You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.
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@hungrier said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@dcon ... or facial hair, or people who look alike, or wearing a Richard Nixon mask, etc.
Or someone carrying a pattern of colors and shapes that hash-collides with someone elses face.
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@cvi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
It has like 111 bytes of writable memory, and that's it.
111 bytes shouldn't be enough for anyone.
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If a company I worked for told me I must get a chip implanted, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves in no uncertain terms, and hand in my resignation right then and there.
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@boomzilla said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
But I'm also not foreign like you guys, so I suspect that @pie_flavor is correct.
So you're English, I take it? (Everyone who isn't English is foreign, by definition.)
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@Lorne-Kates said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@hungrier said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@dcon ... or facial hair, or people who look alike, or wearing a Richard Nixon mask, etc.
Or someone carrying a pattern of colors and shapes that hash-collides with someone elses face.
See also:
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@PJH
So KISS is probably safe too ...
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@anonymous234 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
If I found a misplaced ID card, the probability that I also happen to look enough like that guy is tiny.
Oh, I don’t know — do you have a twin brother/sister/whatever you are who has a habit of misplacing stuff?
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@boomzilla said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
And how often do you look at people's ID cards (where you know it's really them in the picture!) and it doesn't really look like them to you? Especially when they're a few years old.
Heh … Some years ago, a man made the news here in the Netherlands because he’d forged a public transport card to have a picture of Osama bin Laden on it (and I think that name as well) and used it for something like a year, after which he replaced it by card with a picture of the then-Queen that he used for another year or so. No bus or tram driver ever seems to have questioned the cards.
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@Luhmann said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@PJH
So KISS is probably safe too ...Serious answer: it might or might not. From the article:
Other forms of make up, like the corpse paint associated with black metal, won't trick the computers.
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@JBert another issue is, it might fool the computer but it can probably confuse people too, who might need to look closer or longer to recognize the person, and more importantly, it's pretty conspicuous.
If your worry is being tracked, painting your face in glaring colors that will attract the attention of everyone around you is probably not that smart. It's like being so focused on defeating the computer that you forget why you wanted to defeat it in the first place.
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@topspin said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@anonymous234 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
formally verified software, for starters
We can fairly easily formally prove that some piece of software conforms (or not) to a spec (with a few restrictions that don't matter too much in practice). The simplest method is to make the code correct by construction, i.e., you start with the spec and use a sequence of trivially verifiable transformations to create the code from it. There are other ways too. (Things get more difficult if the spec has performance requirements in it, but it can be done.)
We can't easily prove that the spec is itself correct…
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@Kian said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@ixvedeusi I don't really think it's a matter of trust, after all these things need to get close to a detector to work, it's not like they can track you without your consent.
It depends on how you define "close". There were records that RFID can be read by receivers on a distance of 20 meters on 2004 and other claims 217 feets. If there are government that want to use implanted chips to track people, they're choose those with even greater receiving range for sure.
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@dkf YMBNH. That's besides the point, because they won't do it if it costs more than 5 cents. In fact, they wouldn't even do it if it were free.
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@topspin ISO 9001 costs way more than 5 cents and companies still do it.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@boomzilla said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
But I'm also not foreign like you guys, so I suspect that @pie_flavor is correct.
So you're English, I take it? (Everyone who isn't English is foreign, by definition.)
Nou oune else has ever tould me that they thought I was an English persoun.
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@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@BernieTheBernie with or without a 100 page primer on political situation in Poland necessary to understand what this meme is about?
With, please.
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@cheong said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@ixvedeusi I don't really think it's a matter of trust, after all these things need to get close to a detector to work, it's not like they can track you without your consent.
It depends on how you define "close".
I just recently overheard the cashier at our cafeteria tell a client how sometimes people got their lunch paid by random people passing behind with an contactless payment card, which I suppose are based on similar technology. Hence why the first thing I do whenever I get a new payment card is to disable that stuff.
