Distracted Kid
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@karla Seems like it'd be a pretty common occurrence, given the heated debates over whether or not it's hereditary. They never got formal diagnoses, but I know that my dad and his dad have what I have.
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@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@xaade From my experience, Things that work/ don't work are extremely specific from child to child. I would gently suggest you to not just get a second opinion but another one after that if possible. Did you bring her to a doctor yet?
I get to talk to teacher today, will schedule doctor after I find out what's going on.
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@e4tmyl33t said in Distracted Kid:
@pie_flavor Nonbinary gender identity issues that conflict with the biology the universe unfortunately assigned me with. Tends to conflict with general thinkings of "normal", because there's nothing "normal" about it.
My personal approach to normality is to just not care about it at all. I follow my own urges, and as long as there is no harm to others, sod their opinions on what is proper. I no not know what gender identity issues feel like, apart from what pretty much everyone experiences through their teens. I have serious mental incompatabilities with how humans are supposed to think and function in social interactions, nothing hostile. I just don't tick the way others seem to. And it literally tore me to shreds trying to be normal for the first 16-20 years of my life, until I just gave being normal up completely, and instead started to just be whomever it was that I am, while also facing and beating my own fears and issues.
I hope you'll figure out how to make life less of a chore and more of something that can be enjoyed.
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@carnage said in Distracted Kid:
I just don't tick the way others seem to.
This, though I haven't been through what you have I did come to the same conclusion. A great philosopher once said "I am what I am" and I've always kept this in mind.
Re. the OP - Have you examined diet in any way? Sugary foods or foods high in additives can have effects similar to what you describe.
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@boner said in Distracted Kid:
Re. the OP - Have you examined diet in any way? Sugary foods or foods high in additives can have effects similar to what you describe.
Also, food coloring have an unexpectedly big impact on behaviour. Greter than sugar.
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@carnage WOMM. Although - when you say trying to be normal, do you mean in regards to everything, or just in regards to social interaction?
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@pie_flavor said in Distracted Kid:
@carnage WOMM. Although - when you say trying to be normal, do you mean in regards to everything, or just in regards to social interaction?
Not sure what you mean here. Where does social interaction end according to you?
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@carnage said in Distracted Kid:
@pie_flavor said in Distracted Kid:
@carnage WOMM. Although - when you say trying to be normal, do you mean in regards to everything, or just in regards to social interaction?
Not sure what you mean here. Where does social interaction end according to you?
Well, if you have voices in your head, then never...
Sorry, couldn't help myselves.
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IMO, you'd need to distinguish between "incapable to concentrate" (as in need of seeking medical advice) and "not interested".
Say, can she concentrate on other things like games or reading? Is there some kind of music that when she listens, will tell you do-not-disturb?
Btw, the observations you see can also result from something like low-blood-pressure so her brain don't get enough fuel. And if specific to performance in class, it could also be caused by weakened eye-sight/hearing capability.
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@cheong ADHD doesn't stop you from concentrating in interesting things, it's the opposite, it makes you overfocus on those.
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@boner said in Distracted Kid:
A great philosopher once said "I am what I am" and I've always kept this in mind.
(Red Dwarf)
"Great philosopher? You mean Pop-Eye the sailor man?"
"Yeah, that was a really wise dude."
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@carnage said in Distracted Kid:
@pie_flavor said in Distracted Kid:
@carnage WOMM. Although - when you say trying to be normal, do you mean in regards to everything, or just in regards to social interaction?
Not sure what you mean here. Where does social interaction end according to you?
I mean like, normal 'being able to hold a conversation' vs normal 'being physically active and liking parties etc.'
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@sockpuppet7 said in Distracted Kid:
@cheong ADHD doesn't stop you from concentrating in interesting things, it's the opposite, it makes you overfocus on those.
Me read the original post again:
I'm dealing with my daughter getting to the point where she is more distracted than she isn't. She's zoned out and won't pay attention. She doesn't mean to be this way, it's not intentional.
Humm... Is "zoned out" and "won't pay attention" overfocus?
Btw, I think it's normal with our profession to seek ruling out "hardware" problem before start working on "software" ones.
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This post is deleted!
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@cheong said in Distracted Kid:
Humm... Is "zoned out" and "won't pay attention" overfocus?
We overfocus on interesting things and zone out on boring things. Like normal people, but in a much larger scale. The description make it look like it's no big deal, but it can get really crippling.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Distracted Kid:
@cheong said in Distracted Kid:
Humm... Is "zoned out" and "won't pay attention" overfocus?
We overfocus on interesting things and zone out on boring things. Like normal people, but in a much larger scale. The description make it look like it's no big deal, but it can get really crippling.
