“Just use Chrome”
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@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
you can't read it unless you're me
I can't think of anything I'd want to read badly enough to be worth that.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dfdub said in “Just use Chrome”:
But he just loves tables and hates modern CSS and accessibility and has to post it everywhere.
Don't worry. One of my tasks is to recreate this little table, but somehow make it mobile friendly...
You see, on Mobile it turns into this:
And there's no freeze-column or header, so if you scroll into the table you'll be completely lost immediately unless you go all the way to an edge.
It's... not ideal.
Does zooming out not work?
Such that you can't read it unless you're me? Sure.
So it's not a huge issue, then – just an inconvenience. A user can zoom out to see the day and time, and then zoom in on the cell matching the row and column to see what's scheduled then.
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@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dfdub said in “Just use Chrome”:
But he just loves tables and hates modern CSS and accessibility and has to post it everywhere.
Don't worry. One of my tasks is to recreate this little table, but somehow make it mobile friendly...
You see, on Mobile it turns into this:
And there's no freeze-column or header, so if you scroll into the table you'll be completely lost immediately unless you go all the way to an edge.
It's... not ideal.
Does zooming out not work?
Such that you can't read it unless you're me? Sure.
So it's not a huge issue, then – just an inconvenience. A user can zoom out to see the day and time, and then zoom in on the cell matching the row and column to see what's scheduled then.
Except that by zooming, you loose track of which row is which. It's something I HATE in table-like structures. I have to deal with it all the time with our online gradebook (except there the issue is that only so many columns are shown at once, and then it pushes the name off screen. Yeah. Our gradebook is stupid. And uses tables for layout. The two are linked, because it hasn't been updated since about 2000.
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@Zenith said in “Just use Chrome”:
Did you know you use CSS on elements that aren't DIVs? It's true! Fonts, colors, backgrounds, borders, padding, the works! […] It's just that we often don't because our aim was more of a general arrangement than strict control over pixels or client browsing.
Dude, when's the last time you looked at the CSS for a larger company website? There are usually tons of rules that have nothing to do with positioning and everything to do with pixel-perfect layout of other elements.
Also, why the fuck are you so obsessed with DIVs? The times when you needed 15 auxillary DIVs for simple positioning are long gone. Your rants have aged badly, they're stuck in 2010.
Again, this wouldn't even be an argument if DIV layouts didn't have so many holes that "just download this morning's Chrome beta" has become the new "lol idunno, reboot Windows."
Stop talking out of your ass and talk to an actual frontend developer, preferably a competent one. There is CSS and especially JS stuff that only works in the latest Chrome beta, but it has absolutely nothing to do with basic layouts, which have been working fine across all relevant browsers for quite a while.
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@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@error said in “Just use Chrome”:
I haven't had to trot this link out for a decade now, but see http://www.csszengarden.com/
That is pretty cool, but at least a few of them have text that runs off the side of the viewport or that overlaps other text.
The themes are user-generated content, so I'm not overly surprised they have bugs. The point I'm making is that, if you separate your content from your design, you can change styles without touching your content.
Note that I often work on websites with (conservatively) between one and ten thousand pages, and several dozen unique templates. Every six months or so, the designers want to change things up.
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@Zecc said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Groaner said in “Just use Chrome”:
it's pretty lit
I'm going to give you a pass as I assume you've used that expression ironically.
I'm just trying to stay hip and keep up with the lingo the younguns are using. It's quite strange, really. Instead of "pwned," they say "juked," instead of "multi-kill," they say "quad feed." Instead of "cybering," they "sext." Instead of "IM me," they say, "inbox me."
To refuse to keep up with these changes is to surrender to old age.
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@Zenith said in “Just use Chrome”:
Table based layouts work without an ever-changing dumpster fire of CSS hacks and being chained to Chrome's latest beta. You just have to be smarter about the sizes and positions of stuff instead dumping it into a pile for the browser to work out.
I remember back around 2010 how one of my coworkers was astonished to discover that relative widths magically made layouts look good in many different resolutions, when everything else said coworker had done up to that point had been done in pixel widths.
Just like my code is "unreadable" because I capitalize the first letter of names, AMIRITE?
