Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware)
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This strikes me as completely fanciful and rather unlikely.
Windows to become emulation layer atop Linux kernel, predicts Eric Raymond
Happening in plain sight with Proton, WSL and Edge-for-Linux, says open source advocate
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
This strikes me as completely fanciful and rather unlikely.
Happening in plain sight with Proton, WSL and Edge-for-Linux, says open source advocate
Why would anyone want to torment women who have lost their husbands even more. This is why we can’t have nice things, people.
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Anyone who has read The Old New Thing for any length of time and thus knows of the decades of compatibility hacks Microsoft has implemented to keep legacy software running will be able to tell you that this is a lost cause.
Unless the plan is to break all that software and piss off a lot of people.
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There's a typo in thread title. It should say "from", not "on"
Edit:
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A much more likely scenario is the exact opposite: People will stop installing Linux on bare metal because WSL 2 is good enough and everyone who wants to run Linux on the desktop becomes or stays a Microsoft customer.
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Lol, cucks.
I have only this somewhat rude expression, but I don't believe there's anything that better describes the situation where the overwhelming majority of contributions come from (and profit goes to) big fat corporate entities (Red Hat, SUSE, Le Goog, Intel, IBM, Microsoft - for many years now), with a sizeable number of geeky individuals allowed to think they haven't lost the keys to the kingdom, that they're winning here.
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Lol, cucks.
I have only this somewhat rude expression, but I don't believe there's anything that better describes the situation where the overwhelming majority of contributions come from (and profit goes to) big fat corporate entities (Red Hat, SUSE, Le Goog, Intel, IBM, Microsoft - for many years now), with a sizeable number of geeky individuals allowed to think they haven't lost the keys to the kingdom, that they're winning here.
Yeah, it's kind of the opposite of what happens here. MS realized they can use the cloud to create lock-in even with open source software. (That's kind of but not quite what the Affero GPL was about. RMS is always right with his predictions, just never with his solutions, and this one was particularly unworkable.)
On a similar not, is Android really still "open source"? Last I read about it it's now mostly Google proprietary stuff that you technically could replace with something barely functional OSS, but that doesn't mean the stock software everyone is running is OSS as the users claim.The original article is basically delusional. Why would they replace a mature kernel that can run a (shitty) POSIX layer and the Win32 layer they need with one that runs POSIX and put WINE on top?
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@topspin said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
The original article is basically delusional. Why would they replace a mature kernel that can run a (shitty) POSIX layer and the Win32 layer they need with one that runs POSIX and put WINE on top?
That would be almost as insane as throwing away a complete browser engine, web framework, or UI library.
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@topspin said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
On a similar not, is Android really still "open source"? Last I read about it it's now mostly Google proprietary stuff that you technically could replace with something barely functional OSS, but that doesn't mean the stock software everyone is running is OSS as the users claim.
Oh it's absolutely open source. You don't get the Play Store, or any other Google Services with AOSP, but it's a fully functional OS, capable of providing phone functions, apps, etc.
Just, you really want Play Services because it's what makes Android really actually work. Or you want an equivalent for it.
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@Zecc Zune, Windows RT, Windows Phone, Windows Mobile, Windows S-Mode, Windows on ARM. They might even make another stab at some Surface kit that only runs .NET 5 apps.
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@dfdub said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
People will stop installing Linux on bare metal because WSL 2 is good enough
Also not likely. The server market will be sticking with Linux for the foreseeable future, with Windows as at most a second-tier player; most cloud installations are not Windows (except in Azure) and HPC will not be Windows and never have been. My limited exposure to NAS devices has shown them to be Linux underneath, but I could believe there's diversity there. Mobile is almost all Unix variants (Android is a Linux variant, iOS is a Darwin variant) and likely to stay that way because of the way that app store ecosystems work. Larger embedded systems tend to run Linux if they run anything conventional at all. For industrial machinery (according to my contacts and experiences), you're mostly talking about the equivalent of embedded systems linking back to a desktop-class system that provides the user interface; they should be analysed as that.
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@dkf said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
The server market will be sticking with Linux for the foreseeable future
Like the article, I was talking about the desktop market.
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@Groaner said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Anyone who has read The Old New Thing for any length of time and thus knows of the decades of compatibility hacks Microsoft has implemented to keep legacy software running will be able to tell you that this is a lost cause.
Unless the plan is to break all that software and piss off a lot of people.
How long do we have until Excel is an electron app?
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@topspin said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Why would they replace a mature kernel that can run a (shitty) POSIX layer and the Win32 layer they need with one that runs POSIX and put WINE on top?
Maybe Linux has better virtualization support?
The ultimate backwards compatibility system would be to use virtual machines to run XP applications.
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@boomzilla said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@Groaner said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Anyone who has read The Old New Thing for any length of time and thus knows of the decades of compatibility hacks Microsoft has implemented to keep legacy software running will be able to tell you that this is a lost cause.
