Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN
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@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@dkf heartbleed looks really obviousโ and stupid by it's description, yet nobody noticed it in the code
That's because nobody was looking at it. OpenSSL could be a case study in how not to run an OSS project.
You know why everyone points at Heartbleed in discussions like this, as "proof" that the system doesn't work? Because that's pretty much all they have. And that, more than anything else, is good solid evidence that it does work!
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@masonwheeler said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
You know why everyone points at Heartbleed in discussions like this, as "proof" that the system doesn't work? Because that's pretty much all they have.
I don't believe this. This is just what was more advertised because it affected all webservers, in a port that is opened in all their firewalls and was very very serious.
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@cartman82 said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@RaceProUK said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Stable slow-moving enterprises aren't using .NET Core or Standard anyway: they're using Framework.
And at this pace, they never will.
That's certainly the case here. First I was waiting for the tooling to settle down; and then once that finally happened in March it made sense to just wait for 2.0.
Well, so much for that.
I'll probably still move my supporting libraries to NetStandard, but the front end's going to stay MVC 5 for the foreseeable future.
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@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
I don't believe this.
And what evidences do you have to support your belief ?
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@RaceProUK said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@Zecc Given how many people looking for vulnerabilities target closed-source software, I don't think the number of scuba divers is all that different.
Oh come on, those are completely different things and you know it! The bad guys will always be looking for problems; what "opening up the pool" does is to invite the good guys in and level the playing field.
Essentially, it balances out Kerckhoff's Principle.
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@TimeBandit said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
And what evidences do you have to support your belief ?
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@wharrgarbl "AppGoat" LOL
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@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Did you read any of it ?
3 high vulnerabilities: 2 for the same firmware version of an iodata router, and 1 for AppGoat, which is described like this:
Vulnerability experience learning tool "AppGoat" is a tool to systematically learn fundamental knowledge about vulnerability such as summary of vulnerability and countermeasure method in practical form. Users can interactively conduct the exercises prepared for each learning theme by discovering embedded vulnerabilities, grasping problems in programming, and learning countermeasure methods.
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@TimeBandit Did you read the medium ones? That's just this week report.
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Maybe you will like past week better, we had much more stuff on high severity, including kernel vulnerabilities
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@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Maybe you will like past week better, we had much more stuff on high severity, including kernel vulnerabilities
Yes, definitely better:
- Apple quicktime : That's totally Open Source and running on Linux
- cygwin: That's open source, but limited to Windows
- d-link firmwares: totally open source
- lenovo system update: must be open source
- Linux kernel: 10 vulnerabilities that allows local users to cause a denial of service, and one that allows local users to have an unspecified impact via unknown vectors.
And now I'm bored reading all this crap, so I'll stop here
I must apologies: you have "real evidences"
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@TimeBandit said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Linux kernel: 10 vulnerabilities that allows local users to cause a denial of service, and one that allows local users to have an unspecified impact via unknown vectors.
Several of those appeared to be the same thing, just pointing out different files. Not sure what that means. Maybe the same bug in multiple places. Which is the sort of thing that couldn't be caught without access to the source code.
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@TimeBandit said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Apple quicktime
Last I heard, it was no longer supported and we're all supposed to uninstall it because of security issues.
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@masonwheeler SockMafia's been open-source since the beginning. Do you know how many people have offered comments or bugs to the sockdev team from the forums? I can count them on one hand.
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@Yamikuronue I think I'm right in saying Sockbot itself hasn't fared much better in that regard.
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@Yamikuronue That just means you have a product nobody's using.
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@boomzilla said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@boomzilla being nuanced is awfully like doing work.
And yelling is so cathartic.
Yes. ANDROID WHAARGRABL!
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@CrazyEyes said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@lucas1 I agree with you. I'm just saying that if they are hell-bent on taking this "let's release everything as soon as possible so people can give feedback on our unfinished crap" model, also known as the "free QA department" model, they would probably do a lot better for themselves if they used a different branding for those releases. That way, you would develop a userbase for your "labs" branding which would only include people who were actually interested in fiddling around with your works in progress and nobody would be surprised or angry when it doesn't work.
Could this be called pre-RC? Like, you know, in this case?
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@kt_ said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
pre-RC
Is that what we used to call a beta?
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@Jaloopa said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Is that what we used to call a beta?
For Microsoft products, betas doesn't have a different name, it's anything they released in less than a year.