People with problems that I listed could be unable to concentrate on anything, regardless of whether they were interested on these or not. I was talking about conditions on other body parts that prevents the brain from functioning adequately, and by the way more common.
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@xaade said in Distracted Kid:
She zones out for lengthy periods of time, can't finish dinner, doesn't recognize people talking to her at all while zoned out, and loses track of everything she was doing.
I'm as far from being a medical doctor as one can get, but I got curious by your description can this be some kind of epilepsy or an epilepsy-like syndrome — except instead of seizures you get a trance? Turns out it's a thing, and it's called absence seizures. Maybe you'll want to rule those out.
It's one thing if a kid drops into some kind of fantasyland because she wants to escape what's boring for her, and totally another if her timeline skips minutes or half-hours without her having a say.
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I'll echo @Karla and @pie_flavor here. I do think in the 90s ADHD was this big overinflated thing that pretty much every kid who yearned for having recess all day had, and I think it was totally overprescribed. But, that doesn't make ADHD a fake disorder. It is very real, and I don't think it's fair to look back on how easily it was diagnosed and prescribed for and dismiss anyone's claim that they truly have a problem with paying attention and spacing out that medication can solve, even if temporarily solve until they grow up.
From the description @xaade has offered, I can safely say that it does indicate something that is more severe than anything I ever had, or most of my peers who were similarly considered having ADD. Whether this is, in fact, ADHD or something else is best determined by a professional. All I can advise xaade is if you have any kind of inkling that something is amiss in the diagnosis, by all means follow your instinct and get a second opinion.
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@hardwaregeek said in Distracted Kid:
Or you realize it's 03:00 and you have to get up for work in two hours, and you've never gotten around to eating dinner. (I've definitely done that.)
I still do that reading books...
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@xaade Well, what did the doctor say?
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@e4tmyl33t said in Distracted Kid:
@pie_flavor Nonbinary gender identity issues that conflict with the biology the universe unfortunately assigned me with. Tends to conflict with general thinkings of "normal", because there's nothing "normal" about it.
Hear hear! There's no such thing as True normal. There's something "off" with everyone, if you look hard enough...
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@carnage said in Distracted Kid:
I have serious mental incompatabilities with how humans are supposed to think and function in social interactions, nothing hostile. I just don't tick the way others seem to.
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@xaade said in Distracted Kid:
@carnage said in Distracted Kid:
@pie_flavor said in Distracted Kid:
@carnage WOMM. Although - when you say trying to be normal, do you mean in regards to everything, or just in regards to social interaction?
Not sure what you mean here. Where does social interaction end according to you?
Well, if you have voices in your head, then never...
Sorry, couldn't help myselves.
It used to be one of my bigger priorities to improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios, so...
I think in common parlance that's called worrying about what others think, I guess?
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@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
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@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
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@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
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@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
What do you mean? Trying to optimize is almost always fun!
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@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
What do you mean? Trying to optimize is almost always fun!
Optimizing the wrong parameter? I don't know man, I'm missing a lot of context here.
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@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
What do you mean? Trying to optimize is almost always fun!
Optimizing the wrong parameter? I don't know man, I'm missing a lot of context here.
Perhaps.
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@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
I think "strategically planning out social verbal interactions" is closer to the truth than daydreaming about it.
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@carnage said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
I think "strategically planning out social verbal interactions" is closer to the truth than daydreaming about it.
Which can still be fun! But yes, I'm trying to (what's the buzzword?) mansplain it? It's otherwise difficult (and outside the scope of this topic) to more accurately describe my systems of operation...
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@the_quiet_one said in Distracted Kid:
safely say that it does indicate something that is more severe than anything I ever had, or most of my peers who were similarly considered having ADD.
ADHD can be very severe, or I was misdiagnosed. Look at www.reddit.com/r/adhd for examples.
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So, today, she ran off and hid in a closet near the bathroom because some kid said they had a disease and my daughter was scared she was going to get it. Later she was given a project and just stared at it not doing a thing.
I don't get it. I know she has difficulties, but they seem outrageously exaggerated when she's at school.
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@xaade said in Distracted Kid:
So, today, she ran off and hid in a closet near the bathroom because some kid said they had a disease and my daughter was scared she was going to get it. Later she was given a project and just stared at it not doing a thing.
I don't get it. I know she has difficulties, but they seem outrageously exaggerated when she's at school.
Generally there's more concentration in school activities and the teacher probably doesn't hound her as much as you guys maybe do at home.
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@mikehurley said in Distracted Kid:
the teacher probably doesn't hound her as much as you guys maybe do at home.
That's the thing. We have to get on her a lot to keep her focused. We have to raise our voices often to get her to snap out of it. Not being mean or anything, just loud and in her face.