Unless the plan is to break all that software and piss off a lot of people.
How long do we have until Excel is an electron app?
You say that as if Excel 365 isn't already the predominant platform
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@acrow said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@topspin said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Why would they replace a mature kernel that can run a (shitty) POSIX layer and the Win32 layer they need with one that runs POSIX and put WINE on top?
Maybe Linux has better virtualization support?
The ultimate backwards compatibility system would be to use virtual machines to run XP applications.
Didn't Windows 7 come with some sort of XP VM mode? Or at least I read something like that, not sure if they actually pulled that off and it was Entreprise stuff only, or if they never delivered on it.
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@topspin It really was a thing, but only on Windows 7 Professional, Ultimate or Enterprise. It actually used Hyper-V under the hood.
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@izzion said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@boomzilla said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@Groaner said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Anyone who has read The Old New Thing for any length of time and thus knows of the decades of compatibility hacks Microsoft has implemented to keep legacy software running will be able to tell you that this is a lost cause.
Unless the plan is to break all that software and piss off a lot of people.
How long do we have until Excel is an electron app?
You say that as if Excel 365 isn't already the predominant platform
Not long ago I received a word-based form and opening it with libreoffice messed too much with the formatting. Then I signed up for office 365, and the formatting was still messed up. With the normal Word app it worked fine. What's the point of office 365 if it isn't better than the free stuff?
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@sockpuppet7 said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
What's the point of office 365 if it isn't better than the free stuff?
It makes more money for Microsoft?
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@Gurth said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@sockpuppet7 said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
What's the point of office 365 if it isn't better than the free stuff?
It makes more money for Microsoft?
Office Online is free too, at least at a basic level. (Much like Google Docs/Sheets/Slides.)
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@topspin said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@acrow said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@topspin said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Why would they replace a mature kernel that can run a (shitty) POSIX layer and the Win32 layer they need with one that runs POSIX and put WINE on top?
Maybe Linux has better virtualization support?
The ultimate backwards compatibility system would be to use virtual machines to run XP applications.
Didn't Windows 7 come with some sort of XP VM mode? Or at least I read something like that, not sure if they actually pulled that off and it was Entreprise stuff only, or if they never delivered on it.
There was an actual XP VM, which was reasonably easy to use. At the same time, though, it was a VM. with all the inconveniences that come with that. Another desktop, with only those programs that you install in the VM. File sharing. Etc..
"What would be better", I hear you asking. Well, if the VM was transparent, such that it installing programs to it would be a simple flag at installation time. And if the program's windows appear on your normal desktop. Now that'd be an XP-killer.
But it would require the XP VM to support window rendering pass-through, and mouse pointer integration, like modern OSs that play nicely with VMs. Not insurmountable, but it's actual work that someone'd need to (be willing to) pay for.
A little bit less work if things like GPU sharing are already implemented well on the host....
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@boomzilla said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@Groaner said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Anyone who has read The Old New Thing for any length of time and thus knows of the decades of compatibility hacks Microsoft has implemented to keep legacy software running will be able to tell you that this is a lost cause.
Unless the plan is to break all that software and piss off a lot of people.
How long do we have until Excel is an electron app?
I'm in two minds about this. On one hand if office moves to electron I could finally move my mother to Linux and have less windows bs in my life. OTOH I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day. We really shouldn't encourage them.
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@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
OTOH I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't
a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day.an obvious attempt to accelerate global warming by wasting countless CPU cycles and draining batteries at record speed.FTFM
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@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day
I'm running MS Teams at the workplace and it doesn't.
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@marczellm said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day
I'm running MS Teams at the workplace and it doesn't.
Oddly enough that's what I was thinking have.
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@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@boomzilla said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@Groaner said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
Anyone who has read The Old New Thing for any length of time and thus knows of the decades of compatibility hacks Microsoft has implemented to keep legacy software running will be able to tell you that this is a lost cause.
Unless the plan is to break all that software and piss off a lot of people.
How long do we have until Excel is an electron app?
I'm in two minds about this. On one hand if office moves to electron I could finally move my mother to Linux and have less windows bs in my life. OTOH I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day. We really shouldn't encourage them.
How is that any different from office in its current incarnation?
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@marczellm said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day
I'm running MS Teams at the workplace and it doesn't.
That's an electron app? Would explain why it blasts the CPU on 100% after a minute of video chat.
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@marczellm said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day
I'm running MS Teams at the workplace and it doesn't.
Discord, too. Discord restarts when I restart the PC, or click the little green
"Download Updates" button...
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@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
OTOH I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day.
Discord. VS Code.
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@loopback0 said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
@DogsB said in Dreams of widows running on Linux (and not just hardware):
OTOH I've yet to find an electron app that wasn't a buggy mess that needs restarting twice a day.
Discord. VS Code.
I'll concede VS Code. Discord the few times I've use it I thought it was garbage.
