Utility company WTF
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As most of you who are following ο stuff know, I recently moved to a different state in order to take a new job.
I just got my first gas bill in my email. I logged in to their site and went to set up automatic payments, which requires entering my banking information. It rejected it, saying
Route Number has an invalid format. Please re-enter...
So I double-checked the route number, and it was correct. Just in case, I double-checked the account number. Also correct. Just-extra-in-case, I retyped both numbers, checked them before hitting Submit, and... same error. Somehow this thing is rejecting a perfectly valid bank routing number that I've been able to sign up for automatic payments with on plenty of other things in the past.
Bonus : I went to contact them about it. They have a phone number for customer service, but it's not open on weekends. Nor do they have an email address to send issues to.
Extra bonus : They have a HTML form for submitting issues to in lieu of an email address. But it won't accept more than 200 characters in the body. Treating your customers like Twits is hardly what I'd call good customer service...
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@masonwheeler The bonus and extra bonus s sound like business-as-usual for companies to me...
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Route Number has an invalid format. Please re-enter...
Starting with the dumb, easy stuff first:
Does the form accept the routing number without any hyphens? #########
Or does it require the hyphens? ####-####-#
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@djls45 It shows a sample image of a personal check with the routing number
123456789
as an example of what you should enter. So I entered it without hyphens. If it requires any other formatting, I have no way of knowing about it from the information provided.
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@masonwheeler You could try talking with some locals that already had to deal with this company. Maybe it would even be a decent conversation starter to meet your new neighbors.
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@wharrgarbl said in Utility company WTF:
Maybe it would even be a decent conversation starter to meet your new neighbors.
We don't do that in America.
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@heterodox So neighbors are only useful to have something to complain about?
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@JBert said in Utility company WTF:
@heterodox So neighbors are only useful to have something to complain about?
Absolutely.
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Got an email back from customer service. Apparently the problem is that my routing number is for an out-of-state bank, and this is relevant for some bizarre reason.
In order to get it entered into their system, they want me to send them a voided check with the routing number on it.
When I wrote back, pointing out that I haven't received a voided check back from my bank in well over a decade, they asked me to have my bank send them official confirmation on the bank's official letterhead.
How does any of this make any sense whatsoever? I've never had any problems with entering banking information for direct payments before. Most of the time, the web form will do a quick AJAX lookup and respond by posting the name of my bank to confirm to me that I entered the routing number correctly. So clearly such a system exists; why in the world can't their server access it?!?
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@masonwheeler Did you move to middle America? Things move slowly there. AJAX is for coastal liberal elites.
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@Captain Does Provo, Utah, one of the biggest, fastest growing tech hubs in the country outside of the West Coast, count as slow-moving middle America? :P
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@Captain Just got another email from them. Apparently they're plenty slow-moving; they just explained that they enter all bank identification manually into their system. (Not explained or even mentioned: why they do this when automated systems exist. Simply googling "bank routing number identification" turns up several!)
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I replied:
My bank is named "MyBank Bank," and the routing number is 123456789. This can be verified using the American Bankers' Association's official routing number lookup tool at http://routingnumber.aba.com, which is just as authoritative as a letter on the bank's letterhead and would be significantly faster and more convenient for everyone involved.
Thanks,
Mason
Now to see if they can be reasonable about it.
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
When I wrote back, pointing out that I haven't received a voided check back from my bank in well over a decade, they asked me to have my bank send them official confirmation on the bank's official letterhead.
The bank doesn't send you a voided check. You write "VOID" across one of your checks and give that to them.
The "out of state" bank thing is pretty weird. I've never encountered anything like that, but then my wife usually deals with that sort of thing.
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
I replied:
My bank is named "MyBank Bank," and the routing number is 123456789. This can be verified using the American Bankers' Association's official routing number lookup tool at http://routingnumber.aba.com, which is just as authoritative as a letter on the bank's letterhead and would be significantly faster and more convenient for everyone involved.
Thanks,
Mason
Now to see if they can be reasonable about it.
So close. Should've been American Beneficent Banker's Association. Might be a lie, but who cares about that when puns are involved?
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@masonwheeler $10 you get a reply asking you for not just the letter, but also a scan of both your driver's license and social security card
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@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
The bank doesn't send you a voided check. You write "VOID" across one of your checks and give that to them.
This.
