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@anotherusername It strikes me that the reason European driving instructors (UK ones at least) teach the use of the handbrake for hill starts is it's an easier technique to learn. It may also be related to the fact that some (older) cars can have some very oddly-placed pedals, making using one foot on both throttle and brake difficult, especially if you have small feet.
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@RaceProUK said in Clutch!:
It strikes me that the reason European driving instructors (UK ones at least) teach the use of the handbrake for hill starts is it's an easier technique to learn.
Well yeah... of course. It's easier to drive while using the brake and the gas at the same time; that's why some idiots do that in automatics, where their left foot is otherwise unoccupied and free to hover on the brake, and so that's where they put it. But it's a really bad way to drive, even though it's easier.
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@anotherusername That's... not what I was talking about.
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@RaceProUK the only practical advantage in using the handbrake to hold your vehicle stationary while on a hill start is that, unlike the regular brake, you don't have to release the handbrake before you can start giving the vehicle gas.
So the fact that it's easier to drive that way implies that you're probably not actually releasing the brake before giving the vehicle gas. If you're actually releasing the brake before giving the vehicle gas, you should have no significant difficulty in doing the exact same thing with the pedals. It may take a bit of practice to get quick enough, but there's no reason why someone can't.
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@anotherusername It isn't difficult to do. But if I am having to wait it is recommended that you use the handbrake at least in the UK, it makes pulling away easy and it is safer. I dunno why you would make things more difficult for yourself.
BTW leaving the handbrake partially on while driving after pulling away is a minor in the UK test.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
It may take a bit of practice to get quick enough, but there's no reason why someone can't.
You overestimate the abilities of the average British driver. Thanks to an almost complete lack of road patrols, and no compulsory retesting under 70, the skill of the average UK motorist quickly goes from
to 
.
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@RaceProUK Actually considering the number of cars we have on the road we have some of the safest roads in Europe at least.
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BTW leaving the handbrake partially on while driving after pulling away is a minor in the UK test.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you're giving it gas slightly ahead of releasing the brake, to prevent your car from rolling back when you do release it. You shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't need to do that.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
I'm saying that you're giving it gas slightly ahead of releasing the brake, to prevent your car from rolling back when you do release it. You shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't need to do that.
Well that is the way you are taught to do it in the UK. So either every motoring school in the country is wrong, the people that write the highway code or it is just you?
I can pull away fine just using the footbrake, but if I am waiting there for more than like 10 seconds it is just easier handbrake and find the bite before release.
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@Tsaukpaetra That pic is pretty bright. At night where I live it is pitch black.
The Highway Code - General rules, techniques and advice for all drivers and riders (103 to 158) - Guidance - GOV.UK
Signals, stopping procedures, lighting, control of the vehicle, speed limits, stopping distances, lines and lane markings and multi-lane carriageways, smoking, mobile phones and sat nav.
In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.
Again, your traffic is apparently stopped so long it's considered more appropriate to be parking. Which is ridiculous.
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@Tsaukpaetra You haven't drive in the UK have you? If it is Rush hours you aren't going anywhere between 7 - 10am and 4 - 7.30pm.
This is the town next to where I live every single evening.
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This is the town next to where I live every single evening.
Also pretty much the whole of south Manchester.
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@thegoryone I have the luxury of working at home these days, Thankfully.
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@Tsaukpaetra You haven't drive in the UK have you? If it is Rush hours you aren't going anywhere between 7 - 10am and 4 - 7.30pm.
This is the town next to where I live every single evening.
Which is appalling and irrelevant to hand braking in order to prevent rolling on a hill!
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@RaceProUK said in Clutch!:
This is the town next to where I live every single evening.
Also pretty much the whole of south Manchester.
Just because it's common, doesn't make it right.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Clutch!:
@RaceProUK said in Clutch!:
This is the town next to where I live every single evening.
Also pretty much the whole of south Manchester.
Just because it's common, doesn't make it right.
Absolutely. Unfortunately, the UK government typically has less clue about how to fix traffic issues than a fish does about the plot of West Side Story.
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@abarker if you have enough speed to open it, then engaging the handbrake would be almost certainly worst
Imagine this scenario: You're stopped at a traffic signal, waiting to turn onto the on ramp for a high speed motorway. Because you're driving a manual, and you drive like @lucas1, you've engaged the parking brake (it isn't really a handbrake if it's pedal operated). When you reach for the release lever, you accidentally pull the release lever for the hood first. So now, the primary latch for the hood has been released as you enter the high speed motorway.
There you go, a scenario where the hood could potentially be ripped open without driving at speed without the parking brake engaged at high speed.
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@dcon Or those "super-bright" LED headlights. You can usually tell which is which because the LEDs have a blue tinge, while "normal" high-beams are a little yellow. The absolute worst (not sure whether it quite reaches @mikeTheLiar level, though) are the LEDs on high.
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
Yeah, you really were closer than you should be.
To close for what? His pop-out flame throwers.
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
Yeah, you really were closer than you should be.
To close for what? His pop-out flame throwers.
To close for stopping at a light. Also, most people have swapped from flame throwers to rocket launchers so a bit more space wouldn't really have helped you.
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@boomzilla
I still can't grasp the too close thing. What is too close for stopping at a light?
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@boomzilla
I still can't grasp the too close thing. What is too close for stopping at a light?In the UK, if you can read the dashboard of the car in front, you're too close.