"Close" can mean anything from "a few nanometers away" to "a few kilometers away" (or "a few [hundred / million] light-years away" depending on context).
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@WTF said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@BernieTheBernie with or without a 100 page primer on political situation in Poland necessary to understand what this meme is about?
With, please.
In English please.
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@topspin said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
In fact, they wouldn't even do it if it were free.
They'll only do it if they think they can make money from it (or that they'll actually net benefit in some other way). Some clients are willing to pay for that level of assurance of correctness, and it turns out that it's cheaper to use formal methods of software construction than it is (to try) to test thoroughly enough after the fact.
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@ixvedeusi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
"Close" can mean anything from "a few nanometers away" to "a few kilometers away" (or "a few [hundred / million] light-years away depending on context).
I think scales over 1 AU are outside the practical range for NFC.
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@ixvedeusi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I just recently overheard the cashier at our cafeteria tell a client how sometimes people got their lunch paid by random people passing behind with an contactless payment card, which I suppose are based on similar technology.
I've been using the contactless payment quite a bit at this point, and it's really convenient. The furthest I've even seen it work is maybe 10cm, but that's really an exception. Normally, holding the card more than 4-5 cm from the machine will not register it. If you swipe it by too quickly, it'll fail too.
If you want scary magic payments over distance, I suggest you look at Samsung Pay. They seem to transmit at a way higher power, plus they have the hilarious emulate-magent-strip mode, which has a scary range (and confuses cashiers who expect you waving your phone in front of the reader to be an utterly futile exercise because their reader doesn't support contactless payments at all).
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@cvi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
plus they have the hilarious emulate-magent-strip mode,
I must be behind on mobile news, have they made phones thin enough to swipe through a card reader?
Filed under: What about the 3.5mm jack?
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@hungrier Apparently yes, sort of.
https://www.google.es/amp/s/www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/samsung-pay-what-you-need-to-know-faq/Samsung Pay uses what it calls magnetic secure transmission (MST) when the phone is held against one of these registers. The phone emits a magnetic signal that simulates the magnetic strip found on the back of a credit or debit card.
I'm as surprised as you are.
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@hungrier said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
I must be behind on mobile news, have they made phones thin enough to swipe through a card reader?
You don't have to swipe it through the card reader, you just wave it in the general vicinity of it (after launching+authenticating Samsung Pay on the phone). The scary-hilarious part is the sheer range of that, which is much larger than for normal contactless payments.
Apparently some card readers have a mechanical thing that requires a card to pass through them to activate the magnetic reader. The few times I've played around with this stuff, that wasn't the case, though, so for me it worked just fine ("fine", I guess, if you consider the above as "fine").
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@WTF said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@BernieTheBernie with or without a 100 page primer on political situation in Poland necessary to understand what this meme is about?
With, please.
Short version:
Political landscape in Poland is quite similar to the rest of Europe: we have Christian socialists, we have anti-Christian socialists, and we a tiny group of right-libertarians that no one takes seriously. The most widely known, and the most not taken seriously, right-libertarian Polish politician is Janusz Korwin-Mikke (a.k.a. Ozias Goldberg, Jonas Koran-Mekka, and a few other made up names; the guy from the picture). The only time he was elected was all the way back in 1991, soon after the fall of communism and before the new Powers That Be figured out how to prevent unapproved people from getting elected. Despite his party only getting 2% of votes, he still managed to leave quite a big impact - in 1992, he sponsored and managed to get passed a bill that mandated disclosure of all ties to Soviet intelligence agencies of all high ranking politicians and public servants in Poland. Understandably, this made him the most hated politician among other politicians, and resulted in almost 30 years (and counting) of media attacks on him that were hugely disproportionate to his (lack of) popular support.
