WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@pie_flavor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If you depend on volatile system internals prone to breakage, you really don't get the right to complain when they do break.
IOW, you can't complain if you're using Windows
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And I suspect its a reasonable canary in the Win10 coal mine.
Mine is when my Fitbit stops syncing. Invariably, Windows is waiting to reboot because of updates.
Hmm....nope, last updates were 11/18. And usually the spinner mentions something about updates, doesn't it?
During shutdown, yeah. My system evidently just kills bluetooth when it's applied updates but not rebooted. (I go into the settings/update and see the pending reboot msg)
There is a large update that just came out this week...
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And I suspect its a reasonable canary in the Win10 coal mine.
Mine is when my Fitbit stops syncing. Invariably, Windows is waiting to reboot because of updates.
Hmm....nope, last updates were 11/18. And usually the spinner mentions something about updates, doesn't it?
During shutdown, yeah. My system evidently just kills bluetooth when it's applied updates but not rebooted. (I go into the settings/update and see the pending reboot msg)
There is a large update that just came out this week...
Hasn't been rolled out yet here, I guess, which isn't surprising given the thousands of machines they're responsible for. In any case, at least Windows Updates farting around forever gives me a known retard to blame. Sitting on its thumb while claiming to restart for minutes is just stupid.
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After having just completed the move to "modern" icons, Microsoft has realized that they look like shit, and are now Mozillafying them:
Microsoft unveils new Windows icons as it works to modernize apps
Microsoft is using Fluent design to modernize the look of its apps and icons across Windows. Overall, it makes the OS more consistent.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I assume the start menu thing is a symptom of something much stupider
Windows.
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
applied updates but not rebooted
AIUI, that's major nasal demon territory. Killing Bluetooth is probably one of the more benign things Windows could do.
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
it makes the OS more consistent.
If only they'd make the behavior more consistent.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I wonder how they managed writing Windows until now?
Very poorly
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Dell with a dock.
Did you ever check if there are firmware updates for that dock?
Not since...err...June. Well, technically, that's the job of corporate IT.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The way they compile and bundle Windows builds.
Is totally irrelevant if they end up 99.9999999% the same.
Is absolutely relevant if the question is CAN THEY WORK IN SEPARATION. And even more relevant to that question is the source code.
It would be like preparing your C program for a situation that stack is not writable.
You mean like when you bootstrap a CPU from read-only memory while not having a stack yet?
No, I mean being provided by the OS a stack that is non-writable.
You don't know that.
Windows Defender exists as a product since 2006.
If you are generous and give them two years for development of such a shitty product, that's still 2004 -- a year after Windows Server 2003 release, three years after Windows XP release (2001), five years after Windows 2000 (1999), and eight years since Windows NT 4 release (1996).
So Windows NT codebase and NT kernel predate Windows Defender by at least 10 years.
And refactoring doesn't exist. Windows 10 has the complete source code of XP in unchanged form, and everything they've added in the following years has a line count of no more than 11% of what they've started with. We know this is $100% legit info because some Serbian troll says so.
And I don't know, but you do. Yeah, right.
Stop making shit up. Or quote me where I said I do. Because I'm tired of repeating over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that I'm just as non-privileged as you and didn't have a chance to peek at Windows source code either.
IT'S NOT WINDOWS UPDATE'S JOB TO FIX BRICKED WINDOWS INSTALLS.
That's right, it's its job to update stuff which it fails to do, because it can't fix broken installs! It's a win-win situation!
Do you also complain when the barber refuses to make dreadlocks on your bald head? Windows Update is under no obligation to work correctly on a system that hasn't been used correctly. You have exactly zero rights to complain about it. Especially when Microsoft has released an officially supported tool that automatically solves your exact issue and you know about it.
IT'S THE JOB OF "RESET THIS PC" TO FIX BRICKED WINDOWS INSTALLS, AND YOU CAN BE DAMN SURE IT DOES FUCKING REINSTALL WINDOWS DEFENDER PROPERLY.
And remove all your non-Windows Store applications installed in the meantime in the process, yes. Very convenient way of "FIXING" a simple few packages that are missing.
