Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour
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Tesla got busy developing its own solution. It's called the V3 Supercharger, and it can support up to 250kW per car, from a cabinet that's rated at 1MW. Tesla says "at this rate, a Model 3 Long Range operating at peak efficiency can recover up to 75 miles of charge in 5 minutes and charge at rates of up to 1,000 miles per hour."
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@El_Heffe Um, makes a lot of sense. Charge for 5 minutes and then go (1000 / 12) miles.
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Quite a bit better than the 4 miles per hour you get with a regular wall plug.
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@Captain said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe Um, makes a lot of sense. Charge for 5 minutes and then go (1000 / 12) miles.
It does, in isolation. But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
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@boomzilla said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Captain said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe Um, makes a lot of sense. Charge for 5 minutes and then go (1000 / 12) miles.
It does, in isolation. But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
Not to mention, for the charging Mph to mean anything, you need to include speed and temperature as well, since those greatly affect the range.
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@Carnage said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@boomzilla said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Captain said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe Um, makes a lot of sense. Charge for 5 minutes and then go (1000 / 12) miles.
It does, in isolation. But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
Not to mention, for the charging Mph to mean anything, you need to include speed and temperature as well, since those greatly affect the range.
Not to mention the car involved. Well, it's possible that Tesla's are all fairly similar, at least on the "normal" setting or whatever they have (don't they have a special drag racing setting at least?), but it would be retarded to have a Tesla only unit for this.
Seems like amp hours or whatever is the sane thing, just like we use gallons for quantities gas.
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@boomzilla said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
No problem here - charge at mph and drive at km/h. No ambiguity.
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@Carnage said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@boomzilla said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Captain said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe Um, makes a lot of sense. Charge for 5 minutes and then go (1000 / 12) miles.
It does, in isolation. But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
Not to mention, for the charging Mph to mean anything, you need to include speed and temperature as well, since those greatly affect the range.
Car charging is now measured in km2 h-2 K-1
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@Carnage said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
you need to include speed and temperature as well, since those greatly affect the range
IOW, it's gonna charge only at around 100 mph in Canada
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It's no worse than measuring the efficiency of a petrol car in square metres (or other surface unit).
"If you went outside and lay down on your back with your mouth open, how long would you have to wait until a bird pooped in it?"
(in typical XKCD fashion, yes, this is relevant)
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@boomzilla said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
So it needs a separate name. There's other measures out there that have the same units but which are otherwise entirely separate, so there's a precedent for this; compare the measurements for wave frequency (Hz) and radioactivity (Bq), which are both technically s-1, but you wouldn't ever want to mix them up.
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@dkf because if you do, that might hurt(s).
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@dkf Don't forget about the angular velocity which is also s-1.
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@boomzilla said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Captain said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe Um, makes a lot of sense. Charge for 5 minutes and then go (1000 / 12) miles.
It does, in isolation. But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
Even then it mixes nicely, i.e. it gives you the ratio of charging time to driving time. Charging 1 hour at 1000 mph you can drive 10 hours at 100mph.
Which, of course, would assume that power usage is proportional only to distance driven and not to speed driven, which seems extremely implausible ("peak efficiency" is probably a very narrow spot).Admittedly, my reaction to reading this was too.
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@dkf said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@boomzilla said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
But the name duplicates an already existing and extremely prevalent unit that means something completely different.
So it needs a separate name. There's other measures out there that have the same units but which are otherwise entirely separate, so there's a precedent for this; compare the measurements for wave frequency (Hz) and radioactivity (Bq), which are both technically s-1, but you wouldn't ever want to mix them up.
OK but at least they're talking about different domains. And aren't implicitly including some other subject (as in the particular model of car in this case).
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@remi A Ford Fiesta has an efficiency of 0.065 mm2.
That's pretty darn small surface area.
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@anonymous234 That's apparently about the size of a (raw) spaghetti.
Which, according to 5 min of totally useless internet searches, means about 2 m^3 of spaghettis for a 100 km length, or a Spaghetti Equivalent Fuel Efficiency of about 4700 mpg.
That has to be the most stupidest searches in my Google search history.
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@Rhywden said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@dkf Don't forget about the angular velocity which is also s-1.
And I think frequency and angular velocity can be said to be related? But there's a factor 2π between the two.
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@PleegWat Of course. The harmonic oscillator is simply the projection of a rotation.
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@remi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
Which, according to 5 min of totally useless internet searches, means about 2 m^3 of spaghettis for a 100 km length, or a Spaghetti Equivalent Fuel Efficiency of about 4700 mpg.