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@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
The bank doesn't send you a voided check. You write "VOID" across one of your checks and give that to them.
Huh?
So what's the thing called that they used to do, back in the day, where they send the checks you wrote back to you, but they were voided after having been processed? Because that's totally what came to mind when the letter said "voided check." I've never heard of "writing VOID across one of your checks" before.
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
So what's the thing called that they used to do, back in the day, where they send the checks you wrote back to you, but they were voided after having been processed?
That process is called cancellation.
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@lolwhat d'oh!
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@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
The "out of state" bank thing is pretty weird. I've never encountered anything like that, but then my wife usually deals with that sort of thing.
Back when checks were more of a thing, retailers used to require valid ID for out of state checks. I recall doing something a while back that required a routing number for a large purchase (something like a $6,000+ order) and they required some verification, regardless of where the bank or I was. However, seeing that this is a friggen gas bill which is typically in the lower hundreds per month on the coldest time of the year in the northern parts, that seems hilariously overkill for a utility company to require.
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@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
The bank doesn't send you a voided check. You write "VOID" across one of your checks and give that to them.
By default all bank checks are "int" if their type isn't declared.
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@The_Quiet_One said in Utility company WTF:
Back when checks were more of a thing, retailers used to require valid ID for out of state checks.
Oh, yeah. Many required ID regardless of the state. I have a ~20 year old Bank of America account which I initially opened in California. When I first moved to Virginia (about 16 years ago) I couldn't deposit checks in an ATM because they couldn't handle the out of state difference for some reason.
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@wharrgarbl said in Utility company WTF:
@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
The bank doesn't send you a voided check. You write "VOID" across one of your checks and give that to them.
By default all bank checks are "int" if their type isn't declared.
Decimal, I think you mean.
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@Dreikin the banking system is notoriously late to the party. It's (more than) possible they're reimplementing fixed point with ints.
At least if this is anything to go by.
Also, does SQL have a VOID type? I know PHP does... and it has an int type...
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@Arantor Nah, they're probably still COBOL, so we're talking
NUMERIC
with extra qualifiers.
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@Arantor said in Utility company WTF:
@Dreikin the banking system is notoriously late to the party. It's (more than) possible they're reimplementing fixed point with ints.
At least if this is anything to go by.
Sure, but the checks precede those so I think they are still decimal and are cast to fixed point int on conversion.
Also, does SQL have a VOID type? I know PHP does... and it has an int type...
NULL?
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Mason: I have been able to verify the information with MyBank direct and need your checking or savings account number for set up, please reply with the number.
Thank you,
UtilityCo Gas
Consumer Affairs
...seriously?
Is that truly necessary? Unlike the routing number, the account number is sensitive PII, and I'd prefer not to send it in an insecure email, what with all the news of data breaches and networks being hacked recently. I was hoping to simply enter that into your Web form, which is secured by HTTPS.
Thanks,
Mason
I'm hoping is apt enough that the mention of PII will equate to "potential liability" in her mind. From the emails, she does seem to be reasonably on-the-ball; just that she's trapped in a rather stupid system.
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The "out of state" bank thing is pretty weird. I've never encountered anything like that, but then my wife usually deals with that sort of thing.
@boomzilla It's a long story, but every state has its own subtly incompatible banking regulations and practices. For example, each state has its own transfer clearinghouse with its own risk management practices (to stop, e.g., check kiting). Each node between the accounts can potentially add 2-5 days wait to a funds transfer.
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@Dreikin said in Utility company WTF:
So close. Should've been American Beneficent Banker's Association. Might be a lie, but who cares about that when puns are involved?
That page isn't as useful though, it just says that it must be funny in a rich man's world.
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Mason: You can submit all your information for auto pay through the mail and I will be happy to set up when received.
Thank you,
UtilityCo Gas
Consumer Affairs
OK, the just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Literally the entire purpose of having a Web form to sign up for autopay is to not have to deal with any of this, and UtilityCo is failing at every level!
Seriously, can anyone give me any good reason why it's acceptable, in the year 2017, for any non-tiny company to do business online and not simply accept payment via PayPal? (And no, "PayPal suxx0rz because I heard some horror story on some website somewhere!!!!1" is not a good reason.)
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Now to see if they can be reasonable about it.
YMBNTR. Utilities? Reasonable?