As far as the tool is concerned, your system is bricked and it does everything in its power to make sure it becomes unbricked, because you asked it to unbrick your computer. It might not exactly be what you wanted, but if you want tools to do what you want, how about you STOP INTENTIONALLY RUNNING INTO UNSUPPORTED SCENARIOS?
The reason why that is still acceptable in 2019 is that people got so used to reinstalling Windows and Microsoft finally obliged and made it an official option for fixing their broken shit.
The essential component, Windows Defender, something that should never ever go missing, went missing. How does it know what else is wrong with your computer? How does it know what caused it and which unknown programs are safe to keep because they're unrelated to the issue?
The reason this is acceptable in 2019 is because this is the only way to make sure the problem is solved.
No, the other way around. It's easier to code the 300+ GB Windows codebase when Chromium is part of it.
I wonder how they managed writing Windows until now?
By having Internet Explorer in its codebase. A lot of WinAPI functions are basically aliases for starting iexplore.exe process.
Do you even stop to read your own bullshit?!?
Sure. What exactly is bullshitty about being a programmer in 2019, having seen a new module land in the latest Windows release, knowing the new module is non-uninstallable, assuming that therefore no one will ever uninstall it, and then, in the next release, write some code that implicitly relies of the guaranteed existence, and not mention it in any external documentation because it's just an implementation detail that can change at any moment and thus the external documentation absolutely isn't a place for it?
It's you who tries to shoot down that argument not by reason, but by attaching stupid labels to the things I talk about, such as branding this new module as Chrome, and then laughing at how ridiculous it sounds after you have yourself made it sound ridiculous. How about you take on my argument in its original form?
Why would it be wrong for any part of Windows operating system to rely on an existence of a mandatory non-uninstallable module?
Your brain can be removed too (if it wasn't already) and the body still kept alive, but I think you'd agree basically everyone considers it an inseparable part of human body, and the assumption that everyone has one is perfectly fine, to the point it can be taken as an axiom.
Sure, I can assume you have a brain, it's just that you don't seem to be using it in any capacity whatsoever -- it's like it's not even there. I bet that if they opened your head they would have found only a single wire passing through the middle which if cut would make your ears fall off. Now kindly stop discussing stuff you don't understand.
Ignore an actual argument and copycat the implication that the other part has no brain. Classy. Really shows your deep knowledge on the subject at hand! It takes a lot of expertise in IT to not even try to answer!
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goes to shut windows down at the end of the workweek
shutting down screen/spinner comes on one screen, other screens go black
...
...
...
regular desktop stuff reappears
...
cursor spins for a bit
.
posts about latest retarded thing Windows did and tries to shut Windows down againSecond time's a charm, apparently.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
From a legal point of view, an inseparable antivirus is anti-competitive behavior -- 3rd-party antivirus vendors can't have the same level of system integration (for example they cannot leverage hypervisor and virtualization), and Microsoft has an unfair advantage of placing their product in the OOBE experience, which makes people less likely to consider alternatives even if those are superior.
Even with bundling Defender with Windows, it's still not the most popular AV, so it hardly gives them the sort of advantage they got many years ago with Media Player or IE.
Considering most users, having an AV installed by default is a good thing.
Does being an "essential" component make it harder for it to be maliciously disabled or removed?@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
From a moral point of view, an unremovable antivirus which regular users don't know how to disable
Does it disable itself if the user installs a 3rd party AV?
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Does it disable itself if the user installs a 3rd party AV?
Looks like it. When I go in the the security settings, it shows CylancePROTECT and Symantec Endpoint (company machine).
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
However, I don't agree about not having an option to fully disable and uninstall.
Yeah, fair enough.
Even If I had disabled Defender (I haven't) I'm not sure I'd be overly bothered if MSRT still ran. I'd not be bothered by a GUI option to disable the thing either though.@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
To my knowledge it does
At least if the user cares enough to install something else, it fucks off out of the way.
@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
that there were "bugs" which made it suddenly re-enable itself even though another AV is installed.
Oh. Well that's a bit silly.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
And refactoring doesn't exist. Windows 10 has the complete source code of XP in unchanged form, and everything they've added in the following years has a line count of no more than 11% of what they've started with. We know this is $100% legit info because some Serbian troll says so.