But it seems in the US, being in the same state is too close
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@boomzilla
I still can't grasp the too close thing. What is too close for stopping at a light?3 feet (AKA ~1 meter). The rule of thumb is that you should be able to see the tires of the car in front of you. Maybe if you were in a
golf cartSMRT car or something you still could, but the larger gap leaves room for errors like him backing up, you going forward or being rear ended by another car.
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
The rule of thumb is that you should be able to see the tires of the car in front of you.
That's the rule of thumb here too. However, if you stick to it, someone will push in front of you.
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@RaceProUK My instructor said "tyres and tarmac" when pull up behind someone. If you can see both you are too close.
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If you are in the dark you can blind the driver behind with your brake lights.
Seems like you have way more problems than not rolling back if the brake lights are blinding people at night.
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@RaceProUK said in Clutch!:
That's the rule of thumb here too. However, if you stick to it, someone will push in front of you.
Look, if they really want to trigger someone's forward swivel gun, that's on them.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Clutch!:
Again, your traffic is apparently stopped so long it's considered more appropriate to be parking. Which is ridiculous.
The rental I used would cut the engine at a stop.
Seems like starting the car so often would wear out the car more, but I don't know enough about cars to know.
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@xaade I should have said "dazzle" not blind.
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@boomzilla
I still can't grasp the too close thing. What is too close for stopping at a light?My rule of thumb is, if you can't see their rear tires, you're probably too close.
Edit:
twice...
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@xaade I think the difference is stop-start keeps the oil and coolant pumps running, whereas turning off the ignition doesn't.
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
The rule of thumb is that you should be able to see the tires of the car in front of you.
Sounds very arbitrary. What if its a motorbike? You can still see the tyre even while nudged from the bumper.... assuming you are not driving some massive pick-up/truck.
The daft thing is that since most yank cars are automatics, if indeed a 'lil old lady in-front decided to accelerate in reverse then 1mm or 3m won't make much difference.
Sounds to me that it's more a rule for something that doesn't happen. Kinda like thought crime, police be like "Sir, What if you didn't stop in time? Just in case I will put you in jail for not stopping with enough distance as one day you might decide not to stop in time".
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Sounds to me that it's more a rule for something that doesn't happen
It generally doesn't if you obey the rule.
Sounds very arbitrary. What if its a motorbike? You can still see the tyre even while nudged from the bumper.... assuming you are not driving some massive pick-up/truck.
Rules of thumb are immune to your pendantic dickweedery. Also, if the guy on the motorcycle notices you getting fresh like that he's likely to deploy his armor piercing shells aimed into your engine block to prevent further encroachment.
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@Helix The rule's bollocks anyway, given the wide variety of rear overhangs from non-existent
to fucking miles
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Seems like we would have solved the complexity of driving by automating some of these things.
If I were to make a kind of vehicle to automate driving to a small degree, I'm not entirely sure what I'd call it....
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I was told that if you need to go around the vehicle for any reason you can still go around them without reversing.
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@xaade In the UK if you want a full license to drive any vehicle you must take your test in a Manual. Most people don't have an automatic, so finding a second hand automatic is difficult, so most people do their test in a manual car.
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@lucas1 that's one thing I'm actually okay with: people should be required to exhibit a reasonable level of proficiency in a manual vehicle before they're legally licensed to drive one. If they tested in an automatic, they should only be licensed to drive automatic.
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@anotherusername As long as you don't need a license to drive on your own property.
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@anotherusername As long as you don't need a license to drive on your own property.
As long as "your own property" doesn't include the public roads, "because my taxes help pay a tiny fraction of the cost to build and maintain them and that makes me a part owner!!1"
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@thegoryone said in Clutch!:
Leave work at 5:15, get home at 6:30. 15 mile commute. Down a motorway.
I consider that a good day. (17mi. 15mi on a 65mph highway.)
edit: this morning was over an hour. But accidents (that close 3 of 4 lanes) are ... special.
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Or those "super-bright" LED headlights.
With some of those, I can't tell if they're just bright lights, or on high beam. Either way, KILLKILLKILL.
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? When's the last time you've driven a manual?Never. (The only appropriate answer to this question in this day and age!)
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In 'merica I get some guy telling me i stopped too close to his car, even though I was about 1m (3 and a bit feet) from him... and it was flat.
A good rule of thumb is, if you can't see the road behind his rear tires, you're stopped too close.
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In 'merica I get some guy telling me i stopped too close to his car, even though I was about 1m (3 and a bit feet) from him... and it was flat.
Unless you really want a rear end collision to make you the middle of the sandwich, don't stop so close to the car in front of you.
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@RaceProUK said in Clutch!:
@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Clutch!:
If it were true, you would not be able to have the engine idling either.
An idling engine still uses fuel. However, when going downhill (with the clutch engaged), the car's momentum can be enough to keep the engine running without any fuel at all ;)
Depends on whether the car make actually made it so that the fuel flow is shut off in such a situation or not.
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@RaceProUK said in Clutch!:
@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Clutch!:
If it were true, you would not be able to have the engine idling either.
An idling engine still uses fuel. However, when going downhill (with the clutch engaged), the car's momentum can be enough to keep the engine running without any fuel at all ;)
Depends on whether the car make actually made it so that the fuel flow is shut off in such a situation or not.
Don't most fuel injection types do that by now?
I know my bottom-of-the-line Toyota does it, based on the OBDII readings...