Other than that, he's probably the most stereotypical conservative imaginable. He's a die-hard economic libertarian of the most extreme kind (he believes a flat poll tax is much better than any form of income tax). He stated on many occasions that he'd prefer monarchy over democracy (because if things go wrong, only one head has to fall). His statements about women get frequently misquoted and taken out of context (I mean, when you say "all women want to be raped just a little", you're just asking for it). He spends most of his time ranting about socialism and all their stupid ideas, and he references Hitler a lot while doing so. This, coupled with his martyr status as explained in previous paragraph, made him extremely popular among high schoolers. Of course whenever you have a big group of high schoolers who love something, a similarly sized group of haters pops up, and then meme war ensues. And because the idea of chipping people comes up every so often, and it's strongly associated with the political left, it's only natural that eventually someone would make a meme about it, featuring the most anti-left person they can imagine.
The caption translates to "no, don't let the leftists chip you". It's intentionally misspelled - should be "zaczipować", but the missing z changes the meaning to something like "cuntify". As for the picture itself, it's best not to think about it too much.
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@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Short version:
Thank you, that is quite enlightening.
Political landscape in Poland is quite similar to the rest of Eastern Europe:
FTFY, I think? AFAIK, the "Christian" denomination of leading parties doesn't happen too much when you get to the Western parts (France, UK, Spain, Italy...). And for some of those, the Christian grounding of the parties is very tenuous, if it even exists (which doesn't mean they aren't in practice strongly linked to it but I think they don't claim it too strongly, sometime just referring to "traditional values" as a dog whistle for those...). I think it's an Eastern/Northern Europe thing, mostly?
The only time he was elected ... Despite his party only getting 2% of votes, he still managed to leave quite a big impact
Do I read this correctly as "he got elected in 1991 with 2% of votes"? If so, how did that happen?
This, coupled with his martyr status as explained in previous paragraph, made him extremely popular among
high schoolersforum regulars. Of course whenever you have a big group ofhigh schoolersforum regulars who love something, a similarly sized group of haters pops up, and then meme war ensues.FTFTD (or the internet, for that matter...)
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@remi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Northern Europe thing
IMO not really. The northern countries are really quite secular. In Sweden, the Christian Democrats are a rather smallish party. While they manage to get enough votes to remain in the government, it's been a close thing for some time now. The numbers seem to look somewhat similar for Norway and Finland.
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@cvi Oh, OK. I thought it was still a thing (at least in name), but I'm not too familiar with the actual politics of those countries.
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@remi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
The only time he was elected ... Despite his party only getting 2% of votes, he still managed to leave quite a big impact
Do I read this correctly as "he got elected in 1991 with 2% of votes"? If so, how did that happen?
Proportional representation coupled with no election threshold. We've had representatives from 29 different parties, 11 of which had only one elected member each (Korwin's party, UPR, had 3 - out of 460 total). The 2% was UPR's nationwide result - in Korwin's voting district, it got 4.6%. The exact formula used then was extremely complicated.
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@WTF Welcome back!
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@Gąska He sounds fun. I'd vote for him.
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@Carnage said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
If a company I worked for told me I must get a chip implanted, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves in no uncertain terms, and hand in my resignation right then and there.
They don't tell you you must. They just make it in your interest. Let me give a non-hypothetical example:
The last company I worked for had their stated rates for health insurance. Oh, wait, did we forget to mention that there's a $600 surcharge if you smoke? And that you have to prove that you and your spouse (if applicable) don't smoke? How do you do that? You just have to submit a hair sample.
And if you don't want to submit a hair sample? Well, it's assumed that you smoke. So you just pay $600 more in health insurance a year. No, that's not like fining you $600 for not submitting a hair sample. Not at all.
And if you participate in the Vitality program? You get another big reduction on your insurance. What's wrong with that? Nothing, just that you have to involve the company in your personal life. Maybe you've been exercising on your own since you were 14. Now you have to involve the company in it, (carry a step-tracker, etc.) or pay extra on your health insurance.
