Initiative Q - Money from nowhere?
-
@sockpuppet7 said in Money from nowhere?:
I'm proposing we use air as money. Anyone interested just fill a balloon with air. When everyone has a balloon full of air, our target will be for it to be worth US$ 100.00
There's places in China that'll pay that now!
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
No government insures citizens against their currency losing value.
Because the currency has value. Backed by the government. Your currency's value is whatever you say it is, and inflation happens, again, entirely at your whim.
-
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
Which does not make it a pyramid scheme.
No; asking everybody who joins to make 5 other people join makes it a pyramid scheme. It doesn't matter that it's operating on IOUs instead of actual cash-money.
@dcon said in Money from nowhere?:
Then fees will be 50%. But only temporarily.
Hey I'll sell my Q's at 50% off. I already made that offer.
@dcon said in Money from nowhere?:
There's places in China that'll pay that now!
-
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
Which does not make it a pyramid scheme.
Pyramid, multi-level marketing, tomato, tomoto...
I get invited, get N invites. They each get N invites. I get "money" for being invited. I get more "money" when I invite others. Close enough.
-
@blakeyrat said in Money from nowhere?:
No; asking everybody who joins to make 5 other people join makes it a pyramid scheme. It doesn't matter that it's operating on IOUs instead of actual cash-money.
No, what makes it a pyramid scheme is having those "5 other people" pay you to join in, and the way the whole thing collapses once you run out of other people. This system does not share those characteristics.
As you're so fond of saying elsewhere, words have meanings.
-
@masonwheeler Fine; whatever it is, it's skeevy as fuck.
-
@blakeyrat ...then why did you sign up?
-
@masonwheeler I already posted that up-thread.
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
After you get to critical mass, get the world's top talent to design the ideal payment network
Visa, MasterCard, et al. already have the critical mass and the talent. What makes you think you can do better?
-
@hardwaregeek said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
After you get to critical mass, get the world's top talent to design the ideal payment network
Visa, MasterCard, et al. already have the critical mass and the talent. What makes you think you can do better?
They have critical mass for their current network. If they want to build a new one, no one will come.
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
@hardwaregeek said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
After you get to critical mass, get the world's top talent to design the ideal payment network
Visa, MasterCard, et al. already have the critical mass and the talent. What makes you think you can do better?
They have critical mass for their current network. If they want to build a new one, no one will come.
-
@blakeyrat said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
Yeah, Q-tip, give Blakey his money.
I hereby agree and recognize that Q's are worth $1USD. That is now consensus. If you do not release Blakey's funds immediately, I will be in touch with the SEC and FBI.How are you making a demand for money without prefacing it with "fuck you"? Damn man, it just doesn't work.
I'm saving that for when I ask for my $Q
-
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
I hereby agree and recognize that Q's are worth $1USD. That is now consensus. If you do not release Blakey's funds immediately, I will be in touch with the SEC and FBI.
Can this be the fastest we've turned a "Hi I'm From X" person salty?
-
@hardwaregeek said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
Also, you're presenting a cookie notification, but no way to decline it. You don't understand what a cookie notification is for, do you?
Toby Faire, that's not unique; that criticism is true of 99.9% of the cookie notifications on the web.
But these guys Care About Privacy. If that was so, they'd allow me to decline cookies (or even better, decline by default, have to opt-in).
Maybe the user data they're collecting is a bit more valuable-for-resale than this side of their mouth claims.
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
After you get to critical mass, get the world's top talent to design the ideal payment network, and have them focus on functionality and efficiency, rather than "how do I get users to adopt it, even though no one is using it yet".
You know why sites get critical mass?
Because people can fucking use it. It actually DOES something.
Facebook didn't start as "Sign up and look at this
.gif until we figure out how to actually do Teh Codez".Why would anyone, let alone a critical amount of people, sign up for a service that does nothing?
And if a critical mass of people sign up, you owe them millions upon millions of dollars, and you have no income. What makes you think you can hire the top talent?
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Enough
So you're saying you won't pay out what you've promised? That your currency is worthless, and your own words can't be trusted?