You guys all really suck at 'ing and clearly , because I got (currently) 6 upvotes and not a single one noticed how fucked up my L/100 km -> mpg conversion was (several thousands mpg would mean almost no volume / 100 km, not huge volume).
I guess I messed up when typing in the online converter, and my brain was already so liquefied by the stupidity of the data I had to search to get there that I had disengaged all common-sense safety mechanisms.
So, let's get this right: a Ford Fiesta has a Spaghetti Equivalent Fuel Efficiency of around 0.1 mpg.
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@El_Heffe I haven't done a precise measurement yet, but I think I can charge my old petrol car at some 10,000 km per hour - a really supersonic speed!
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@remi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
That has to be the most stupidest searches in my Google search history.
What interesting ads (and other auto-completions) are you going to see now...
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@remi Great, now I have to take the spaghetti out of my gas tank. I'm holding you responsible for any damage that happens to my car from this.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe I haven't done a precise measurement yet, but I think I can charge my old petrol car at some 10,000 km per hour - a really supersonic speed!
A quick search shows your average gas pump at 13 gallons per minute, so 780 gallons per hour. For some reason it appears we limit that to 10 gallons per minute in the USA, so 600 gallons per hour:
Your average US car gets 26.4 miles per gallon:
So, 26.4 * 600 is 15,840 "miles per hour" on recharging.
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
My 16 year old SUV get ~15.5mpg, so it refuels at 9,300 "miles per hour". It also has never attempted to steer me in to a concrete highway barrier.
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@Polygeekery A thousand miles in an hour also implies that if you charge for an hour, you can drive for a thousand miles. Which is probably false.
Personally, if I'm on a long drive I'll take a break every few hours anyway. I don't particularly mind whether I refuel and then take a break, or hook up to the charger, take a break, then disconnect it. However I don't want to take a half-hour break every 2 hours, and I wouldn't want to have to wait for charging spots either.
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@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
Hey, at least they are over the break-even point. So if you were charging the car while driving, you wouldn't run out of charge. (Just need a really long cable.)
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@cvi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
Hey, at least they are over the break-even point. So if you were charging the car while driving, you wouldn't run out of charge. (Just need a really long cable.)
No, it's gotta be SOLAR PANELS! Waitwaitwait - SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
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@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@BernieTheBernie said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe I haven't done a precise measurement yet, but I think I can charge my old petrol car at some 10,000 km per hour - a really supersonic speed!
A quick search shows your average gas pump at 13 gallons per minute, so 780 gallons per hour. For some reason it appears we limit that to 10 gallons per minute in the USA, so 600 gallons per hour:
Your average US car gets 26.4 miles per gallon:
So, 26.4 * 600 is 15,840 "miles per hour" on recharging.
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
My 16 year old SUV get ~15.5mpg, so it refuels at 9,300 "miles per hour". It also has never attempted to steer me in to a concrete highway barrier.
The biggest irony?
The vast majority of people would end up using coal/oil power to charge their Teslas, making the whole ordeal pointless.
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@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
So how many miles per hour do the solar
panelsroads charge you?
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@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@cvi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
Hey, at least they are over the break-even point. So if you were charging the car while driving, you wouldn't run out of charge. (Just need a really long cable.)
No, it's gotta be SOLAR PANELS! Waitwaitwait - SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
Why not just put a solar panel on the car.
Better yet. Make the entire body of the car from solar panel.
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@cvi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
So how many miles per hour do the solar
panelsroads charge you?You can drive .000001 mile per hour on the road. (Dude, get out and push - it'll be faster.)
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@remi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
and not a single one noticed how fucked up my L/100 km -> mpg conversion was
I was told there would be no math in the SideBar.
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@boomzilla
You should complain to a mod.
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@izzion said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
You should complain to a mod.
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@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
My 16 year old SUV get ~15.5mpg, so it refuels at 9,300 "miles per hour". It also has never attempted to steer me in to a concrete highway barrier.
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@xaade said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@BernieTheBernie said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe I haven't done a precise measurement yet, but I think I can charge my old petrol car at some 10,000 km per hour - a really supersonic speed!
A quick search shows your average gas pump at 13 gallons per minute, so 780 gallons per hour. For some reason it appears we limit that to 10 gallons per minute in the USA, so 600 gallons per hour:
Your average US car gets 26.4 miles per gallon:
So, 26.4 * 600 is 15,840 "miles per hour" on recharging.
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
My 16 year old SUV get ~15.5mpg, so it refuels at 9,300 "miles per hour". It also has never attempted to steer me in to a concrete highway barrier.
The biggest irony?
The vast majority of people would end up using coal/oil power to charge their Teslas, making the whole ordeal pointless.
Not at all. It is far more efficient for a power plant to utilize oil power than for a car to do the same.
