Coworking spaces WTF
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I love coworking spaces. Some of them are not entirely unlike coffee shops, but the baristas won't look at you funny because you only had one coffee in three hours, and most of the time you have good broadband. I like them especially when I need to travel somewhere while not having a day off.
But when I read how most of them advertise their space, I cringe.
Every coworking space landlord almost feels obligated to put a paragraph into their description, saying, roughly, this:
Many coworking centers have dedicated areas for conversation and collaboration.
Coworking forces you to leave your bubble and ideally work with others who know what you don’t.Never in my life did I feel an urge to talk about my current project minutiae to people I know nothing about. What I'm interested in is a desk, a wall socket, and some juicy internets. Thank you, here's your money, that will be all, I have some code to churn, now if you would excuse me.
That was just perfect, and my comfort bubble never burst.
But maybe I'm wrong, being old and grumpy, and this phenomenon of "hey, I don't know who the hell you are and why you're here, but let's just randomly collaborate on my shit" really works. Did anyone try that, ever?
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@wft said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Every coworking space landlord almost feels obligated to put a paragraph into their description, saying, roughly, this:
Many coworking centers have dedicated areas for conversation and collaboration.
Coworking forces you to leave your bubble and ideally work with others who know what you don’t.I suppose belitting everyone is a good way to remind them that yes, there is an alpha person within the organization, and you are a piece of shit so just obey to that person already.
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@wft said in Coworking spaces WTF:
talk about my current project minutiae to people I know nothing about
Sure. If I want to get fired and sued for violating my NDA. What could possibly be a problem with that? Sounds like a great reason for "leav[ing my] bubble and ideally work with others who know what [I] don’t."
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Nothing anybody else is working on would be of the slightest interest to me; if it was, I'd already be working on it. The rare exception is, like I said, rare. I cannot help but assume the same is true for everyone else.
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@wft if I'm working on my shit, I would be pretty disinterested in discussing someone else's shitty work.
Not to mention, while I am not a magical unicorn that farts out perfect software, I do consider myself above average (like everyone else) and can't stand how slowly most people think and reason so engaging with randos in a coffee shop where you pay hourly rent for tables seems like a good way to get needlessly annoyed. There's plenty of annoying stuff to deal with, no need to go find extra.
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@pie_flavor said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Nothing anybody else is working on would be of the slightest interest to me; if it was, I'd already be working on it.
You either have extremely narrow interests, or an impossible amount of energy and time in a day.
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@Zecc well, he is a college student.
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@Carnage said in Coworking spaces WTF:
I do consider myself above average (like everyone else)
Perhaps this is a case where the mean is lower than the median, and the long tail of really crap programmers is dragging the “average” down?
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@dkf said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@Carnage said in Coworking spaces WTF:
I do consider myself above average (like everyone else)
Perhaps this is a case where the mean is lower than the median, and the long tail of really crap programmers is dragging the “average” down?
Then the topic title should be "Cow-orking spaces", not "Coworking spaces".
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@HardwareGeek maybe it's directed at pimply-faced startup founders in search of startup buddies, I don't know. "I have this great startup idea, let's network about it!" or "Are you a graphic designer, by chance? Make me a logo for a coffee?" To me, it's like the worst pickup line, ever.
When I want to do "networking", I usually go to a conference. There I can assume that people have at least one thing in common, namely a mild interest in the conference topic. Networking is actually the primary point of those, once you're not a newbie. Talks are background, which you can listen to selectively.
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is that the only difference between a coworking space and a modern corporate office is that everyone in the corporate office is subject to the same NDAs. :tropical_coffee:
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I've done it a couple times. My experience might be different because I already know a lot of the people I'm co-working with from prior jobs and such, but I rarely get anything done because everyone has to chit-chat all the time. For me it's got all of the detriments of an open office concept in any employer, only now I have to pay rent.
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@wft said in Coworking spaces WTF:
But maybe I'm wrong, being old and grumpy, and this phenomenon of "hey, I don't know who the hell you are and why you're here, but let's just randomly collaborate on my shit" really works. Did anyone try that, ever?
People featured on the front page likely have.
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Working with a system that dates back to 1977, it would take me longer to explain it (and all the things that I can't change and have to work around) than it would to just fix it, so no, I probably won't be looking to collaborate with anyone. Not that I would be in a coworking space anyway, not really my thing.
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@wft said in Coworking spaces WTF:
But maybe I'm wrong, being old and grumpy, and this phenomenon of "hey, I don't know who the hell you are and why you're here, but let's just randomly collaborate on my shit" really works. Did anyone try that, ever?
it's got to be for trust-fund kids without bills to pay and amorphous startups they're looking for co-founders for. it literally doesn't make sense for anyone else.