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
We're not aiming to replace every single financial transaction in the world. Just to be the best solution for most.
Why do you turn my dentist office into a house of lies?
"By joining, you increase the chances of success, and accelerate the transformation of the payment industry — a change that will benefit everyone, leading to lower costs, less fraud, fewer scams, and eliminating the need for cash and plastic."
You also specifically seem to be targeting people who would be excluded in my scenario(s):
"Helping the unbanked: Connecting to the world economy the billions who don’t have access to financial services."
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Great questions, and there is no single answer how to best balance all the considerations. However, note that this is not a new concept: checks and carbon copy credit card are offline transactions.
All of which are backed by hundreds of years of banking regulations and practices. So-- you don't have any answers then. Gotcha.
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Yes, because feedback can only be collected once in your lifetime.
.... this is the single stupidest thing you've said yet.
If I was going to open a lemonade stand, I'd want to do at least SOME market research. Things like-- how do I make lemonade. Do people even like lemonade? What time of year should I open? Who are my competitors? What is the market price? Are there any health & Safety regulations I should be aware of? How will I stop people from just taking free lemonade?
What you're proposing is "I'm going to open a lemonade stand that will give out free lemonade to the first Big Bunch of people, but only once all the Big Bunch is there, and then I'll maybe figure out how to make lemonade, maybe? I dunno".
And then you open a stand in the middle of winter in a backalley behind starbucks, and the only employee is a Hep-A positive hobo who likes to cut himself. But it's okay, because you'll figure out the rest.
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Of course, but having a payment network with an exclusive currency is what allows us to get wide adoption.
What will you do when Q currency is traced to buying and selling child porn?
What will you tell the US when they find Q currency is being used to fund terrorism?
The same thing banks and PayPal do - Follow all regulations and report accordingly.
So you are excluding people. And why would you follow regulations on currencies that aren't yours?
What happens when China says you aren't allowed to do business with Russia?
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Thank you!
No, don't do basic research into the idea! That'd ruin your entire business model!
-
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
This doesn't seem like such an incredible prediction to me. It's been about a decade since the introduction of the iPhone brought smartphones into the mainstream, and today they're just about everywhere, worldwide. Another decade is plenty of time to fill in the margins.
https://i.imgur.com/22emfJn.png
lol.. for extra fun, I grabbed that image from a random google image search of "Disco Stu Trends", which lead me to someone using it on Twitter for.. well...
-
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
But the most important feedback I have for you is: I want my goddamned money. Where's my fucking money? I got you 5 email addresses, you owe me $60,000 or something ridiculous, pay up.
Hey, Mason. If you open a business offering free money, and then don't deliver on the money-- do you think people are going to go
or react in the way that Blakey is clearly putting on?If Qbert can't deal with one intentional troll on a forum demanding their money... wow.
-
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
Which does not make it a pyramid scheme
It is literally a pyramid scheme.
People on top recruit people beneath them, and make "money" off of it.
Those people need to recruit people to make any "money" out of it.
And so forth.
You've seen the pyramid. You just don't know what scam it's made out of yet. Suzy-Q is waiting to get "critical mass" before he reveals how he'll bilk people.
I'm still guessing he'll say "To withdraw your $50,000, you have to give us your banking details and wire us $500 for processing, which we'll refund..."
-
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Yes, because feedback can only be collected once in your lifetime.
.... this is the single stupidest thing you've said yet.
If I was going to open a lemonade stand, I'd want to do at least SOME market research. Things like-- how do I make lemonade. Do people even like lemonade? What time of year should I open? Who are my competitors? What is the market price? Are there any health & Safety regulations I should be aware of? How will I stop people from just taking free lemonade?
What you're proposing is "I'm going to open a lemonade stand that will give out free lemonade to the first Big Bunch of people, but only once all the Big Bunch is there, and then I'll maybe figure out how to make lemonade, maybe? I dunno".
-
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Yes, because feedback can only be collected once in your lifetime.
.... this is the single stupidest thing you've said yet.