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@pie_flavor said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska He sounds fun. I'd vote for him.
They did.
At least from 2014-18 he was a member of the European Parliament, as one of the few who weren't member of a parliamentary group. Among those his "good friend" Martin Sonneborn, a German MEP who is quite literally the leader of a satirical party and who took his job as an opportunity tomake fun of everyone elsehighlight some of the more crazy things about the EU parliament, including his bench neighbor Korwin-Mikke.
From those little reports I've learned he's basically a fun little crazyman who spouts some misogynist, homophobic, or antisemitic gems every now and then.Filed under: I am not Charlie Hebdo. I am for death penalty.
Bonus filed under: Ein Reich, ein Volk, ein Ticket!
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@cheong said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
There were records that RFID can be read by receivers on a distance of 20 meters on 2004 and other claims 217 feets.
My RFID card at work isn't always read when it's literally touching the reader.
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@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@topspin ISO 9001 costs way more than 5 cents and companies still do it.
Only if they think they can make money from it, and don't sell to customers likely to be aware how worthless ISO9001 actually is.
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@loopback0 so all we have to do is convince the customer base that formally verified security is something they really need!
...Yeah, I can see how that's not happening.
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@tharpa said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
The last company I worked for had their stated rates for health insurance. Oh, wait, did we forget to mention that there's a $600 surcharge if you smoke? And that you have to prove that you and your spouse (if applicable) don't smoke? How do you do that? You just have to submit a hair sample.
I am pretty sure that's not legal.
You can't advertise something for $100 and then when they're about to buy say "that offer's only valid if you agree to have sex with me".
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@dkf said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
We can't easily prove that the spec is itself correct…
You can still prove a bunch of things that are very important.
Prove that no code will ever access the private key except for the designated cryptographic function, in the context of authenticating an arbitrary input message. Prove that said cryptographic function implements the standard cryptographic primitive. There you go, all trivial software vulnerabilities eliminated (I'm assuming the program is on ROM).
Obviously there's still cryptographic security, physical attacks, who knows what else. That's why I said it was just one element.
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@anonymous234 As long as they didn't really forget to mention that the advertised rate was for non-smokers, I think it'd be fine.
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@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@loopback0 so all we have to do is convince the customer base that formally verified security is something they really need!
...Yeah, I can see how that's not happening.
Actually, ISO 9001 is about "quality". Are you thinking of ISO 27001?
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@JBert said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
Are you thinking of ISO 27001?
It's almost 3 times as good!
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@JBert said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@loopback0 so all we have to do is convince the customer base that formally verified security is something they really need!
...Yeah, I can see how that's not happening.
Actually, ISO 9001 is about "quality". Are you thinking of ISO 27001?
I meant 9001. I knew it wasn't exactly on topic, but it was still a good example of companies pouring money down the hole despite not getting anything tangible from it.
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@loopback0 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@cheong said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
There were records that RFID can be read by receivers on a distance of 20 meters on 2004 and other claims 217 feets.
My RFID card at work isn't always read when it's literally touching the reader.
There are active and passive RFID chips, and the receivable ranges are different.
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@cheong: is the card thicker than a standard credit card? If so, it may be an older battery-powered model, unlike the modern reader-powered ones. When the battery gets low, it tends to do that.
Another possibility is that there is another contactless card in your wallet. In theory, the reader is supposed to handle this case, but in practice many implementations perform poorly when more than one card is nearby.
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@tharpa said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Carnage said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
If a company I worked for told me I must get a chip implanted, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves in no uncertain terms, and hand in my resignation right then and there.
They don't tell you you must. They just make it in your interest. Let me give a non-hypothetical example:
The last company I worked for had their stated rates for health insurance. Oh, wait, did we forget to mention that there's a $600 surcharge if you smoke? And that you have to prove that you and your spouse (if applicable) don't smoke? How do you do that? You just have to submit a hair sample.