I haven't claimed that the code didn't change over the years, just that 90% of it was written before Defender existed.
In other words, you claim 90% of the code didn't change at all over the years, and any changes encompass no more than 10% of the codebase. Which is just slightly less wrong than what I ironically said above.
It's your problem if you can't understand what that means
The only understanding problem I see is you being unable to understand that code gets refactored. Sure, there's certainly places that haven't been touched since 1995, but you need some serious evidence if you want to claim the majority of Windows source code is exactly as it was on Windows XP release. Especially considering all the architectural changes in Windows Vista and later, which turned the whole UI drawing and security model upside down - not to mention all the changes they've needed to make to support UWP.
and if you think Microsoft developers are so retarded that they are introducing random hard-coded dependencies between defender and the rest of the OS.
Why wouldn't they? They're as incompetent as any other large international corporation. Yes, they have a lot of genius developers, but they also have a fair share of utter morons. Like any other large international corporation.
As a matter of fact, if they are doing that without the ability of self-repair (we are talking about antivirus product here which is going to be targeted by malware) then they are indeed more retarded than you.
How can Windows Defender self-repair if you removed it entirely? Also, since you haven't answered me the last time - do you want Windows to do Steam-like integrity check and restore missing/changed files on every update check?
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Windows Update is under no obligation to work correctly on a system that hasn't been used correctly.
And we see that every day on systems attacked by malware where Windows Update gets disabled by it and can't recover.
They even added Windows Update Medic Service to remedy that situation but guess what? It can't do it if malware disables that too.
Once malware gains admin privileges you're completely screwed anyway, so I don't know what you're trying to prove here. Should Windows take away the possibility to give a user admin rights? Because that's the only way to completely prevent malware the ability to gain admin rights.
Especially when Microsoft has released an officially supported tool that automatically solves your exact issue and you know about it.
So you are now saying that having to manually reinstall and reconfigure all your non-store applications (such as Visual Studio, Office, Photoshop, WDK, CUDA, Intel Compiler, etc), most of which are multi-gigabyte installations after resetting the PC is a "tool that automatically solves your exact issue"?
Yes. It does work after you do all this, doesn't it? It might be a little inconvenient (though arguably less inconvenient than bricking your own computer all by yourself), but you can't deny it works.
I've seen people defend Microsoft (which btw is classic Stockholm Syndrome)
I hate Microsoft more than anything else in the world (except for a few
dozenhundredsthousands other software companies, that is) - but your particular hate is totally undeserved. You have so many completely valid complaints to make against Microsoft - why did you choose the one thing where they've done nothing wrong?@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
A lot of WinAPI functions are basically aliases for starting iexplore.exe process.
Citation needed -- a list of at least 5 APIs that start iexplore.exe (not counting the obvious
system(), StartProcess(), exec(), and friends) would be acceptable.Okay, I admit I'm not entirely sure whether this is still inside WinAPI or whether it's technically called something else, and it was long ago but I remember using these, and I don't think I've had to include anything except Windows.h. They might be the only ones, or they might not, I don't know.
But the fact is - the IE's ability to fetch websites and render HTML was widely used for many parts of Windows XP, even if iexplore.exe wasn't actually run.
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
knowing the new module is non-uninstallable
You are positing that the module is non-uninstallable as a basis of your argument and you don't know that any more than I do except
...that MS said it's non-uninstallable. That's enough, in my opinion, to justify other MS devs assuming it really is non-uninstallable. Your cowboy admining is completely irrelevant here. It's one of those things where written documents are much more important than actual behavior in determining what is and isn't okay to do. Like C's undefined behavior. After compiling, every byte of the resulting assembly has defined behavior, no matter what atrocities you've committed writing the program - but it's still not okay to do it. Just because your particular build of Windows does work after removing Windows Defender, it still doesn't make it okay to remove Windows Defender and you have no right to complain that there are any issues with your Windows installation after you do it. You haven't seen the source code, you don't know what the outsourced Indian devs decided to put in the shell code.
assuming that therefore no one will ever uninstall it, and then, in the next release, write some code that implicitly relies...
Pure whataboutism.
I don't think this word means what you think it means.