If I was going to open a lemonade stand, I'd want to do at least SOME market research. Things like-- how do I make lemonade. Do people even like lemonade? What time of year should I open? Who are my competitors? What is the market price? Are there any health & Safety regulations I should be aware of? How will I stop people from just taking free lemonade?
What you're proposing is "I'm going to open a lemonade stand that will give out free lemonade to the first Big Bunch of people, but only once all the Big Bunch is there, and then I'll maybe figure out how to make lemonade, maybe? I dunno".
It's not whoosh. He's being sarcastic and saying he can launch his platform, and get feedback later.
I'm saying that if you're launching without having gotten feedback about even the most basic fucking things like those we're bringing up in the thread-- assuming that you can always get feedback later-- then The Thirst Quencher is being a delusional idiot.
-
@hardwaregeek said in Money from nowhere?:
Visa, MasterCard, et al. already have the critical mass and the talent. What makes you think you can do better?
Our system could work without Visa and Mastercard, most of the work is done by acquiring banks.
-
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
It's not whoosh. He's being sarcastic and saying he can launch his platform, and get feedback later.
It depends on what you mean by "his platform." He's said multiple times that they're launching...memberships? And once they have enough memberships they will come and build it for him.
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
I'm saying that if you're launching without having gotten feedback about even the most basic fucking things like those we're bringing up in the thread-- assuming that you can always get feedback later-- then The Thirst Quencher is being a delusional idiot.
They're just building community! (Someone posted somewhere around here a video of some guy giving a talk at a conference and making fun of the "building a community" meme of startups. Imagine that I posted that video here.)
No, the real scam is on the investors who are funding this stuff. Except that in the end maybe they'll end up with some conventional payment processing platform that might actually make money once the delusions have worn off and people start wondering how they'll eventually see any return on the money they gave to these guys.
-
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
Maybe the user data they're collecting is a bit more valuable-for-resale than this side of their mouth claims.
Or they're geo-locating you, so they know you're in the US and can rape you. The Europeans get the Cancel button.
-
@dcon said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
Maybe the user data they're collecting is a bit more valuable-for-resale than this side of their mouth claims.
Or they're geo-locating you, so they know you're in the US and can rape you. The Europeans get the Cancel button.
Yeah, but at least we'll still have real websites to use. In a few years Europe will have regulated itself back to the geocities age.
-
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
Qbert
Don't insult Qbert! ...
on the other hand, Qbert does jump around on a pyramid...
-
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Yes, because feedback can only be collected once in your lifetime.
.... this is the single stupidest thing you've said yet.
If I was going to open a lemonade stand, I'd want to do at least SOME market research. Things like-- how do I make lemonade. Do people even like lemonade? What time of year should I open? Who are my competitors? What is the market price? Are there any health & Safety regulations I should be aware of? How will I stop people from just taking free lemonade?
What you're proposing is "I'm going to open a lemonade stand that will give out free lemonade to the first Big Bunch of people, but only once all the Big Bunch is there, and then I'll maybe figure out how to make lemonade, maybe? I dunno".
It's not whoosh. He's being sarcastic and saying he can launch his platform, and get feedback later.
No, that's not what he said at all. Apparently
-grade reading comprehension is spreading. 
Go back and read it again, this time without your Cynicism Goggles on.
-
@blakeyrat said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
Yeah, Q-tip, give Blakey his money.
I hereby agree and recognize that Q's are worth $1USD. That is now consensus. If you do not release Blakey's funds immediately, I will be in touch with the SEC and FBI.How are you making a demand for money without prefacing it with "fuck you"? Damn man, it just doesn't work.
You need to reword it for it to work.
Try "Fuck Q, give me money!"
-
@boomzilla said in Money from nowhere?:
It depends on what you mean by "his platform." He's said multiple times that they're launching...memberships? And once they have enough memberships they will come and build it for him.
Vaporware! But without the Vapors!
-
@boomzilla said in Money from nowhere?:
Except that in the end maybe they'll end up with some conventional payment processing platform that might actually make money once the delusions have worn off and people start wondering how they'll eventually see any return on the money they gave to these guys.
