Microsoft Outlook and APFS
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@dkf cool, thanks for that. I was just spitballing as to possible things that would break this beyond case sensitivity.
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@arantor Yeah. I was just picking up on the fact that there's several different normalised forms. (Composed and Decomposed.) Because of course there is. And of course someone (Apple) just has to use the other bloody one.
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The case-insensitive version of APFS is apparently normalization-preserving. It seems to me an application would have to work hard to break on that.
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@gurth said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
Which has me wondering: what could possibly be the reason for Outlook’s ability to read messages to depend on the file system you use …?!
Having actually read the article now (heh!) I'd guess it either relates to something weird with extended attributes and crappy coding (OSX's use of these is quite smart, but I suspect that Apple won't have broken things here as it would make a lot of needless work for themselves), or to really odd behaviour with the way Outlook does atomic updates to message stores that doesn't work well with the way APFS does copy-on-write semantics when actually writing to disk (the FS supports “copying” effectively by linking, except when you write through the link it separates those sectors for that particular file at that point; that's pretty smart provided they also remembered to keep file locking separate).
So yeah, that's on MS to fix. I really don't want to know what they did to break when faced with APFS.
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@weng said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@arantor said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@tsaukpaetra that reminds me, someone around here said that macOS stored in UTF-8 but it used the denormalised form rather than the normalised form.
This would certainly qualify too.
Why the hell would it matter?
Filenames are references and may be used across system boundaries. There are two normalized forms and if your filesystem forces one of them there will be when you interface with systems that don't.
Shirley every filesystem API therefore decomposes it's inputs.
They don't all. It's an Apple speciality.
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@createdtodislikethis said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
such suggestions will include the correct case if needed, and the UI can even auto-correct me if it wishes to
Ah - DWIM...
$ rm -rf / I think you meant `rm -rf / --no-preserve-root` Deleting / ..... $ ls operation not permitted.
@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
Not "they are all implemented the exact same way".
That's not what he said. You're making up something stupid and pretended he said it.
But why not just make-up something stupid, pretend I said it,
Bit like you just did there you mean?
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
Nope, still the OS. (Or, more specifically the filesystem.) Case-sensitive file systems are moronic idiot open source-y "fuck our users" thinking. Which is why it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Apple made that the default.
Ah yes, Apple, that renowned bastion of Open Source thought and development...
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@masonwheeler What, you're saying you don't use a Darwin-based distro?
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@magus said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@masonwheeler What, you're saying you don't use a Darwin-based distro?
One could argue that everything is Darwin-based.
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@kt_ Except software.
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Read a couple articles on APFS from the earlier betas which made me go . At least comments on the later article points towards some of the issues being solved in the High Sierra beta, at least in the case-insensitive version. Because the findings from the Sierra beta version showed the comparisions between same names using different encodings (NFC vs NFD) being on the level of JavaScript comparisions with different results depending on the method used.
Also, nice consistency from Apple where iOS uses case-sensitive APFS and macOS will use case-insensitive APFS.
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@pjh said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@createdtodislikethis said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
such suggestions will include the correct case if needed, and the UI can even auto-correct me if it wishes to
Ah - DWIM...
$ rm -rf / I think you meant `rm -rf / --no-preserve-root` Deleting / ..... $ ls operation not permitted.
Sounds like you invented a less harmful version of this OS:
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@atazhaia said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
comparisions between same names using different encodings (NFC vs NFD)
Normalize before comparison! It's the sort of thing that you actually staple inside the OS's API.
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@ben_lubar said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@pjh said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@createdtodislikethis said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
such suggestions will include the correct case if needed, and the UI can even auto-correct me if it wishes to
Ah - DWIM...
$ rm -rf / I think you meant `rm -rf / --no-preserve-root` Deleting / ..... $ ls operation not permitted.
Sounds like you invented a less harmful version of this OS:
See also (help.autoCorrect):
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Quite literally, in fact.
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@pjh said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@ben_lubar said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@pjh said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
@createdtodislikethis said in Microsoft Outlook and APFS:
such suggestions will include the correct case if needed, and the UI can even auto-correct me if it wishes to
Ah - DWIM...
$ rm -rf / I think you meant `rm -rf / --no-preserve-root` Deleting / ..... $ ls operation not permitted.
Sounds like you invented a less harmful version of this OS:
See also (help.autoCorrect):
Ha!
These comments are golden!