Only to hardcore Java developers. If you don't
camelCaseall your variable names, and correctly identify all patterns used (I used to work with a guy who would put comments likeVisitor (Fowler 43)at the top of his class definitions. In a C# project, no less.), they'll be in the dark.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@ixvedeusi said in “Just use Chrome”:
all the people that loudly shout "don't use tables for layout" suddenly go eerily quiet whenever I ask for a viable alternative.
I shout "Don't use
HTMLHTTP as aUIapplication platform", but nobody listens.FTFY
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@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Yeah, I find this rule weird too. My take is 'no acronyms'.
I think
XmlReader,HttpRequest, orTcpipConnectionall look awful enough to justify the exception.
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@error said in “Just use Chrome”:
The themes are user-generated content, so I'm not overly surprised they have bugs. The point I'm making is that, if you separate your content from your design, you can change styles without touching your content.
Note that I often work on websites with (conservatively) between one and ten thousand pages, and several dozen unique templates. Every six months or so, the designers want to change things up.
And those problems were solved over a decade ago with master pages and CMSes. In theory, even if you had an awful table-based layout, you'd only need to change it on the master page(s) or templates.
Or are these websites full of thousands of distinct pages? That is, not a dozen pages that replicate thousands of articles from a CMS DB, but actual pages? In that case, your point is taken.
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@Groaner said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Yeah, I find this rule weird too. My take is 'no acronyms'.
I think
XtendablemarkuplanguageReader,HypertextransportprotocolRequest, orTransmissioncontrolprotocolinternetprotocolConnectionall look awful enough to justify the exception.FTFY.
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@bobjanova said in “Just use Chrome”:
For me the moment came when flexbox could be guaranteed on all our supported browsers - I guess this is a very similar time to grid.
Those are very powerful, almost to the point of being about 50% of the power I get in a decent native toolkit. Which means that you're fine up until the point when you want to do something a bit more complex, and then you're SOL.
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@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Acronyms are lost, because you may know what an acronym means, but other developers may not. It adds to confusion. Plus same acronyms for different things.
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer. (If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
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@Groaner said in “Just use Chrome”:
I'm just trying to stay hip and keep up with the lingo the younguns are using. It's quite strange, really. Instead of "pwned," they say "juked," instead of "multi-kill," they say "quad feed." Instead of "cybering," they "sext." Instead of "IM me," they say, "inbox me."
To refuse to keep up with these changes is to surrender to old age.
There, I surrender.
@dkf said in “Just use Chrome”:
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer.
That's domain leaking. Don't let business rules interfere with code rules.
(If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
No doc comments here, thankfully.
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@dkf said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Acronyms are lost, because you may know what an acronym means, but other developers may not. It adds to confusion. Plus same acronyms for different things.
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer. (If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
And then, after both the customer and vendor go through a couple cycles of turnover, you'll have the customer asking, "What the hell is an AXQ? Nobody here knows what it means." And the vendor won't know either, beyond being able to say which reports show it, or that they don't send emails to AXQs of
B38.SQL Server supports 128-character object names for what I think is a very good reason.
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@Groaner said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dkf said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Acronyms are lost, because you may know what an acronym means, but other developers may not. It adds to confusion. Plus same acronyms for different things.
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer. (If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
And then, after both the customer and vendor go through a couple cycles of turnover, you'll have the customer asking, "What the hell is an AXQ? Nobody here knows what it means." And the vendor won't know either, beyond being able to say which reports show it, or that they don't send emails to AXQs of
B38.But that's regarding terminology specific to a given customer, not to a specific domain. I'm guessing EBITDA would be familiar to most (at least English-speaking) accountants, and the term isn't specific to,. say, Crowe LLP.
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@dkf said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Acronyms are lost, because you may know what an acronym means, but other developers may not. It adds to confusion. Plus same acronyms for different things.
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer. (If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
Programmers flit between industries or are otherwise less than knowledgeable about domain specific terms. I've been in the payment processing industry for a little over a year, and I'm still coming into regular contact with TLAs I vaguely recognise but don't remember, or don't know at all. If I'm writing new code that uses them I always write it out in full
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@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Same things should look the same
Different things should look differentCan your IDE do colors?
Edit:
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@Gąska said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Same things should look the same
Different things should look differentCan your IDE do colors?