Teachers aren't willing to do that because they're afraid they'll hurt the kids, but if I have to pick between a cry or two and being held back a grade...
Now that I think about it, I noticed this problem when she was in daycare. She'd act out, we'd advance her to the next class and the problem would go away. She gets bored if she's mastered material.
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@xaade said in Distracted Kid:
Teachers aren't willing to do that because they're afraid they'll hurt the kids, but if I have to pick between a cry or two and being held back a grade...
No, we aren't willing to do that because we have 25 other kids to also care about and cannot watch over a single kid 24/7.
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@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios
What does this even..
He describes himself (and maybe even believes it, but this being the internet...eh?) as a robot with all these different personality modules and stuff.
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@rhywden said in Distracted Kid:
No, we aren't willing to do that because we have 25 other kids to also care about and cannot watch over a single kid 24/7.
I meant raising their voice.
I don't expect that much attention.
But teachers have no avenue to interrupt a disobedient child these days.
Disclaimer, I'm not blaming her teacher. There's something going on at the school that isn't going on at home. I've asked the teacher to look out for any bullying.
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@xaade said in Distracted Kid:
@rhywden said in Distracted Kid:
No, we aren't willing to do that because we have 25 other kids to also care about and cannot watch over a single kid 24/7.
I meant raising their voice.
That still means watching your kid like a hawk to see if she's paying attention. There's a lot of stuff going on which you have to juggle as a teacher at nearly the same time:
a) Watch for kids acting out.
b) Look for kids who don't pay attention
c) Answer questions
d) Keep your plan in the back of your mind
e) Adjust said plan on the fly when things don't work the way you planned
f) Invent stuff when something happens you didn't plan for at all.
g) Give proper feedback to answers by the pupils
h) Give proper instructions on how to do things
i) Maintain disciplineThere are probably things I've forgotten in that list. Seriously, the number of tasks we have to handle is one of the reasons why a single kid with issues won't get the attention he or she deserves during the lessons - we've got a priority list (sometimes it's more like triage...) and, honestly, a kid which just sits there and does nothing?
Pretty low on that list.
We do see that, though, and will get to that. After class, however, when the storm has passed.
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@boomzilla said in Distracted Kid:
He describes himself (and maybe even believes it, but this being the internet...eh?) as a robot with all these different personality modules and stuff.
On the Internet, no one knows you're a robot?
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@rhywden said in Distracted Kid:
We do see that, though, and will get to that. After class, however, when the
storm has passedincident is no longer fresh in the kid's mind.FTFY. The "fail fast" principle applies in the context of child psychology at least as much as it does in the context of programming.
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@masonwheeler said in Distracted Kid:
@rhywden said in Distracted Kid:
We do see that, though, and will get to that. After class, however, when the
storm has passedincident is no longer fresh in the kid's mind.FTFY. The "fail fast" principle applies in the context of child psychology at least as much as it does in the context of programming.
As I said, there are 25 other kids. Priorities.
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@rhywden said in Distracted Kid:
@masonwheeler said in Distracted Kid:
@rhywden said in Distracted Kid:
We do see that, though, and will get to that. After class, however, when the
storm has passedincident is no longer fresh in the kid's mind.FTFY. The "fail fast" principle applies in the context of child psychology at least as much as it does in the context of programming.
As I said, there are 25 other kids. Priorities.
Yes, yes, I know. I get it.
I'm not expecting my child to get more than her fair share of attention.
OTOH, this is why public education systems struggle to teach children anything. I know it's difficult, and I'm sorry if it comes off offensive. However, I'd more than gladly take a voucher and get a private tutor. But I can't afford that and pay the government to not teach my kid.
Alternatively, I'd even be willing to pay the government an extra fee for a smaller classroom, but complete government take-over has me in a position where I can't get the education my kid needs.
So, probably going to have to drug her up, or quit my job and homeschool.
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@xaade said in Distracted Kid:
@mikehurley said in Distracted Kid:
the teacher probably doesn't hound her as much as you guys maybe do at home.
That's the thing. We have to get on her a lot to keep her focused. We have to raise our voices often to get her to snap out of it. Not being mean or anything, just loud and in her face.
Teachers aren't willing to do that because they're afraid they'll hurt the kids, but if I have to pick between a cry or two and being held back a grade...
Now that I think about it, I noticed this problem when she was in daycare. She'd act out, we'd advance her to the next class and the problem would go away. She gets bored if she's mastered material.
This isn't a matter of obedience or discipline. If you resort to 'loud and in her face' then that might work in the short term, but I'm fairly sure that you'll stack up future problems.
