League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel
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/dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver - League of Legends
We’re protecting some of Riot’s upcoming games with new anti-cheat systems.
How do the kind of people who know enough about kernel development to make this kind of thing but simultaneously not know enough about operating system kernels to know how absolutely terrible this idea is?
Sure, there are a lot of antivirus programs out there that provide extra vulnerability surface for all the malware to latch onto, but starting writing a vulnerability surface extender now?
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@ben_lubar I don't see Linux mentioned anywhere in this article. Have I missed something, or is it just the
/dev/nullthingy in the title?
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@strangeways The article basically mentions Windows constantly... I'm reasonably sure that they're not talking about Linux.
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your legitimate copy of WinRAR
LOL
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@strangeways said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@ben_lubar I don't see Linux mentioned anywhere in this article. Have I missed something, or is it just the
/dev/nullthingy in the title?why does the development blog for a company that has zero linux titles have a linux-themed name
probably because it's the same kind of people who would do this
or, as another example,
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@ben_lubar said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
why does the development blog for a company that has zero linux titles have a linux-themed name
I once read something about this on a site called The Daily WTF:
The /etc/bus
Back in the early 90's, Steve worked at a certain blue company known for its putty colored machines that cost a lot of green. This company was trying to make a big splash for itself in the UNIX market and wanted to convince technical folks that they "got it." And Steve had just the idea to help...
TL;DR: The answer is marketing. Because it sounded cool in someone's head.
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@boomzilla said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
your legitimate copy of WinRAR
LOL
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This isn’t giving us any surveillance capability we didn’t already have.
LICE, EVERY DAY MORE LICE! BOR GULLET!
It gives you SYSTEM, while presently you probably didn't even have Administrator.All it does is makes me even less inclined to ever play any of these multiswindler omlaim games.
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@ben_lubar said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
Sure, there are a lot of antivirus programs out there that provide extra vulnerability surface for all the malware to latch onto, but starting writing a vulnerability surface extender now?
You're years late to this, they don't even do it illegally / secretly:
Side note, he's got this picture that I've seen everywhere since I can remember:
But does anything actually work like that? From what I can tell, every major OS in the last 30 years (probably longer) just used rings 0 and 3.
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@topspin said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
But does anything actually work like that? From what I can tell, every major OS in the last 30 years (probably longer) just used rings 0 and 3.
Certainly none I've heard about. The only places I've seen rings 1 and 2 actually used are OSDev forums where some brave people actually try leveraging these for the fun of it.
I don't think even Silberschatz's "Operating System Concepts" mentions rings 1 and 2 used by any of the OSes that it describes, but my memory might be failing me on this.
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@JBert said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@ben_lubar said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
why does the development blog for a company that has zero linux titles have a linux-themed name
I once read something about this on a site called The Daily WTF:
Back in the early 90's, Steve worked at a certain blue company known for its putty colored machines that cost a lot of green. This company was trying to make a big splash for itself in the UNIX market and wanted to convince technical folks that they "got it." And Steve had just the idea to help...
You must go back here a long ways. (Or maybe it was featured in Classic WTF's.) etc/bus was meant to be a cute joke - would UNIX geeks really be aghast by the kinds of details described in the article?
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@levicki I'm pretty sure x86 processors go all the way to -3 because they have a processor inside a processor with its own OS and a bunch of "security extensions" and who knows what else.
I genuinely don't even want to think about it. The abuse potential is more than I can process.
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@topspin said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@boomzilla said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
your legitimate copy of WinRAR
LOL
IIRC in a much later comic they do in fact end up getting married....
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One more reason to play on consoles.
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@JBert said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@ben_lubar said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
why does the development blog for a company that has zero linux titles have a linux-themed name
I once read something about this on a site called The Daily WTF:
Back in the early 90's, Steve worked at a certain blue company known for its putty colored machines that cost a lot of green. This company was trying to make a big splash for itself in the UNIX market and wanted to convince technical folks that they "got it." And Steve had just the idea to help...
Seems like an interesting site – where'd you find it?
Anyway, reading the comments…
I swear that wasn't me. ('cause that's not how you spell Rhamphorhynchus!)