The only dependency is in the updating process which is failing because it is not finding a file to overwrite.
You don't know that.
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Why would it be wrong for any part of Windows operating system to rely on an existence of a mandatory non-uninstallable module?
Do you want me to answer this from a technical, legal, or a moral point of view? TL;DR -- it's bad from all of them.
From a technical point of view, an antivirus should not be a dependency for the core OS functionality, malware wil target it and if it breaks you have a non-functional OS which you can't repair without full reinstall.
- Malware will target official MS antivirus whether or not it's part of the core OS.
- The only way for malware to access core OS functionality is to gain admin privileges, and once malware gained admin privileges, there's no other way to be absolutely sure it's been removed other than full OS reinstall (and in extreme cases, scrapping the whole computer, especially the CPU, motherboard, and all drives).
From a legal point of view, an inseparable antivirus is anti-competitive behavior -- 3rd-party antivirus vendors can't have the same level of system integration (for example they cannot leverage hypervisor and virtualization), and Microsoft has an unfair advantage of placing their product in the OOBE experience, which makes people less likely to consider alternatives even if those are superior. I can't believe I just had to explain this.
I can't believe I have to explain to you that anti-monopoly laws are considered on a case by case basis and there are very good reasons for MS to bundle antivirus software with the system itself, and they even added new features specifically to integrate with 3rd party AV software better.
From a moral point of view
I'm not interested in moral arguments unless you first describe your moral framework under which you consider the question. Otherwise it's empty statements with no value for the discussion. Everything is immoral if you set it as axiom. And no, I didn't even read what you wrote here.
I could go on, but you are really starting to tire me out.
If only you put all that effort in making at least one argument that's actually good! All you've shown so far is that you have no idea how malware works, you have no idea how anti-monopoly laws work, and MS hurt your feelings.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
malware wil target it and if it breaks you have a non-functional OS which you can't repair without full reinstall.
If malware can uninstall your AV, it's already game over bro. At that point it could do any number of things, including removing Windows Update, replacing every link and button to Windows Update with http://update-windows.microsoft-helper.com.org.ru, or just delete System32
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The reason this is acceptable in 2019 is because this is the only way to make sure the problem is solved.
I think this point needs repeating.
In a normal world, the only reason the Windows Defender service, which is not uninstallable by normal means, could possibly be missing, is from some kind of really bad system corruption. At that point, you can't assume anything, and just reinstalling Windows Defender will probably not fix the issue. From Microsoft's POV, your computer is corrupted, unstable, and the only way to get to a reasonably deterministic state is to start from scratch.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I could go on, but you are really starting to tire
meall of us out.Pot, meet kettle.
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@boomzilla said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
goes to shut windows down at the end of the workweek
shutting down screen/spinner comes on one screen, other screens go black
...
...
...
regular desktop stuff reappears
...
cursor spins for a bit
.
posts about latest retarded thing Windows did and tries to shut Windows down againSecond time's a charm, apparently.
So we'll need to amend the saying:
"Have you tried turning it off and on again? Have you tried again?"
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Gears 5 is ~69GB installed
On disk E:
Which has another 264GB free
There's an update.
Error.
The details?
Clicking "Create space" takes me to the disk usage for disk C: - which does have less than the required amount of space, but isn't where the game is installed.
I try to move Gears 5 to the G: drive.
Nope.
Well, thanks, Windows.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
In other words, you claim 90% of the code didn't change at all over the years, and any changes encompass no more than 10% of the codebase.
No I am not -- those 90% have changed to some extent in the meantime as well, but when they were written they couldn't and didn't depend on anything that started to exist afterwards.
This is the first time you acknowledge it could've changed. And since it could've changed, the fact Windows Defender was released after XP has no bearing on whether the later Windowses could internally depend on it being always present or not.
but you need some serious evidence if you want to claim the majority of Windows source code is exactly as it was on Windows XP release.
On the inside? Of course not. On the outside? Win32 API as mostly the same as it was. There are new libraries, but the core (ntoskrnl.exe, ntdll.dll, kernel32.dll, gdi32.dll, win32k.sys, etc) still exports the same interfaces from years ago.
