Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?
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@Erufael said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Hanzo And what about, lets say, stabbings? How do those compare? People are going to kill each other one way or another. Don't need guns to do it.
Which part of "murder rate" didn't you get? The US is a relatively violent place. Do all people try to kill each other? No. Then why is it so difficult to accept that in some places there are more killers than in others?
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@Hanzo Because it simply doesn't make sense to me. How does it make sense that all the killers in the entire world are clustered in just one part of it? Hell, most of the world's best killers weren't from the United States. Humans have been killing other humans everywhere since the dawn of humanity. It isn't localized to just one place.
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@Erufael Reality doesn't care with what you think makes sense.
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@Erufael Well, it's entirely possible that there's some weird factor in the US that makes people 5x or 10x more likely to become serial killers.
It's also entirely possible (and likely) that the statistic is misleading in several ways.
So it's probably both.
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@anonymous234 said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Well, it's entirely possible that there's some weird factor in the US that makes people 5x or 10x more likely to become serial killers.
Of course it's possible. Getting hit by a meteor is possible. The question is though, is it likely?
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@anonymous234 said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
some weird factor in the US
It's in the water!
But you didn't hear it from me!
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@Erufael said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Of course it's possible. Getting hit by a meteor is possible. The question is though, is it likely?
There is no way people will agree on "guesses" and what is "likely". Fact is most the known SK are on the USA, you can guess whatever you want around it.
China doesn't have SK because everyone is a kung fu master there, and you can't take those guys so easily.
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@Luhmann said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Then again I don't see why it's relevant since the discussion wasn't about if there are serial killers in the African jungle and all data has been reverencing the developed world.
All the data has been talking about how amazing and wonderful the developed world is?
Or do you mean "referencing"?
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@masonwheeler said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Or do you mean "referencing"?
I'm still trying to remove that accalia module from my mobile keyboard ...
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@wharrgarbl said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Erufael said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Of course it's possible. Getting hit by a meteor is possible. The question is though, is it likely?
There is no way people will agree on "guesses" and what is "likely". Fact is most the known SK are on the USA, you can guess whatever you want around it.
China doesn't have SK because everyone is a kung fu master there, and you can't take those guys so easily.
Wouldn't the SK be one of those guys?
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@Karla Isn't that the plot of every kung fu movie ever? Evil kung fu master is doing evil stuff; good kung fu master has to stop him.
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@masonwheeler said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Karla Isn't that the plot of every kung fu movie ever? Evil kung fu master is doing evil stuff; good kung fu master has to stop him.
Probably, my husband watches a lot of Hong Kong flicks, some of which I enjoy. I like the American knock offs too.
Though, I joke about the freakin flying Chinese.
INB4: The Everything is racist thread is
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@Karla Oh. The stuff my mom likes to call "Flying People, Hidden Wires"? :P
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@masonwheeler said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Karla Oh. The stuff my mom likes to call "Flying People, Hidden Wires"? :P
Yes. It was around the time of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" that I started using it.
But the movie that cemented it was, "Hero." It is shot so beautifully.
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@Karla said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
But the movie that cemented it was, "Hero." It is shot so beautifully.
Never heard of that one...
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@masonwheeler said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Karla said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
But the movie that cemented it was, "Hero." It is shot so beautifully.
Never heard of that one...
2002, Jet Li
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@Erufael said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Hanzo Because it simply doesn't make sense to me.
If the tendency is universal, why did the racial balance of serial killers in the US change? Or the gender balance?
Germany and Japan had a few serial killers running about in WW2. Didn't happen anymore. Why did it suddenly stop, if it's so universal and uncontrollable?
Perhaps the culture in the US brings out something in people. Perhaps it's the obsession with guns. Or with religion. Perhaps it's genetic. Or perhaps it's God's punishment. Who knows? But the numbers do tell us that there are really more serial killers in the US than in Europe or Canada (per capita).
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@Hanzo
No, what the statistics say is that the US identifies more people as serial killers than any other country.It doesn't say anything beyond that.
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@Dragoon Well, if you're going to be that bloody literal, sure, go ahead. You don't like some statistics? Say it's just a bad way of collecting them. But without any proof, that's just a cop-out. Nothing is ever completely sure, but that's not an argument to dismiss all information, unless you really want to put your head in the sand. Sure, I can believe that Burma has better things to do than to post serial killer statistics online, but Germany and France? Why wouldn't you trust their numbers?
