedora for 15 minutes until I gave up setting up video drivers.
Unless you mean every Linux distro is bad, then I agree.
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How does that work for libraries?
Putting the libraries in a location that's fixed relative to the binaries that they support works fine everywhere, as does static linking things. You end up with code duplication, but that's mostly OK; code size hasn't been dominant in most apps for a very long time now.
It's sharing libraries between not very closely related binaries that gets pitfall-laden.
I had some software a while ago whose uninstaller didn't work because it had a corrupted version of some MSVC runtime library. Luckily, it was a common one that I had 150 other copies of, and replacing the file let the uninstaller work.
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@Tsaukpaetra huh, I tend to resort to petards and tripwires and such.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
I mean, I tried the reasonable things first.
- Nothing wrong with me
- Nothing wrong with me
- Nothing wrong with me
- Nothing wrong with me
When that fails (inevitably), stronger fists will be applied
- Something's got to give
- Something's got to give
- Something's got to give
until the bodies hit the floor.
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@Gąska Sounds to me like you are using a rather bad Linux distribution.
Arch, Ubuntu, Mint, Pop!_OS, and even Fedora for 15 minutes until I gave up setting up video drivers.
Arch moves fast and breaks things; I wouldn't trust their packaging too much. Ubuntu is decent now, but the release upgrades used to be crap. And there is a long standing joke “Debian Unstable, only ten times more stable than Fedora”. Don't know anything about the other two.
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@hungrier I can't use the first half of the checklist, it's broken, but the second half, :lemotjuste:
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@Gąska Sounds to me like you are using a rather bad Linux distribution.
Arch, Ubuntu, Mint, Pop!_OS, and even Fedora for 15 minutes until I gave up setting up video drivers.
Arch moves fast and breaks things; I wouldn't trust their packaging too much.
Ironically, it's been the MOST stable distro I've ever used. Probably because they install 90% less crap by default and don't make package customizations unless necessary. The only reason I don't use it anymore is because it's such a pain to set up after install.
Ubuntu is decent now
Ironically, I'm having many more problems with Ubuntu in recent years than in the past, and with each release (which I always clean-install) it's only getting worse.
If you keep talking about Linux I'll have enough iron to build a skyscraper.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
stronger fists will be applied until the bodies hit the floor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVcAyEMM4Cc
(Neil Cicierega - Floor Corn)
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
stronger fists will be applied until the bodies hit the floor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVcAyEMM4Cc
(Neil Cicierega - Floor Corn)Popcorn! 😂it's been quite some time since I've heard that...
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I'm having many more problems with Ubuntu in recent years than in the past, and with each release (which I always clean-install) it's only getting worse.
Hm, I've done step by step upgrades from 16.04 (that the admin preinstalled at the point it should have already been 18.04) through 18.04 and then most releases up to being now at 21.10, and the only problem was that the official upgrade script failed every time and I had to complete the upgrade the old way in aptitude.
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Well, that can't be a good sign when they dedicate a F-key alternate function to a direct line to their service department.
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How does that work for libraries?
Putting the libraries in a location that's fixed relative to the binaries that they support works fine everywhere, as does static linking things. You end up with code duplication, but that's mostly OK; code size hasn't been dominant in most apps for a very long time now.
The problem with that is that now you’re at the mercy of all of these twenty dozen apps to apply security patches to all the duplicated libraries.
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@Polygeekery said in WTF Bites:
Well, that can't be a good sign when they dedicate a F-key alternate function to a direct line to their service department.
Fucking hell, someone walked in and started talking to me and I forgot the photo.
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@Polygeekery How else are they going to up-sell the support package that's expired the day before you need support.
Edit: And from the F7/8/10/11 keys, I'm guessing Lenovo. My F8 looks a little different, but it's still the wifi enabler. (My F12 is a
, whatever that does...)editedit: I just realized my F9 looks like a tooltip, (chat popup). Maybe my F9 is the same as yours! (And in Ubuntu, it just makes a
sound)
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Edit: And from the F7/8/10/11 keys, I'm guessing Lenovo. My F8 looks a little different, but it's still the wifi enabler. (My F12 is a
, whatever that does...)I've got some different things on my work laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad with Win 10):
- F7 and F8 same functions, different icons
- F9 through F12 all seem to do jack shit, but are labeled with
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F9 through F12 all seem to do jack shit, but are labeled with
Iirc, Settings, Gate of Ganzir (Death), Disable Keyboard, and Smash That Like Button. Huh.
Updated drivers might get them working. If you fuck up the keycap even a little on the Ganzir key it'll just do some Bluetooth bullshit, or kill you, depending.
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@Gribnit Those all sound like reasonable functions, but the keys don't actually do anything and I probably don't have enough access privileges on the machine to install updated death gate drivers
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@hungrier My X1 is different. The similar one is a P15.
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@dcon nothing in the P-series ever approached X-1 speeds. I don't even remember a 15.
ed. terminal keyboard keys. not planes.
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@dcon nothing in the P-series ever approached X-1 speeds. I don't even remember a 15.
Corporate overlords. They're also the ones who won't let us get a touch screen. And we're developing touch-only embedded things.
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won't let us get a touch screen.
It's a bit annoying but mine seem to be incapable of purchasing machines without them. Can't imagine why, capacitive screens are notoriously difficult to operate with two layers of gloves on anyways...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
two layers of gloves
Considering the source, I probably don't really want to know.
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Just noticed this label on a Youtube video. And now I can't unsee it.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in WTF Bites:
Just noticed this label on a Youtube video. And now I can't unsee it.
Noticed... what? What are we seeing, for the AIs among us, of course....
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF Bites:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
two layers of gloves
Considering the source, I probably don't really want to know.
Be enlightened!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
@HardwareGeek said in WTF Bites:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
two layers of gloves
Considering the source, I probably don't really want to know.
Be enlightened!
I want double donning mandates for next covid wave.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
@HardwareGeek said in WTF Bites:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF Bites:
two layers of gloves
Considering the source, I probably don't really want to know.
Be enlightened!
I want double donning mandates for next covid wave.
I'm too tired, I read that as
dommingand seriously thought "I don't even care who takes the wheel at this point..."