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In my last couple jobs it quickly (after 6 months or so) became apparent that I'm the office chatterbox and sounding board/rubber duck. While I've never been called out on it, it eventually (2 months later) dawns on me that I have to actually sit down and work for at least 5 hours a day. With that in mind this place sounds like hell. If I were to rent a space it would be with the express purpose of actually working not socialising. I like the idea of hosted events but I'm damned if I'm going to pay for the privilege. I'm renting a space to work. Also every placed I've worked for had a clause forbidding me from speaking about my work with third parties. I take this very seriously, mostly because of unlimited liability clauses, which is why I can rarely call on the internet for help with my problems directly.
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@AyGeePlus In Poland, such kids are nowhere to be found, that's the thing. Surely there are youths who think they are going to raise some VC funds (or innovation funds from EU, the remnants of which still exist) and change the world/move to a greener pasture, but they usually use Starbucks: it's cheaper, and many a Starbucks shop are actually more decent as a rent-a-desk than bona fide coworking spaces, where you usually need a monthly membership to boot.
Some coworking spaces "give up" and rent whole rooms to emerging IT companies. Like, there's still a room with shared desks for passersby, but the other two are inaccessible if you don't work there. Some routinely rent whole rooms for coding bootcamps. But all the trite shit about getting to know people and collaborating still remains.
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@wft said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Some routinely rent whole rooms for coding bootcamps
So that's why coding bootcamps are shitty in general!
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@wft If you think coworking space ads are cringy, just wait till you see one for a coliving space. There was one in my town the last time I was looking for a new place, and it looked like an ad for an actual cult.
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@blek said in Coworking spaces WTF:
[an ad] for a coliving space
This is a very common thing; it's called "seeking roommates".
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@Mason_Wheeler I understand your confusion but this is a central European country, the local language isn't similar to English at all. If you're looking for roommates here, you say "hledám spolubydlící", and you don't post a checklist because some things are obvious (don't be disgusting) and the rest are just unreasonable requests (don't ever have anyone over, ever).
If you call it "coliving" you're already being at least a wildly pretentious fuckface - which isn't exactly uncommon, sure - but this guy went above and beyond and posted a checklist that was... just insane. Unfortunately that was a few years ago and the ad is long gone; I managed to dig up his name and google shows he's given some interviews, but I don't feel like translating them all. Just trust me on this: the guy was batshit and I won't be surprised if every single person who ever met him claims he sexually assaulted them. I'll believe them, too.
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Not having experienced these myself, I did a search to see what they typically look like. I wouldn't have thought that plopping down a folding table, throwing a power strip and Ethernet switch/WiFi router on it, surrounding it with some cheap chairs, and charging whatever you can get would be a good business model, but it must work for some folks. I prefer to have at least some privacy and quiet in order to do decent work.
I do find talking to others about what they're working on interesting sometimes, but it's not likely to help me get anything done.
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I completely fail to understand the scenario for which this is useful.
I got my work computer in my office, where I work during the day. Sometimes I work on the laptop at home. Should I have to travel, I can get a little bit of work done on the train (or maybe even plane), but usually I prefer to have things done before then and either do nothing or use the laptop for leisure activity like movies or browsing.
If I bring my laptop somewhere and needed to urgently rent this space to have a desk to work on and better internet, why the hell would I spentd this time I paid for chatting with strangers about confidential work stuff?
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@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
I got my work computer in my office, where I work during the day. Sometimes I work on the laptop at home. Should I have to travel, I can get a little bit of work done on the train (or maybe even plane), but usually I prefer to have things done before then and either do nothing or use the laptop for leisure activity like movies or browsing.why the hell would I spen
If I bring my laptop somewhere and needed to urgently rent this space to have a desk to work on and better internet,tdthistimeI paid forchatting with strangersabout confidential work stuff?STFY
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@MrL Very apt correction. Still, I'm at a loss why this even exists.
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@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@MrL Very apt correction. Still, I'm at a loss why this even exists.
Part of dumb group-work culture paddled by PR firms for last 10 years, I'd guess.
Representative image:
![group-work-photo1[3].jpg](/assets/uploads/files/1567175169834-group-work-photo1-3-resized.jpg)
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@MrL said in Coworking spaces WTF:
group-work culture paddled by PR firms
Paddling isn't severe enough for peddling that malarkey. Bludgeoning with a cluebat (preferably a spiked one) would be better. Then they'd be up a creek without a paddle.
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@MrL said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@MrL Very apt correction. Still, I'm at a loss why this even exists.
Part of dumb group-work culture paddled by PR firms for last 10 years, I'd guess.
Representative image:
And the primary motivation behind full-service Scrum. grr
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@izzion said in Coworking spaces WTF:
is that the only difference between a coworking space and a modern corporate office is that everyone in the corporate office is subject to the same NDAs. :tropical_coffee:I don't think I've ever had a job where my NDA was actually necessary.
"What?!! You let them see that we use the Factory pattern! That's a trade secret!"
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@MrL said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Part of dumb group-work culture paddled by PR firms for last 10 years, I'd guess.
Representative image:
I'd group-work with the blue shirts.