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@jinpa said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
You must go back here a long ways. (Or maybe it was featured in Classic WTF's.)
On the off chance you're one of today's lucky 10,000, may I present to you the infamously brill
iant Paula Bean:
Heidi S and Michael Hanson's employer was building an enterprise shipping/warehousing system but didn't have enough in-house resources to do it. One of the contractors they brought in to help fill the gaps was Paula, an "experienced Java programmer with strong knowledge of the shipping industry."...
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@kazitor said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
'cause that's not how you spell Rhamphorhynchus
it's also not how you spell et
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@ben_lubar said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
How do the kind of people who know enough about kernel development to make this kind of thing but simultaneously not know enough about operating system kernels to know how absolutely terrible this idea is?
Unexpected token
?on line 1.
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@anonymous234 said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
because they have a processor inside a processor
That's the EC, and afaik it's not in the CPU -- it's in the chipset.
Filed under: Microcode
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@ben_lubar said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@kazitor said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
'cause that's not how you spell Rhamphorhynchus
it's also not how you spell et
Also ET said "phone home", not "Rhamphorhynchus".
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
the downvote I got
Wasn't me.
@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
They said "CPU inside a CPU with its own OS" (I omitted that part of the quote when replying).
Filed under Minix?
Edit: Fine, it's technically not running in the main CPU, but the concept is there.
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@Tsaukpaetra said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
Filed under Minix?
That's ME, and it's also in the chipset, not in the CPU. It is also a distinct thing from the EC I mentioned before.
So now there's CPUs talking to other CPUs overriding the REAL CPUs that manage the other CPUs and... Fuck, these rings are getting complicated!
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@Tsaukpaetra said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
So now there's CPUs talking to other CPUs overriding the REAL CPUs that manage the other CPUs and... Fuck, these rings are getting complicated!
kind of like wedding rings, no?
Not really, no.
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@Tsaukpaetra said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
Not really, no.
According to the stories I hear from married men, there is a lot of overriding going on once you put those on.
That actually has little to do with the rings themselves. Correlation is not causation, after all...
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@Tsaukpaetra said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
That actually has little to do with the rings themselves.
Actually, I heard putting a wedding ring on is like entering Ring 3 from Ring 0. You are not
your ownanyone's supervisor anymore.I guess I'll find out. Eventually...
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
I really don't understand the downvote I got.
i've said it once, and i'll say it again....
the sooner you let those go and just start ignoring them entirely the sooner you'll be happier here.
here. i'll help.
put this in your Custom CSS setting in your settings here:
span.votes span { display: none; }now those pesky downvotes will no longer trouble you.
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To summarize:
- Riot is going to fuck around with Windows kernel space/drivers because some other guy did it first.
- They seem to be naming their anti-cheat thing "/dev/null", as this is the most descriptive name possible and will not confuse anybody ever and is eminently googleable if you're wondering what that thing running on your Windows machine is.
- @ben_lubar uses more than 4 words in a post, and somehow manages to fit "Linux kernel" into the writing budget, which makes the whole situation way more clear.
Anybody know if the cheat producing community already moved on to hypervisors (ring -1 or whatever)? (Next up: /dev/kmem, the LoL hypervisor)
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@Tsaukpaetra said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
Filed under: Microcode
I really don't understand the downvote I got. What I said is factually correct.
Maybe someone's butthurt. Don't worry about it.
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@topspin LOL. Called it!
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I just want to see the fighting game these guys are working on.
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@Magus said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
I just want to see the fighting game these guys are working on.
i think you misunderstand. it's not a fighting game where players fight each other. it's a fighting game where the game fights the players.... and because the game sets the rules of the fight it always wins.
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@Vixen but see, that's the kind of game my friends and I like best!
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@topspin said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
LOL. Called it!
Seems like you have to make that sometwo butthurt people even.
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
really don't understand the downvote I got.
You've annoyed someone enough that (probably) he/she/xe automatically downvotes everything you post without even reading it or has written a script to do that for him/her/xir.
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@HardwareGeek said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
You've annoyed someone enough that (probably) he/she/xe automatically downvotes everything you post without even reading it or has written a script to do that for him/her/xir.