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@CrazyEyes The whole RC to live thing was a real balls up.
Not even Angular 2 team did anything as retarded.
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@Jaloopa said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@kt_ said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
pre-RC
Is that what we used to call a beta?
I'm not sure if this is beta. They call it preview1. :(
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@Jaloopa said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@kt_ said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
pre-RC
Is that what we used to call a beta?
In Microspeak, it's called a 'preview'
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@wharrgarbl Anything until the 3rd version is shit.
Case in point
- OG .NET, 1.0 was shit, 1.1 was better but still shit, 2.0 was decent
- Windows was shit until version 3
- Windows NT was shit until version 3 (which was really 2000 I think).
- Windows 32bit was shit until version 3 .. Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98 SE.
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@lucas1 said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Windows 98 SE
Was that really enough of an update to justify being the third version? Of course, if you have to count ME then the argument breaks down, but even counting it as Win32 V4, we still have "shit until v3 then shit again", which also doesn't really follow the pattern
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@Jaloopa Windows 98SE was quite a bit different. It had full plug and play and USB support.
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@lucas1 said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Windows was shit until version 3
Windows got monotonically better with every version until at least Win 98. 3.0 was better than 2 (I never used v1, but from what I've read of it, I'm happy at that) but it was still sufficiently buggy and slow that you didn't really want to use it much. 3.1 was quite a lot better (I only used to crash that a few times a day!) but you still wanted to keep DOS around as a reliable fallback option.
XP was good, especially from SP1. SP2 was often cited as being better, but the key differences there were in how the firewall was configured by default.
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@lucas1 said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Windows 98SE was quite a bit different. It had full plug and play and USB support.
Fair enough. Before my interest in computers really started so I'm not too aware of what it entailed.
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@Jaloopa Also Windows ME wasn't that bad tbh. I had a triple boot setup (which required magic back then) with Windows XP and I think Redhat 7.3
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@lucas1 said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Windows ME wasn't that bad
Yeah, like dying burned alive isn't that bad.
You could have broken both legs just before burning alive
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@lucas1 Windows odd versions are good, the even suck.
That's why they had to skip windows 9, they couldn't make a good version.
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@TimeBandit I never had problems with it. I didn't have problems with Vista either.
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@lucas1 And for those that did have problems, once the driver makers got their shit together and release stuff that actually worked, they stopped having problems too.
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@RaceProUK The problem was the driver model changed drastically. There were Drivers problems with Windows XP vs 98 / ME but people forgot because there was such a long time period between versions. It was over 5 years.
EDIT: BTW Win 2000 / NT4 drivers were rather shit.
S3 Savage video card I had in my P3 didn't at the time didn't have OpenGL drivers. So while the card had enough power to play games in 2002 anything that was Quake 3 based which was pretty much every first person shooter didn't work properly. If I loaded installed drivers with ME everything worked okay.
After that I always bought the best hardware I could afford if it was non-generic.
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@blakeyrat said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
What's preventing them from finishing it, then releasing it? Did God carve some more stone tablets that I'm not aware of?
I mean, they released Windows, didn't they?
The startling track record of releasing broken crap that only half works or breaks things is... startling.
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@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
so reasonable opinions weren't blown out of the topic by bullshit.
YMBNH....
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@Zecc said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@Arantor said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@RaceProUK fits definition 1 just fine.
TIL money is a meme.
Depends on whether you mean the concept, behaviours, etc around it, or the physical tokens used for accounting. The former definitely is, and a very strong one at that.
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@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@boomzilla Nobody managed to point a better name, and those things he listed are typical of opensource.
I agree it isn't an ideal name, but it's the better name we have for it.
"Immature Development Methodologies"? Or perhaps more accurately "Development Methodologies of Immature Software Developers"?
I'm thinking of this talk where the different maturity levels of programmers are used to explain differences in software development (among other things).
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@Dreikin I think that as idiot software development, because immaturity is a temporary condition while idiots remain idiots.
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@wharrgarbl said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
@Dreikin I think that as idiot software development, because immaturity is a temporary condition while idiots remain idiots.
That's a bit harsh. For a lot of devs it may well be temporary. There's a reason the "T" is in CADT.
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@Zecc said in Microsoft fucks their developers in the ass... AGAIN:
Fortunately they'll get over it after 5 minutes.
No, still mildly annoyed about that.
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