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@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
For some reason it appears we limit that to 10 gallons per minute in the USA, so 600 gallons per hour
Stops all those explosions.
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@pie_flavor said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
Not at all. It is far more efficient for a power plant to utilize oil power than for a car to do the same.
Even after compensating for losses in the electric network and battery?
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@xaade said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@cvi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
Hey, at least they are over the break-even point. So if you were charging the car while driving, you wouldn't run out of charge. (Just need a really long cable.)
No, it's gotta be SOLAR PANELS! Waitwaitwait - SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
Why not just put a solar panel on the car.
Better yet. Make the entire body of the car from solar panel.
You lack vision. Put a wind turbine on the car. Then it can power itself forever.
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@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@xaade said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@cvi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
Hey, at least they are over the break-even point. So if you were charging the car while driving, you wouldn't run out of charge. (Just need a really long cable.)
No, it's gotta be SOLAR PANELS! Waitwaitwait - SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
Why not just put a solar panel on the car.
Better yet. Make the entire body of the car from solar panel.
You lack vision. Put a wind turbine on the car. Then it can power itself forever.
What are the odds that there's a gofundme/gimmegimmegimme thing that's combining all of those things as we speak...
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@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@xaade said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@cvi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
Hey, at least they are over the break-even point. So if you were charging the car while driving, you wouldn't run out of charge. (Just need a really long cable.)
No, it's gotta be SOLAR PANELS! Waitwaitwait - SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
Why not just put a solar panel on the car.
Better yet. Make the entire body of the car from solar panel.
You lack vision. Put a wind turbine on the car. Then it can power itself forever.
What are the odds that there's a gofundme/gimmegimmegimme thing that's combining all of those things as we speak...
I think @Carnage was the one who gave me the idea. I believe he said one of the politicians in his country unironically proposed just such a thing.
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@Polygeekery said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@BernieTheBernie said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@El_Heffe I haven't done a precise measurement yet, but I think I can charge my old petrol car at some 10,000 km per hour - a really supersonic speed!
A quick search shows your average gas pump at 13 gallons per minute, so 780 gallons per hour. For some reason it appears we limit that to 10 gallons per minute in the USA, so 600 gallons per hour:
Your average US car gets 26.4 miles per gallon:
So, 26.4 * 600 is 15,840 "miles per hour" on recharging.
So Tesla's are still pretty shit by every measure.
My 16 year old SUV get ~15.5mpg, so it refuels at 9,300 "miles per hour". It also has never attempted to steer me in to a concrete highway barrier.
you are missing the weight factor. Each additional gallon you get adds weight to the car, reducing its efficiency. 600 gallons amounts to roughly 5,000 pounds, which probably wouldn't even get the car moving, not to mention destroy its suspension.
And an hour of charging is not the same as an hour at a fuel pump. Unless you have a commute of 1000 miles per day you can easily charge unattended at your place of work or at home. Can't do that at a fuel pump.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
you can easily charge unattended at your place of work
For most people? You're kidding, right? Only high tech companies who want to look good have charging available.
Unless you have a commute
That's about all they're good for. Want to drive to LA from SF? Yeah, gonna take a lot longer in an electric car than good ole gas!
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@PleegWat said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
I wouldn't want to have to wait for charging spots either.
Don't worry about that. I've seen those at service stations, and they're never in use in the first place.
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@xaade said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
The vast majority of people would end up using coal/oil power to charge their Teslas, making the whole ordeal pointless.
Varies a lot from place to place. Very little oil for power round here — gas is preferred, and modern combined-cycle gas power plants can run at about 65% efficiency — and they're trying to phase out the use of coal.
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@cvi said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
SOLAR ROADS that beam the power straight into your car! Infinite miles per charge!
So how many miles per hour do the solar
panelsroads charge you?How many miles per hour per mile (of road) do you get?
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@dcon said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
@The_Quiet_One said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
Unless you have a commute
That's about all they're good for. Want to drive to LA from SF? Yeah, gonna take a lot longer in an electric car than good ole gas!
You're better off with a hybrid for that sort of range.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
you are missing the weight factor. Each additional gallon you get adds weight to the car, reducing its efficiency.
ICE vehicles improve their efficiency as they drive as they reduce their weight. BEV do not, they always carry extremely heavy battery packs, which is why a Model S weighs ~2.5 tons.
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@dkf said in Apparently, charging an electric car is measured in Miles per Hour:
Don't worry about that. I've seen those at service stations, and they're never in use in the first place.
Who wants to hang out at a gas station for an hour or more? Even if they have decent lot lizards that is only going to keep you occupied for 5-10 minutes.