And if you don't want to submit a hair sample? Well, it's assumed that you smoke. So you just pay $600 more in health insurance a year. No, that's not like fining you $600 for not submitting a hair sample. Not at all.
And if you participate in the Vitality program? You get another big reduction on your insurance. What's wrong with that? Nothing, just that you have to involve the company in your personal life. Maybe you've been exercising on your own since you were 14. Now you have to involve the company in it, (carry a step-tracker, etc.) or pay extra on your health insurance.
All fair, but if they only offer it a s an option, I wouldn't care too much. Office landscapes fuck more with my experience at work then. But it they make my life harder as a result of not standing in line, taking a bow and getting rear ended, I'd still tell them to go fuck themselves in no uncertain terms. I've told employers that step out of bounds a few times during my work life.
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@ixvedeusi said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@cheong said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@ixvedeusi I don't really think it's a matter of trust, after all these things need to get close to a detector to work, it's not like they can track you without your consent.
It depends on how you define "close".
I just recently overheard the cashier at our cafeteria tell a client how sometimes people got their lunch paid by random people passing behind with an contactless payment card, which I suppose are based on similar technology. Hence why the first thing I do whenever I get a new payment card is to disable that stuff.
"Close" can mean anything from "a few nanometers away" to "a few kilometers away" (or "a few [hundred / million] light-years away" depending on context).
NFC is based on coils generating and consuming energy via magnetic fields. There's a nice complex equation that describes the energy transmission.
This is, if the coils are exactly identical and aligned just right, they will resonate perfectly, in which case distance gets dropped from the equation, literally. Apparently, distance is only a factor if they are certain un-ideal components in the coil-system already. Someone even made a nice demonstration of this by lighting an 80W bulb via 2 coils across the room.
Apparently, that is. I heard this in passing in university, of which I've been graduated and out for five years already. So don't quote me on that.
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@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@JBert said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@Gąska said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@loopback0 so all we have to do is convince the customer base that formally verified security is something they really need!
...Yeah, I can see how that's not happening.
Actually, ISO 9001 is about "quality". Are you thinking of ISO 27001?
I meant 9001. I knew it wasn't exactly on topic, but it was still a good example of companies pouring money down the hole despite not getting anything tangible from it.
You DO get something tangible from it.
You get to be a subcontractor to companies that want to be ISO9001 compliant for whatever reason. You can be compliant only if your suppliers and/or subcontractors are compliant also.
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@Zerosquare said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
@cheong: is the card thicker than a standard credit card? If so, it may be an older battery-powered model, unlike the modern reader-powered ones. When the battery gets low, it tends to do that.
Another possibility is that there is another contactless card in your wallet. In theory, the reader is supposed to handle this case, but in practice many implementations perform poorly when more than one card is nearby.
Or the reader’s sensitivity needs to be adjusted. No idea how this would have to be done, but apparently it can — in all the gates at one railway station I use regularly, the chip-card reader would nine times out of ten refuse my card unless I took it out of my wallet and held it close to the reader. Since not very long ago, these same gates accept it when the card is still in my wallet (with one or two other chipped cards and possibly a bunch of coins between card and reader) and my wallet is in my jacket pocket, which I hold up to the reader.
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@loopback0 said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
how worthless ISO9001 actually is.
We're ISO 9001:2015 compliant and I think it's a huge help. All it really means though is that you're following your documented procedures. So, if your procedures are hot garbage then...
Its utility for us is in forcing people to actually do things like populate the file shares with design documents so that, 10 years later, you can actually find the damn firmware when a customer needs 3 more of the things urgently and no-one can even remember what the heck they look like.
It's not particularly arduous either, 2 days a year for the external audit is about it really.
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@Cursorkeys said in You *will* be chipped. Whether you like it or not.:
All it really means though is that you're following your documented procedures.
For some parts of our company it means you follow the processes you demonstrate to the auditors but only on the day the auditor is there.