Next time you quote a crime statistic or make one up out of thin air, think about it: you've openly declared that you don't believe you can draw any conclusion from them yourself.
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@Hanzo said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
You don't like some statistics? Say it's just a bad way of collecting them. But without any proof, that's just a cop-out.
No, you're over interpreting the numbers like he said. Now, based on the numbers, it's more likely that there are more serial killers in the US than elsewhere, but it's important to understand what the statistics actually are no matter what we're talking about.
Pretty much all of them will have some error factor. I suspect this one is under counting, possibly by a lot.
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@boomzilla said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Hanzo said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
You don't like some statistics? Say it's just a bad way of collecting them. But without any proof, that's just a cop-out.
No, you're over interpreting the numbers like he said.
My complaint was directed at his "It doesn't say anything beyond that." But if you don't have any good reason why the numbers are not what they seem to be, it's a cop-out. However, Radford University seems to have a list of serial killers, based on a single definition, and the US is by far the largest producer of serial killers, especially from 1970-2000. So it isn't even about "identifying as" (which sounds really odd in this context), nor about "universal human bla bla", it's about not wanting to hear it.
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@Hanzo said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
So it isn't even about "identifying as" (which sounds really odd in this context)
Um...but if they aren't identified as serial killers then they don't get counted. That's the whole basis of the statistic, so I'm not sure what you're saying.
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@Hanzo
It doesn't say anything beyond what it says. That doesn't stop you drawing conclusions nor inferences.
But you make statements like this:Germany and Japan had a few serial killers running about in WW2. Didn't happen anymore. Why did it suddenly stop, if it's so universal and uncontrollable?
and
But the numbers do tell us that there are really more serial killers in the US than in Europe or Canada (per capita).
Which are not supported by the data and not conclusions that can be drawn from it.
What the numbers do say, quite clearly is that the US has categorized more people as serial killers than any other country. It says nothing about the actual number of serial killers as that is an unknown quantity.
So the question isn't, "Why does the US have so many more serial killers?" it is "Why does the US categorize so many more people as serial killers?"
Because we don't know how many there actually are we can't say that we actually have more.
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@Dragoon said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
So the question isn't, "Why does the US have so many more serial killers?" it is "Why does the US categorize so many more people as serial killers?"
That is most certainly not the question. You could deny anything with that kind of logic: the question is not whether the Earth is flat or round, but why so many people categorize it as round.
But if you had taken a look at the Radford numbers, you'd have seen that there is a list which identifies killers according to the same rules, and the pattern is the same. You're just looking for an excuse.
Here are the numbers in a convenient pdf: http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial Killer Information Center/Serial Killer Statistics.pdf. The base url has more information.
Even if you don't believe the statistics from the other countries, a quick look at the time line dispels the idiotic thought that serial killing is universal.
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@Hanzo said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
But if you had taken a look at the Radford numbers, you'd have seen that there is a list which identifies killers according to the same rules, and the pattern is the same. You're just looking for an excuse.
No, you're still not understanding the point. I posted this link earlier:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-02-08/serial-killers-should-fear-this-algorithm
Which goes to show that we're probably missing a lot of serial killers.
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@boomzilla said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Which goes to show that we're probably missing a lot of serial killers.
And that was just looking in the US. Even with murders often (but not always) being run against the FBI database to look for matches and patterns to help identify interstate serial killers, some are apparently slipping through the cracks. How well do national police forces from different countries work together to compare notes? Are European police forces, for example, regularly checking against an Interpol database to check if there is a match for a murder they are currently working? How many serial killers who killed in multiple countries have been caught?
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@boomzilla said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Which goes to show that we're probably missing a lot of serial killers.
But you'd still have to assume all countries have the same probability of missing a serial killer, so the numbers may go up, but the ratio would stay the same.
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@Hanzo said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
But you'd still have to assume all countries have the same probability of missing a serial killer
Why would we have to assume that?
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@antiquarian said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Why would we have to assume that?
Missing data, variable ignored.
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@Hanzo said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@boomzilla said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Which goes to show that we're probably missing a lot of serial killers.