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@Tsaukpaetra you get what you deserve.
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@Gąska said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra you get what you deserve.
I still haven't had a good fucking, so I call false!
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@Benjamin-Hall said in “Just use Chrome”:
@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dfdub said in “Just use Chrome”:
But he just loves tables and hates modern CSS and accessibility and has to post it everywhere.
Don't worry. One of my tasks is to recreate this little table, but somehow make it mobile friendly...
You see, on Mobile it turns into this:
And there's no freeze-column or header, so if you scroll into the table you'll be completely lost immediately unless you go all the way to an edge.
It's... not ideal.
Does zooming out not work?
Such that you can't read it unless you're me? Sure.
So it's not a huge issue, then – just an inconvenience. A user can zoom out to see the day and time, and then zoom in on the cell matching the row and column to see what's scheduled then.
Except that by zooming, you loose track of which row is which. It's something I HATE in table-like structures. I have to deal with it all the time with our online gradebook (except there the issue is that only so many columns are shown at once, and then it pushes the name off screen. Yeah. Our gradebook is stupid. And uses tables for layout. The two are linked, because it hasn't been updated since about 2000.
AFAIK, color stripes for alternating rows is a standard feature of table styling, and that should help with tracking the rows visually. If your software isn't using that, then it's a problem with the software (and its programmers), not with tables.
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@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dkf said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Acronyms are lost, because you may know what an acronym means, but other developers may not. It adds to confusion. Plus same acronyms for different things.
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer. (If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
Programmers flit between industries or are otherwise less than knowledgeable about domain specific terms. I've been in the payment processing industry for a little over a year, and I'm still coming into regular contact with TLAs I vaguely recognise but don't remember, or don't know at all. If I'm writing new code that uses them I always write it out in full
class AutomaticTellerMachineHandler { void enterPersonalIdentificationNumber(int personalIdentificationNumber); }
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@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Benjamin-Hall said in “Just use Chrome”:
@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dfdub said in “Just use Chrome”:
But he just loves tables and hates modern CSS and accessibility and has to post it everywhere.
Don't worry. One of my tasks is to recreate this little table, but somehow make it mobile friendly...
You see, on Mobile it turns into this:
And there's no freeze-column or header, so if you scroll into the table you'll be completely lost immediately unless you go all the way to an edge.
It's... not ideal.
Does zooming out not work?
Such that you can't read it unless you're me? Sure.
So it's not a huge issue, then – just an inconvenience. A user can zoom out to see the day and time, and then zoom in on the cell matching the row and column to see what's scheduled then.
Except that by zooming, you loose track of which row is which. It's something I HATE in table-like structures. I have to deal with it all the time with our online gradebook (except there the issue is that only so many columns are shown at once, and then it pushes the name off screen. Yeah. Our gradebook is stupid. And uses tables for layout. The two are linked, because it hasn't been updated since about 2000.
AFAIK, color stripes for alternating rows is a standard feature of table styling, and that should help with tracking the rows visually. If your software isn't using that, then it's a problem with the software (and its programmers), not with tables.
Doesn't help when you need to go back and count "is this student 14 or 12?" to make sure you're reading/entering the right person's grades. Especially when looking for patterns. But the badness of my gradebook software isn't because it uses tables. It uses tables AND is awful. The two have a common root here.
This unreadably-small screenshot is of the code of the gradebook page. To get to a single entry element, I count 9 nested separate tables. 2 of which are inside the visible area of the table grid space itself. Every single interaction (other than simple text entry)--every scroll operation (because you can only fit 10 columns on screen, even if your screen is huge) requires a full page reload. Which takes a few seconds. And often fails. And when it does fail, it barfs the stack trace into the element itself, shoving the rest of the table over and including full exception names. And that's only the beginning of the badness here.
Edit: and all of the styling for those tables is in
styleattributes. Which get overriden by the ones inside. So yeah. 90% of the styling is margins and padding...which does absolutely nothing. Chrome shows them as struck out (inoperative).
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@Groaner said in “Just use Chrome”:
To refuse to keep up with these changes is to surrender to old age.