Filed under: Really-mature-and-totally-not-butthurt behaviour.
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@cvi said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
Filed under: Really-mature-and-totally-not-butthurt behaviour.
YMBNH
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@levicki The Wrong Acronym Thread is only one link away
But just in case you really want to know rather than joking (
), it stands for "You MightMust Be New Here".
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@levicki said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
@JBert I know already, it was a joke inspired by that other thread.
What I don't know is what is a proper use for
, it comes without manual.I could tell you, but
EDIT: Have a link to an older explanation though
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@topspin said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
But does anything actually work like that? From what I can tell, every major OS in the last 30 years (probably longer) just used rings 0 and 3.
No, they use a bunch more rings than are even listed here. It's mostly the hardware guys though. And maybe some aspects of high security stuff.
In ways that the chip designers don't understand. This leads to a LOT of undefined behavior. Typically this okay, stuff "just works" but sometimes... you get shit like slowloris.
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@cvi said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
- They seem to be naming their anti-cheat thing "/dev/null", as this is the most descriptive name possible and will not confuse anybody ever and is eminently googleable if you're wondering what that thing running on your Windows machine is.
"/dev/null" is the name of their dev blog, not the name of their anti-cheat module. They didn't provide a name for the latter.
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@Magus said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
I just want to see the fighting game these guys are working on.
There's a lot of videos on YouTube of people playing it.
Or you can download and play it yourself. It is free-to-play with their income coming from completely optional purchases of in-game cosmetics.
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@djls45 I hadn't heard it was out yet.
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@djls45 okay yeah, they haven't even decided on the name of the fighting game yet, and have only seconds of gameplay released in video form.
Hoping it's good, but it's possibly still a long way out.
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Oh, well. I'm happy I don't play LoL. I am involved in some LoL stuff but not playing it myself thankfully, and this just gives me more reasons to to. There is however a picture of me proudly holding a trophy for winning a LoL tournament that I should ask the photographer for at some point...
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@Magus Oh, you meant "Project L"...
I don't follow LoL news that closely, so I didn't know they were working on one until I just googled "lol fighting game".I meant the MOBA. I play that and the auto-chess variant (TFT), and I'm on the open beta for the card game.
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@Atazhaia said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
a picture of me proudly holding a trophy for winning a LoL tournament
So either you used to play (and fairly well) or you were a non-playing member of a team (coach?) that won or you were holding one just because you could, and not because you actually won.
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@djls45 Non-playing member (general support). Was given the trophy to hold while the team was doing interviews and stuff.
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@topspin said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
But does anything actually work like that? From what I can tell, every major OS in the last 30 years (probably longer) just used rings 0 and 3.
Depends if you think that OS/2 (it also used Ring 2) is (a) a major OS and (b) in the last 30 years. (OS/2 Warp certainly meets the second criterion.)
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@JBert said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
But just in case you really want to know rather than joking
tdemsyr
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@djls45 said in League of Legends decides to fuck up the Linux kernel:
It is free-to-play
free to play it may be and..... well League of Legends has managed to keep their promise of cosmetic only so far but..... at this point i've seen too many games go to the dark side to trust that free to play won't turn into pay to win.....
I can't trust full price 60$ games not to have in game transactions for real world cash that make it pay to win..... the free-to-play just means that there's not that initial revenue stream from the game purchase to act as a damper on the temptation to add pay to win......
:'(
/me starts speaking in a frail, lisping voice, like her dentures have come unstuck and are shifting around in her mouth as she talks
I remember.... I remember when all this was different sonny! where games were made to be complete upon release.... where the price you paid at purchase time was what the came cost to you. when publishers weren't such greedy cunts as to assault you with mechanics purposefully designed to extract the maximum amount of cash from your wallet as possible and game play experience be damned! I remember a time when a publisher including any sort of gambling mechanic in their game, for real world money or in game money would be kicked from here to alberquerky.... albercurk.,.. al... Victoria, BC.
I REMEMBER!
/me waves cane vigorously in the air wile slowly falling forward because the cane is no longer supporting some of her weight. eventually gravity wins and she falls flat on her face
-rather mufffled- I REMEMBER!
Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal - Wikipedia