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Seriously, can anyone give me any good reason why it's acceptable, in the year 2017, for any non-tiny company to do business online and not simply accept payment via PayPal?
Because PayPal isn't a bank
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@RaceProUK And this is relevant how?
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Seriously, can anyone give me any good reason why it's acceptable, in the year 2017, for any non-tiny company to do business online and not simply accept payment via PayPal? (And no, "PayPal suxx0rz because I heard some horror story on some website somewhere!!!!1" is not a good reason.)
Do a lot of companies actually accept paypal? My initial reaction would be: why bother?
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@masonwheeler Because utility companies only accept payments from banks, or cards issued by banks, or⦠Well, basically, there must be a bank involved.
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@boomzilla Yeah, it's all but ubiquitous in e-commerce, with the notable exception of a few entities that are even bigger than PayPal, such as Amazon.
...and a few total derps, such as UtilityCo.
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@masonwheeler I just looked at my electric company. They don't take paypal:
And credit cards require an extra fee, which no doubt paypal would, too. Paypal has always struck me as a PITA, but I guess whatever floats your boat.
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Mason
I just read a post in Slashdot saying professors are complaining people started calling them on first name. Is it unpolite or not to call americans by their first names?
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@wharrgarbl It's impolite to call someone by their first name in a formal setting where they're introduced by title.
That's why you'll often see sequences like the following in American movies:
Hello, Dr. Smith. It's a pleasure to meet you. *extends hand*
*shakes hand* Please, call me Bob.Dr. Smith is essentially saying "let's not treat this as a formal meeting."
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@wharrgarbl said in Utility company WTF:
@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Mason
I just read a post in Slashdot saying professors are complaining people started calling them on first name. Is it unpolite or not to call americans by their first names?
Typically considered appropriate unless you're in the inferior position of an unbalanced power relationship or in customer service, with lots of caveats on that simplification.
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@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
@masonwheeler said in Utility company WTF:
Mason: You can submit all your information for auto pay through the mail and I will be happy to set up when received.
Thank you,
UtilityCo Gas
Consumer Affairs
OK, the just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Literally the entire purpose of having a Web form to sign up for autopay is to not have to deal with any of this, and UtilityCo is failing at every level!
Seriously, can anyone give me any good reason why it's acceptable, in the year 2017, for any non-tiny company to do business online and not simply accept payment via PayPal? (And no, "PayPal suxx0rz because I heard some horror story on some website somewhere!!!!1" is not a good reason.)
Around here we have a lot of these "automated payment" systems, where it lets you login to your banks online system to complete a transaction with a pre-filled receiver, title and amount (via API integration), you login through your bank's secured login page, you make the transfer and it goes to the company's account in the same bank, so the can confirm your transfer within minutes.
There's also this things called BLIK that all of the above transfer companies accept, where you input an auto-generated number from your bank's mobile app, then a popup shows in the same app if you want to accept the transfer, you click yes and your done with it.
Is USA really so far behind freaking Poland?!
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@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
Is USA really so far behind freaking Poland?!
Yes. Yes we are.
Especially alphabetically.
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@e4tmyl33t said in Utility company WTF:
@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
Is USA really so far behind freaking Poland?!
Yes. Yes we are.
Especially alphabetically.
Makes sense.
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@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
Is USA really so far behind freaking Poland?!
Think of our banking system as a massive collection of legacy systems. Because that's what it is.
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@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
Is USA really so far behind freaking Poland?!
Think of our banking system as a massive collection of legacy systems. Because that's what it is.
Never thought I'd say that, but thank god for the USSR and communism?
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@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
Never thought I'd say that, but thank god for the USSR and communism?
There are several layers of irony there, but I'm happy to let you have that and I'll keep my slowly modernizing legacy banking system.
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@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
Never thought I'd say that, but thank god for the USSR and communism?
There are several layers of irony there, but I'm happy to let you have that and I'll keep my slowly modernizing legacy banking system.
Sure thing, grampa. (just adding a few more layers of irony right there)
I'll slowly move off your lawn, now...
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@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
I'll slowly move off your lawn, now...
Dance, Rabbit! – 00:18
— Alberto Suarez
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@boomzilla said in Utility company WTF:
@kt_ said in Utility company WTF:
I'll slowly move off your lawn, now...
Dance, Rabbit! – 00:18
— Alberto SuarezHey, be careful! The s are dropping off from your !