And as we know from various MS dev blogs (The Old New Thing being my favorite), Windows devs often go to incredible lengths to make completely new code fit the old API and ABI.
Why wouldn't they? They're as incompetent as any other large international corporation. Yes, they have a lot of genius developers, but they also have a fair share of utter morons. Like any other large international corporation.
Because Microsoft has learned a lesson which you didn't -- if you use a non-public API in your own products for some questionable advantage
Let me repeat once again because apparently you're unable to comprehend text - they don't do this for competitive advantage. They do this because it makes implementation easier.
some other big software vendor (of too big to fail sort) will figure it out and start using it as well for a big name product used by everyone, and then you can't change or fix that non-public API if it is broken -- you are stuck with it as it is forever.
They have this exact same problem whether they make cross-dependencies or not. The code is still there and it still works the same, and dumbfuck developers will find a way to call it whether or not MS devs decided to do it themselves.
Also, since you haven't answered me the last time - do you want Windows to do Steam-like integrity check and restore missing/changed files on every update check?
Not on every update check, only if / when it encounters missing packages which are preventing it from updating the rest of the OS.
So, yes? But wouldn't you hate them for undoing all the hard work you've put in stripping "unnecessary" parts off your Windows installation seemingly at random? (Because even if it is actually essential for some complicated reason, you'd still call bullshit because packages and registry and whatnot.)
Now you tell me why do you think offering you an option to restore missing package would be bad? Would it be better to have to reinstall the OS?
From "fixing the damn problem, whatever it is" point of view - absolutely.
Yes. It does work after you do all this, doesn't it?
Do you disagree?
If I am going to have to reinstall 20+ GB of applications I might as well use the USB media instead of your magic Reset this PC "tool", because I won't be saving myself any time or effort with that.
They're the same thing, after all.
It might be a little inconvenient
That's kind of an understatement.
Look. You removed that module despite being told in multiple ways that you should not remove it. You should be prepared that everything can go to hell at any moment. You rip the seal - you don't get the warranty.
(though arguably less inconvenient than bricking your own computer all by yourself)
What I brick myself I can fix. What Microsoft bricks only reinstall can fix. So it's actually more convenient if I do it myself.
Then do it yourself and stop complaining that WU can't clean up after you.
but you can't deny it works.
For your definition of "works", sure. If all you need is a blank Windows with Candy Crush Saga, Minecraft and a browser for facebook and pornhub, then you don't really need a PC -- Surface tablet will do, and you can keep resetting it as much and as often as you want -- it will always come back with all your essential stuff installed.
Come on. It leaves you a note on the desktop of all the stuff it uninstalled. It's not that big of a hurdle. And it does leave many programs intact anyway.
Okay, I admit I'm not entirely sure...
Of course you aren't.
Only an idiot is 100% sure of what they say. Human life is way too short to know everything, and the number of unknown unknowns is mind boggling.
...that MS said it's non-uninstallable.
MS didn't say shit. They just protected a few registry keys so they don't get accidentally removed.
Sounds like they said something after all - and it absolutely sounds like you got the message.
and you have no right to complain that there are any issues with your Windows installation after you do it.
There are no issues with installation, only with Windows Update but you keep ignoring that.
Windows Update isn't part of Windows installation? Is this yet another essential but actually completely optional component that you're free to
rm -rffrom your disk and everything will be just dandy?@sloosecannon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
In a normal world, the only reason the Windows Defender service, which is not uninstallable by normal means, could possibly be missing, is from some kind of really bad system corruption. At that point, you can't assume anything, and just reinstalling Windows Defender will probably not fix the issue. From Microsoft's POV, your computer is corrupted, unstable, and the only way to get to a reasonably deterministic state is to start from scratch.
Do you guys have any idea how is Windows even installed? I think not.
It's installed by booting the installation media and clicking "next" a dozen times. Everything else is an implementation detail that's subject to change at any moment without warning.
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@sloosecannon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If malware can uninstall your AV, it's already game over bro.
Heck, it doesn't even need to do that! Just advertise itself as a 3rd-party AV and Defender dutifully gets out of the way!
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@Gąska said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
So, yes? But wouldn't you hate them for undoing all the hard work you've put in stripping "unnecessary" parts off your Windows installation seemingly at random? (Because even if it is actually essential for some complicated reason, you'd still call bullshit because packages and registry and whatnot.)