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@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
Programmers flit between industries or are otherwise less than knowledgeable about domain specific terms. I've been in the payment processing industry for a little over a year, and I'm still coming into regular contact with TLAs I vaguely recognise but don't remember, or don't know at all. If I'm writing new code that uses them I always write it out in full
Hell, I'm now in the medical device industry and I keep coming across complete words that I vaguely recognize but have no idea what they mean.
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@djls45 said in “Just use Chrome”:
color stripes for alternating rows is a standard feature of table styling
It's a nice-to-have feature in software with tables, but it's not an HTML standard. You have to add it in CSS (or Javascript
)
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@Gąska said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dkf said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Acronyms are lost, because you may know what an acronym means, but other developers may not. It adds to confusion. Plus same acronyms for different things.
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer. (If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
Programmers flit between industries or are otherwise less than knowledgeable about domain specific terms. I've been in the payment processing industry for a little over a year, and I'm still coming into regular contact with TLAs I vaguely recognise but don't remember, or don't know at all. If I'm writing new code that uses them I always write it out in full
class AutomaticTellerMachineHandler { void enterPersonalIdentificationNumber(int personalIdentificationNumber); }Cool. Now do it for ICC data including TCC, aip, dfName, tvmr, tavn, iad, IAC, TCC (a different TCC to the earlier one. Both sometimes use the acronym depending on context), Cid, cvmr, ATC and a second iad
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@Jaloopa I have a gut feeling that writing these in full would be just as informative as the acronyms. Name conflicts aside - the only real solution is a glossary of terms.
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For the past 3 years, I've been on a team and working with a codebase that both frequently use the acronym MAA for accounts.
This week I found out what it stands for.
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@error at one company, it took me over a year to find someone who knows what the project name expands to. And no, it wasn't a backronym.
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@Gąska said in “Just use Chrome”:
@error at one company, it took me over a year to find someone who knows what the project name expands to. And no, it wasn't a backronym.
I worked with a BA who actively fought to get us to adopt the acronym NUNS for aNonymizedproductname Update Notification System.
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@error said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Gąska said in “Just use Chrome”:
@error at one company, it took me over a year to find someone who knows what the project name expands to. And no, it wasn't a backronym.
I worked with a BA
Heh.
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Alternative joke:
@error said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Gąska said in “Just use Chrome”:
@error at one company, it took me over a year to find someone who knows what the project name expands to. And no, it wasn't a backronym.
I worked with a BA who actively fought to get us to adopt the acronym NUNS for aNonymizedproductname Update Notification System.
You should've gone for it. Imagine the status meetings: "I've done a lot of cleanup work after I found some bugs in NUNS backend."
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@Zenith Also, it's not simply a matter of being anti-CSS. I actually like the idea of CSS. No, it was when they coupled it with DIVs and started crusading against tables (and other legacy tags) that I took a dim view of it. They outright failed to consider why people used tables for layout and then doubled down on their arrogance with a neverending chorus of "you don't need..." for almost 20 years. What happened was that many downstream developers simply gave up and accepted the limitations placed on them by incompetent upstream developers fiddling with browser UIs or sitting on "standards" committees. Moreover, they don't see the irony in anything they've done over that time; not the update treadmill, not the seizure of control from users, not the Chrome monoculture, none of it.
I have no doubt that part of this hideous metro/flat/material design phase we're in is because these fools are preoccupied with churning new crap on top of a foundation they have no ability or interest in fixing. They just gave up on calculating sizes correctly and replaced borders with wide margins so you can't easily tell they're off. Desktop Chrome, after 10 damned years, still can't size the inside of a table cell correctly, frequently drawing a 100x100 cell but only making 99x99 available to content. But it's the evil table tag so fuck it, right? But even in their own browser on their own OS, they have problems with DIVs and hit detection. This site is always fucked up on mobile because it pushes the toolbar offscreen and offsets the click region all over. The TD Ameritrade site has the same problem with hit detection in Chrome where menus (DIVs) and buttons (DIVs) have their click regions randomly offset.
Google and Chrome represent everything wrong with modern development.
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@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
@dkf said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Acronyms are lost, because you may know what an acronym means, but other developers may not. It adds to confusion. Plus same acronyms for different things.