But you'd still have to assume all countries have the same probability of missing a serial killer, so the numbers may go up, but the ratio would stay the same.
I very much disagree on that. Now you're really assuming a lot.
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@Hanzo said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@boomzilla said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Which goes to show that we're probably missing a lot of serial killers.
But you'd still have to assume all countries have the same probability of missing a serial killer, so the numbers may go up, but the ratio would stay the same.
Come on, you're talking to some of the same guys here who are snidely dismissing anthropogenic climate change because they think they know better than actual climate scientists.
One of the great arguments was: The error bars are big.
The counter-argument that big error bars may also mean that the problem is actually bigger (because errors usually go both ways) then was promptly scoffed at.
The thing is that the US clearly has an institutional problem with violence - police officers shooting people in the back, a politician physically assaulting a reporter (and not even being investigated for that), the massive number of school shootings...
... but a big number of mass murderers? No, that cannot be. Not at all, the numbers must be lying, it's a matter of "too strict criteria for mass murderers!" or bullshit like that.
You guys have a president who admires another president who openly admitted to being a murderer. You have a president who openly joked about murdering someone and how he would be allowed to get away with it.
You don't get to tell us that you don't have a problem with murderers.
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@Rhywden said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Come on, you're talking to some of the same guys here who are snidely dismissing anthropogenic climate change because they think they know better than actual climate scientists.
You're not doing yourself any good with your credibility here.
@Rhywden said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
You don't get to tell us that you don't have a problem with murderers.
You don't get to tell us that you comprehended our posts. Anyways, I read this one book that pointed out that they weren't actually serial killers, they were economic libertarians.
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@boomzilla I notice that you didn't actually post any counter-arguments. Probably because you don't actually have any.
And as if you gave a rat's ass about anything like "credibility" - you as the guy who thinks he knows better than actual climate scientists. You blindly follow your warped world view because you cannot allow something to be true that your mindset doesn't allow to be true.
Making yourself look like a fool. Your credibility in that regard was down in the shitter right from the start. Which of course means that you'll also try to twist any other unfortunate statistic thus that you don't have to admit something is wrong if it isn't to your liking.
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If the numbers are correct, either America has a lot more serial killers than otherwise similar countries or their police are better at catching serial killers. Possibly a combination.
Considering America is so big and relatively few Americans travel abroad compared to Europeans, the points about Interpol are valid questions. Maybe a lot of European serial killers never get caught or only have one murder tied to them. It's probably easier for states within the USA to collaborate than countries within Europe. If a multi country killer is caught, what country are they even recorded against in these numbers?
The low rates in places like India point towards a less effective police force rather than fewer killers IMO
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@Rhywden said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
I notice that you didn't actually post any counter-arguments. Probably because you don't actually have any.
To made up nonsense? I think mockery was appropriate.
@Rhywden said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
And as if you gave a rat's ass about anything like "credibility" - you as the guy who thinks he knows better than actual climate scientists.
Ah, good, back to nonsense.
@Rhywden said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
Which of course means that you'll also try to twist any other unfortunate statistic thus that you don't have to admit something is wrong if it isn't to your liking.
Your innumeracy is not my credibility problem.
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@Jaloopa said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
It's probably easier for states within the USA to collaborate than countries within Europe
It is also a lot easier to move as a native through the entire USA. Try to do that in the EU... you will have to be fluent in several languages and cultures. It's not impossible but I don't see it as a possibility to close the majority of the gap in the statistics.
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@Jaloopa Remember bruv we had Harold Shipman ... possible over 600 kills.
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@lucas1 I have it on the good authority of my facebook feed that Trump is about to kill billions by withdrawing from the Paris thing.
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@boomzilla Trump is just trying to take the crown back for the USA.
Obviously he is a real patriot.
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@Rhywden that's what you get for trying to have a serious discussion here
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@lucas1 said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Jaloopa Remember bruv we had Harold Shipman ... possible over 600 kills.
Still just one killer though. Should have delegated it out, had a bit of a team to increase our numbers
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@Jaloopa If he delegated it out he could have saved the NHS.
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@wharrgarbl said in Serial Killers and Statistics: Which Will Kill you Frist?:
@Rhywden that's what you get for trying to have a serious discussion here
Yeah, fuckers like @Ryhwden show up and spew bullshit.