I can picture it now:
: WARGLBARGH Windows reinstalled Defender after I brutally ripped it out!!! Winblows Suxors!!!!
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@error said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
In fact, they're so paranoid about rival stores, they don't even allow interpreters (something that was very problematic because a product made by my employer had Lua support, and they had to drop it for iOS).
Is that current policy or one from some time ago? I know that was their initial policy, but they softened it a few years back (interpreters became allowed, but downloading anything for them to run — other than via the Store — was seriously verboten) which is at least understandable as it means that things still work correctly when the network is dodgy, and stems a major route for getting things onto the device that the user didn't intend to have. I do not know if they stiffened their policy back again though, as this isn't an area I actually work in. I just know some people who do, but haven't talked to them much for a few years.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@sloosecannon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If malware can uninstall your AV, it's already game over bro.
Heck, it doesn't even need to do that! Just advertise itself as a 3rd-party AV and Defender dutifully gets out of the way!
Yeah, but at that point, it's already on the other side of the water tight door (since that requires admin to install) so you're already fucked.
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Mine is when my Fitbit stops syncing.
In that case, I'd constantly have to reboot my non-existing Win10 machine.
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@error said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
In fact, they're so paranoid about rival stores, they don't even allow interpreters (something that was very problematic because a product made by my employer had Lua support, and they had to drop it for iOS).
Is that current policy or one from some time ago? I know that was their initial policy, but they softened it a few years back (interpreters became allowed,
I have a Python interpreter on my phone, so I guess it's allowed.
but downloading anything for them to run — other than via the Store — was seriously verboten) which is at least understandable as it means that things still work correctly when the network is dodgy, and stems a major route for getting things onto the device that the user didn't intend to have.
Well, that stupid Mario Kart game I've posted about over
definitely downloads / executes new content on demand, and also definitely doesn't even start without a network even though it's single player.I have no idea what their actual policies currently are, but whatever they are they're bound to be completely inconsistent.
Just like the content policy that there's apps where no nudity is allowed (because Apple, allowed on other platforms) but on others it's not a problem / impossible to restrict. Like anything with user-provdided content or access to websites.
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
After having just completed the move to "modern" icons, Microsoft has realized that they look like shit, and are now Mozillafying them:
Microsoft unveils new Windows icons as it works to modernize apps
Microsoft is using Fluent design to modernize the look of its apps and icons across Windows. Overall, it makes the OS more consistent.
The ones they currently have actually don't look bad to me:
With the newest wave of icon redesigns, we faced two major creative challenges. We needed to signal innovation and change while maintaining familiarity for customers
"Office 98 had all the features people needed, so we constantly need to change things to make it look new."
the company learned things like depth, gradations, vibrant colours and motion resonated with people, while flat designs and muted colours didn’t.
But for the last decade everyone's been pushing this low contrast, monochrome, flat shit.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The ones they currently have actually don't look bad
Therefore, they must change!
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The ones they currently have actually don't look bad to me:
Yeah - they're actively telling you not to use Outlook!
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The ones they currently have actually don't look bad to me:
Yeah - they're actively telling you not to use Outlook!
I wonder what that means. I assume it's either "no unread email" or "no account set up". I've never started either OneNote or Outlook, ever.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
The ones they currently have actually don't look bad to me:
Mine has these:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I wonder what that means. I assume it's either "no unread email" or "no account set up". I've never started either OneNote or Outlook, ever.
It's MacOS adding that, not Outlook. It means it can't be launched for some reason.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It's MacOS adding that, not Outlook. It means it can't be launched for some reason.
Now you made me do it. Thanks!
You can't use this version of the program "Microsoft Outlook.app" with this version of macOS.
You've got "Microsoft Outlook.app 15.13.3".Um, ok? Why? Could you be any less specific WTF is going on?
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@topspin Du kannst ye flask nicht get
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Could you be any less specific WTF is going on?
geht nicht
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Could you be any less specific WTF is going on?
Careful. They might notice your challenge.
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@PleegWat said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Could you be any less specific WTF is going on?