Set up a non-judgemental situation and ask your daughter to explain what's going on. She probably won't have a solution but might have more insight than her teachers or a medic who's seen her only briefly.
You probably can't directly make early-years schooling less boring for her, but you may be able to negotiate your way around some of the problems - finding ways to (in conjunction with her teachers) extend some of the work to keep your daughter engaged. More importantly there might be compromises to be made - ways to circumvent some of the worst (most pointless/tedious) stuff that she may be confronted with. Skipping some levels in a maths or reading scheme etc, finding an interesting project for her to pursue in her free time (supported by you and the school).
I think that I can relate to some of what your daughter is doing. At seven I was passively rebellious against most of what I was expected to do at school - by which I mean that I simply didn't do it - I didn't act up I just sat and daydreamed. Given a maths or reading comprehension task that I resented as pointless or repetitious I just disengaged. Things that I could have done in ten minutes I could stretch to four hours or more.
Stubborn people like me are very difficult to contend with (I'm weird but I'm not ADHD or similar). At seven I was amenable to negotiation - e.g. one of the solutions was to let me use ditto marks rather than to write out repetitive answers long-form. That sounds trite, but for me as a seven year old it was fundamental. I can't quite remember my mindset now, but it was partly a matter of an adult giving some ground (but only a limited defined amount) on a stupid matter of efficiency. I still had to do the work but, very slightly, it was on my terms.
There are definite limits to the concessions that can or should be made to a young child - but there are some - provided that the terms are understood and adhered to by both sides.
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@japonicus said in Distracted Kid:
This isn't a matter of obedience or discipline.
Pretty sure that's exactly what this is. Just that she has added barriers and difficulty to achieve that.
@japonicus said in Distracted Kid:
If you resort to 'loud and in her face'
It's not loud and mad. It's just loud and in front of her, where I am visible.
@japonicus said in Distracted Kid:
I resented as pointless or repetitious I just disengaged.
I can't really get that out of her. I'm assuming it's the case, but it may be more subconscious than that.
@japonicus said in Distracted Kid:
Stubborn people like me are very difficult to contend with (I'm weird but I'm not ADHD or similar). At seven I was amenable to negotiation - e.g. one of the solutions was to let me use ditto marks rather than to write out repetitive answers long-form. That sounds trite, but for me as a seven year old it was fundamental. I can't quite remember my mindset now, but it was partly a matter of an adult giving some ground (but only a limited defined amount) on a stupid matter of efficiency. I still had to do the work but, very slightly, it was on my terms.
I'll see if I can find one of these that'll work.
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@xaade said in Distracted Kid:
@japonicus said in Distracted Kid:
This isn't a matter of obedience or discipline.
Pretty sure that's exactly what this is. Just that she has added barriers and difficulty to achieve that.
Yes. But yelling in her face isn't a solution. It's a stop-gap measure to treat the symptom.
As you've seen yourself this doesn't work as soon as there's noone to yell at her. This is a short-term attempt which is not fruitful because at some point she'll have to do things on her own.
Also, yes, sometimes drugs are the solution. Though in this case it's more an attention deficiency - the hyperkinetic part is missing which is usually what the usual drugs you heard about are aimed at. And sometimes you only need drugs in the beginning - you use them to get a behavioural change and when you've reinforced that enough, you phase them out again - that would be the ideal outcome.
Not that I'm saying that she definitely needs them - that's for someone else to decide who's properly studied that stuff for several years.
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@masonwheeler said in Distracted Kid:
@boomzilla said in Distracted Kid:
He describes himself (and maybe even believes it, but this being the internet...eh?) as a robot with all these different personality modules and stuff.
On the Internet, no one knows you're a robot?
Robot, android, cybernetic organism, something else....
Just how many parts that act, look, feel, and behave like a duck until you actually have a duck?
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@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
Wait, you don't run through possible conversations in your head, rehearsing them until you come up with a good way to phrase things and planned responses to the things you anticipate the other person might say?
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@scarlet_manuka said in Distracted Kid:
@stillwater said in Distracted Kid:
@tsaukpaetra said in Distracted Kid:
So, you know how "dreaming" works, right? And day-dreaming is basically "dreaming with intent"? Just read that like I was day-dreaming about talking to people.
Well why would you daydream about something that's not inherently that fun?
Wait, you don't run through possible conversations in your head, rehearsing them until you come up with a good way to phrase things and planned responses to the things you anticipate the other person might say?
And then, after all that work, other people go off-script. It's so rude of them!
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@mzh said in Distracted Kid:
And then, after all that work, other people go off-script. It's so rude of them!
Well, that's why @Tsaukpaetra mentioned "improve accuracy of social interaction prediction scenarios" as a goal, so you can come up with a script with a better chance of being followed.