Wait, wrong thread ...
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@blek when I see the mere word, co-living, it evokes in me either imagery of a hippie commune or an actual true-to-god cult. Either is something I’d rather avoid.
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@topspin You are employed and have an actual office to work in. I work from home, and sometimes working elsewhere for a change is nice.
But having a different set of walls around, and frankly, faces, doesn’t mean I’d invite them to collaborate with me. Small talk at the coffee machine, why not.
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@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@MrL said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Part of dumb group-work culture paddled by PR firms for last 10 years, I'd guess.
Representative image:
I'd group-work with the blue shirts.
Wait, wrong thread ...
I like the one on the left. The dimple is adorable.
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People have computers and Internet connections at home. Being able to talk to other people is the only selling point, other than for people away from home.
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@anonymous234 said in Coworking spaces WTF:
People have computers and Internet connections at home. Being able to talk to other people is the only selling point, other than for people away from home.
Not everyone has a proper space with a desk etc at home.
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@anonymous234 said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Being able to talk to other people is the only selling point
That and being able to just look at their screen(s) to debug WTF is going on are huge selling points. Provided the team is working well. Getting a toxic team together is a bad idea.
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@dkf Provided you actually are on a single team. In coworking spaces, you usually are not unless you arrange to meet there.
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@Karla said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@MrL said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Part of dumb group-work culture paddled by PR firms for last 10 years, I'd guess.
Representative image:
I'd group-work with the blue shirts.
Wait, wrong thread ...
I like the one on the left. The dimple is adorable.
Agreed.
I like the puppy look or whatever it is in his eyes/expression (not sure if that’s the right comparison).
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They're all too young for most of you
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@loopback0 said in Coworking spaces WTF:
They're all too young for most of you
It'd be interesting to know the demographic of TDWTF (including the lurkers). I'm guessing the median is mid-thirties. Most of the people in their twenties haven't yet had that innocent joy in engineering beaten out of them and started to suspect something like TDWTF might even exist.
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@loopback0 truth hurts.
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@Cursorkeys said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@loopback0 said in Coworking spaces WTF:
They're all too young for most of you
It'd be interesting to know the demographic of TDWTF (including the lurkers). I'm guessing the median is mid-thirties. Most of the people in their twenties haven't yet had that innocent joy in engineering beaten out of them and started to suspect something like TDWTF might even exist.
There's that, but then I'm also sure there's also a whole bunch of "Wait, why isn't that a Facebook group? So 00-ies" reactions.
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@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
I completely fail to understand the scenario for which this is useful.
You probably don't have small kids
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@Cursorkeys said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@loopback0 said in Coworking spaces WTF:
They're all too young for most of you
It'd be interesting to know the demographic of TDWTF (including the lurkers). I'm guessing the median is mid-thirties. Most of the people in their twenties haven't yet had that innocent joy in engineering beaten out of them and started to suspect something like TDWTF might even exist.
We do have a couple youngsters. IIRC @gaska is in his 20s, and @pie_flavor is like 12
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@hungrier but I must note that I've had the joy in engineering beaten out of me quite some time ago. Now I'm in it only for the money.
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@Gąska You might get lucky and find a project that both pays well and is interesting too. That's usually accompanied by working with people you respect…
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@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
I completely fail to understand the scenario for which this is useful.
I got my work computer in my office, where I work during the day. Sometimes I work on the laptop at home. Should I have to travel, I can get a little bit of work done on the trainGetting work done in the office? No problemo.
Getting work done on the train? Usually works as well.
But getting work done at my actual home is nearly impossible for me, even in my "office". There's just too much distraction. I constantly want to leave the desk to clean up, make food, watch Netflix or just take a nap.
Co-working spaces are meant for people like me, who occasionally have to or want to work from somewhere near their home (to avoid the long commute), but also need a quiet work-like environment to be productive.
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@dfdub
Of course, those places are advertised differently, because nobody wants to be told that they need to leave the house and see people working around them because they have a huge ADHD and/or procrastination problem. So they make up some shit about synergy, community, exchange of ideas, bla, bla, bla. In reality, they're used by people who either want to be left the fuck alone so they can get some work done or need to occasionally leave the house and be in the vicinity of other people so they can pretend to have a social life to make sure they don't go crazy from sitting in their basement, alone.Working from home is a truly horrible experience for some people, including me.
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@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@Karla said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@topspin said in Coworking spaces WTF:
@MrL said in Coworking spaces WTF:
Part of dumb group-work culture paddled by PR firms for last 10 years, I'd guess.
Representative image:
I'd group-work with the blue shirts.
Wait, wrong thread ...
I like the one on the left. The dimple is adorable.
Agreed.
I like the puppy look or whatever it is in his eyes/expression (not sure if that’s the right comparison).Yes. Not sure what it is is called either but it is quite endearing.
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@loopback0 said in Coworking spaces WTF:
They're all too young for most of you