Careful. They might notice your challenge.
Etwas went wrong?
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Um, ok? Why? Could you be any less specific WTF is going on?
I'm sure it could be less specific if it wanted.
The version is too old for whatever version of MacOS that is.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
need to change things to make it look new
This I don't really understand- though the sentiment seems ubiquitous.
If a design is good, is it not forever good, and likewise for bad design?
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@error said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
need to change things to make it look new
This I don't really understand- though the sentiment seems ubiquitous.
If a design is good, is it not forever good, and likewise for bad design?Maybe there's an analogy in there between fashion and style.
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Du kannst ye flask nicht get
:likelike:
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@sloosecannon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If malware can uninstall your AV, it's already game over bro.
Heck, it doesn't even need to do that! Just advertise itself as a 3rd-party AV and Defender dutifully gets out of the way!
Yeah, but at that point, it's already on the other side of the water tight door (since that requires admin to install) so you're already fucked.
I didn't say you weren't, just that it's easier to disable Defender "legitimately" than hack it off and risk some unknown protection routine noticing it's off/broken and fixing it, possibly with an error notification.
You've never written a worm before, have you?
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Um, ok? Why? Could you be any less specific WTF is going on?
You managed to install the PowerPC version of Outlook only?
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@error said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Du kannst ye flask nicht get
:likelike:
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@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
You've never written a worm before, have you?
How do we not have a black hat thread yet?
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@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@error said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@hungrier said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@topspin Du kannst ye flask nicht get
:likelike:
Custom emoji thread is
.
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@error said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Tsaukpaetra said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
You've never written a worm before, have you?
How do we not have a black hat thread yet?
Someone confused it with the one about avatars and disappeared into obscurity.
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@levicki said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
how is a restoring a few missing files, importing missing registry entries to current registry hives (unless they are totally hosed which is rare and usually a sign of hardware issue) and resetting filesystem and registry permissions different from full reinstallation,
Because one of these takes a look and trusts that the system is in a state where it's trustworthy enough to report missing files, registry entries, and broken file permissions, and the other assumes the installation is hosed because something that should never go missing is missing.
The first one would definitely work for your weird-ass idiotic setup, but requires a significant amount of effort to get right, to fix something that MS has no obligation to fix. So.. they don't. You're intentionally breaking your system and throwing a tantrum when Microsoft tells you "heh, looks like you fucked your system, we're not gonna fix it for you but feel free to reinstall from scratch to fix it".
You broke your system. It is now your responsibility to fix. You're coloring outside the lines, and when (not if) things go wrong, you are the one that has to fix it.
You should talk to @Tsaukpaetra about weird Windows installs. He does the same thing but at least he's got the maturity to know who to blame when things break.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
You can't use this version of the program "Microsoft Outlook.app" with this version of macOS.
You've got "Microsoft Outlook.app 15.13.3".Um, ok? Why?
I'm betting that it is because it is a 32-bit build of the application and Apple has stopped supporting those on Catalina, requiring everything to be a 64-bit build (this change has been pretty well signalled by Apple too). Which should be just a "change this compiler flag and rebuild" unless they're doing something horrific internally so there must be a
or few in there, either in their code or their release processes (inb4 :whynotboth:).Office was one of the very few applications not already prepared for this change several years ago, FWIW. They may have decided to prioritise fixing Excel and Word, but even so...
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@dkf The larger the codebase, the higher the probability that there’s some pointer size
in there that breaks compatibility. And Office is huge.
On the other hand, it’s also old enough that they’ve been through this with the 16 -> 32 shift before, so they should know not to do stupid things.
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@dkf said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I'm betting that it is because it is a 32-bit build of the application and Apple has stopped supporting those on Catalina, requiring everything to be a 64-bit build (this change has been pretty well signalled by Apple too). Which should be just a "change this compiler flag and rebuild" unless they're doing something horrific internally so there must be a or few in there, either in their code or their release processes (inb4 :whynotboth:).
Office 15.34 and earlier is not even supported on High Sierra, and Office 2016 Mac has been 64-bit for a long time. 15.13.x is a long way from the current version (16.16.17) - presumably if it's not been used, it's not been kept updated unlike Word and Excel.