But with conventional money there is no bridge for them to convert our Qs to money. Maybe they'll create a side company for that, but Q itself would die in this process. The best we can hope for is something like Microsoft points or Smiles.
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Well, sports is different. It's entertainment. Here we are talking about business. You're trying to be as efficient as possible.
There are entire industries built around inefficiencies. Car dealerships. Health care. Income taxes. Speeding tickets in Virginia.
The idea is to bring the best minds in the payment industry to work in an environment where they aren't burdened by critical mass limitations. So first we need to create that environment.
I have a feeling you're gonna need a ton of VC to even keep the lights on for that. I worked at a ten-man shop a decade ago where the developers were paid about 50-75% the local rate, and the CEO said the company's monthly running costs were about $100k per month. Now, if you want the best and brightest, you're probably going to want to pay around $200k salaries, if not higher. How long exactly is it going to take this crack team to build this perfect system?
We're definitely not dismissing everything just because it's old. If you read through our papers, you can see that in many cases we are choosing to copy concepts from credit card networks and government currencies.
That's all well and good as long as you're planning on your implementation of these ideas to be bug-ridden for the first few iterations.
There is constant movement of talent between the leading players in the field, so everyone knows what the others are using. Of course, the specific models and code are secret, but the approach and technologies are well known.
Interesting. In the industry I work, if you did that and didn't get your pants sued off for breaking an NDA/non-compete, you might also face criminal charges.
They would upgrade quickly if all consumers had an alternative they preferred.
Perhaps.
Not familiar with this exact scenario, but I assume a smartphone-to-POS, or smartphone-to-smartphone transaction would work.
I'll see if I can pool opinions next time I'm out. Thing is, I'm in my 30's and am on the younger tail of the age distribution there, so yeah....
We actually think steps 2 and 3 are very difficult. But step 1 is what makes them maybe possible. If there was certainty they would succeed a Q would be worth close to $1 today...
There are of course many plans we didn't yet publish, but to be modest - most of the innovation will come in the future from bringing the best talent in the industry. And for that, we need to achieve step 1.Well, then may you hire the best and brightest and not bleed to death from the negative cashflow in the process.
-
@sockpuppet7 said in Money from nowhere?:
The best we can hope for is something like Microsoft points or Smiles.
Ah there's a thought. They could take over all these loyalty rewards programs so you could choose what to buy instead of whatever they want to give you.
-
@pie_flavor said in Money from nowhere?:
Blockchain solved that by making it impossible for anyone to steal without having majority control over the network.
And then 51% of the nodes end up behind the Great Firewall and suddenly your anarcho-capitalist wet dream is at the mercy of a government.
-
@twelvebaud said in Money from nowhere?:
Not yet in Bumblefuck County about an hour away from work, but the Capitol Wasteland's sprawl will claim it eventually, and bring with it new meters.
I learned to stop worrying and love the Sprawl when I realized that new construction is still miles further from the city than I am, and my property's value should go up, up, up in response.
I have, and customs and tariffs have far outweighed currency exchange fees for added costs.
I used to play a F2P game hosted in Europe around the time Greece was screwing things over with their insolvency, and it was far better for me to pay in EUR than USD. Good times.
Several toll roads here require those devices, and don't take any other form of payment. And they already have a cabal they're part of.
Some local toll roads also have dynamic pricing and only offer the vaguest of rationalizations as to why a ten mile trip should cost twenty bucks or more.
-
@dcon said in Money from nowhere?:
@boomzilla said in Money from nowhere?:
It depends on what you mean by "his platform." He's said multiple times that they're launching...memberships? And once they have enough memberships they will come and build it for him.
Vaporware! But without the Vapors!
I think they've got that covered.
-
@groaner said in Money from nowhere?:
I learned to stop worrying and love the Sprawl when I realized that new construction is still miles further from the city than I am, and my property's value should go up, up, up in response.
I hope you live in CA - or have a Prop13-like thing. Or your property taxes will go up the same way!
-
@groaner said in Money from nowhere?:
and my property's value should go up, up, up in response.