This is where domain knowledge becomes critical. If everyone in the domain uses an acronym (or abbreviation) to mean exactly the same thing, you really should be using that in your code too. Yes, it means that Joe Schmoe off the street won't necessarily understand it, but matching the domain actually helps more because people who know the domain are far more likely to read the code in the first place; Joe Schmoe probably doesn't give a damn about it if it doesn't come with free beer. (If it worries you, put the expansion of the acronym in a doc comment.)
Programmers flit between industries or are otherwise less than knowledgeable about domain specific terms. I've been in the payment processing industry for a little over a year, and I'm still coming into regular contact with TLAs I vaguely recognise but don't remember, or don't know at all. If I'm writing new code that uses them I always write it out in full
A while back, while working at an insurance business, I ran into an issue involving a somewhat incongruous combination of D&D and MAGA. Neither of those referred to what a layman might guess they meant at first glance.
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@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
Cool. Now do it for ICC data including TCC, aip, dfName, tvmr, tavn, iad, IAC, TCC (a different TCC to the earlier one. Both sometimes use the acronym depending on context), Cid, cvmr, ATC and a second iad
International Color Consortium use a ton of TLAs, don't they?
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@Zecc ICC is the most common implementation of emv, obviously
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@Gąska said in “Just use Chrome”:
@MrL said in “Just use Chrome”:
Same things should look the same
Different things should look differentCan your IDE do colors?
Edit:
INB4 disability rant.
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@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Zecc ICC is the most common implementation of emv, obviously
Not just EMV, but also PIV and SIM.
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@TwelveBaud said in “Just use Chrome”:
EMV
Electro magnetic variance?
@TwelveBaud said in “Just use Chrome”:
PIV
Persistent individuality values?
@TwelveBaud said in “Just use Chrome”:
SIM
Suspicious interrogation machine!
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@Groaner said in “Just use Chrome”:
And then, after both the customer and vendor go through a couple cycles of turnover, you'll have the customer asking, "What the hell is an AXQ? Nobody here knows what it means." And the vendor won't know either, beyond being able to say which reports show it, or that they don't send emails to AXQs of
B38.Making a glossary is good. Encoding the fucking glossary on every line of code you write… is just verbose and annoying.
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@TwelveBaud said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Zecc ICC is the most common implementation of emv, obviously
Not just EMV, but also PIV and SIM.
I know PIV, but can't figure out the rest of them. Something out of the lifestyle thread?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in “Just use Chrome”:
Electro magnetic variance?
Europay/Mastercard/Visa, the three major European credit card companies. They set the standard for how chip credit cards work, which they named after themselves. There's a suite of a few different ICC applications, one for each credit card company, but they all work the same way.
Persistent individuality values?
Personal Identity Verification. Successor to the US military's Common Access Card, it uses ICC to hold four digital certificates with specific purposes and access rules. Supposedly to be used as part of a national ID card system like many European nations have, but since that's political suicide here it's mainly used for the Department of Defense, the Department of Homeland Security, and their contractors.
Suspicious interrogation machine!
Subscriber Identity Module. The main -- and unless you go to hacker conferences or live in Africa, probably only -- ICC application on the little chip in your cell phone. It used to handle storing contacts and SMS messages in addition to its other duties, but nowadays its only purpose is to hold onto the encryption/decryption keys for communicating with cell phone towers and identifying your phone number.
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@hungrier said in “Just use Chrome”:
@TwelveBaud said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Jaloopa said in “Just use Chrome”:
@Zecc ICC is the most common implementation of emv, obviously
Not just EMV, but also PIV and SIM.
I know PIV, but can't figure out the rest of them. Something out of the lifestyle thread?
Penis-In-Vagina sex is as vanilla as it comes. It doesn't need to be in that thread.
Filed under: That's a real acronym in my lexicon.
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@error said in “Just use Chrome”:
Penis-In-Vagina sex is as vanilla as it comes.
I thought about posting what (some) feminists say about PIV, but this isn't the Garage.
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@HardwareGeek said in “Just use Chrome”:
@error said in “Just use Chrome”:
Penis-In-Vagina sex is as vanilla as it comes.
I thought about posting what (some) feminists say about PIV, but this isn't the Garage.
I find it remarkable how many feminists I've met who have CNC (consensual non-consent, i.e. rape simulation) or humiliation/degradation fetishes.