If all property goes up, the cost of moving to a better one increases. It's only good when it's just yours that's going up.
-
@hardwaregeek said in Money from nowhere?:
@dcon said in Money from nowhere?:
Here in CA, the Golden Gate bridge.
GG bridge is FasTrack only now? Well, I guess I'll never drive up to Marin again. (But that's ok; I'd have to go through SF, and any reason to avoid that shithole is a good reason.) I don't have FasTrack, and I never will. I cross a toll bridge (in the toll direction) about once every 5 years, so there's no reason for me to have one.
In the cases I've found myself needing to cross the Golden Gate Bridge, a combination of 680 and the Bay Bridge has worked well.
-
@groaner said in Money from nowhere?:
and my property's value should go up, up, up in response.
Which is meaningless (and possibly counterproductive, as it causes your taxes to rise) unless you plan on selling the place.
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
This is the first forum to discuss Q (remember we haven't officially launched yet, just sent the link to a few friends), so it's a great way for us to collect feedback.
You launched a currency plan without ever getting feedback?
Yes, because feedback can only be collected once in your lifetime.
Ooh, I like the new Sassy Ben from Initiative Q V2.0! Rapid iteration to adapt to the community's norms!
-
@groaner said in Money from nowhere?:
In the cases I've found myself needing to cross the Golden Gate Bridge, a combination of 680 and the Bay Bridge has worked well.
If you do it right, you can avoid paying any tolls at all.
- North on the GG
- South on 580
I often do that when heading to a show in the north bay (from the south bay). Both routes have minuses: - GG means going thru SF (usually on 19th Ave). Surface streets suck.
- 580 means going thru Oakland. Traffic sucks.
-
@lorne-kates I think I figured out who's downvoting you, and it isn't @initiativeq. Paging @Polygeekery, you have experience in dealing with this
-
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
I wanna sell it. Right now. Where's the page for that. I can't find it.
You seem to have a problem grasping the concept of time.
I dunno, guys. Ben from Initiative Q V6.0* has already determined the correct way to interact with blakey in such a short timespan. Maybe they do have something special!
*Clearly a Chrome/Firefox versioning scheme.
-
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@masonwheeler said in Money from nowhere?:
@lorne-kates said in Money from nowhere?:
@initiativeq said in Money from nowhere?:
Yes, because feedback can only be collected once in your lifetime.
.... this is the single stupidest thing you've said yet.
If I was going to open a lemonade stand, I'd want to do at least SOME market research. Things like-- how do I make lemonade. Do people even like lemonade? What time of year should I open? Who are my competitors? What is the market price? Are there any health & Safety regulations I should be aware of? How will I stop people from just taking free lemonade?
What you're proposing is "I'm going to open a lemonade stand that will give out free lemonade to the first Big Bunch of people, but only once all the Big Bunch is there, and then I'll maybe figure out how to make lemonade, maybe? I dunno".
It's not whoosh. He's being sarcastic and saying he can launch his platform, and get feedback later.
No, that's not what he said at all. Apparently
-grade reading comprehension is spreading. Go back and read it again, this time without your Cynicism Goggles on.It seems to have spread most recently to you, then, if you believe that's not what he said.
-
@sockpuppet7 said in Money from nowhere?:
I'm proposing we use air as money. Anyone interested just fill a balloon with air. When everyone has a balloon full of air, our target will be for it to be worth US$ 100.00
Then, get a lit match and hold it under each of the balloons until they pop. Only then will people see the scheme for what it really was: a bunch of hot air.
-
@groaner said in Money from nowhere?:
@pie_flavor said in Money from nowhere?:
Blockchain solved that by making it impossible for anyone to steal without having majority control over the network.
And then 51% of the nodes end up behind the Great Firewall and suddenly your anarcho-capitalist wet dream is at the mercy of a government.
It's not my anarcho-capitalist wet dream. Bitcoin is still retarded. I'm just saying that it was a good idea at all, and remains in use, entirely because of its guaranteed lack of centralization.
Vapours (mental condition) - Wikipedia
