...you go to bed and then spend the next hour or so thinking things through about this alternative AJAX-driven forum software you would like to code just to show THEM it can be done without becoming a steaming pile of bugs.
Best posts made by faoileag
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RE: ⏱ You know you've been spending too much time on TDWTF when...
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RE: CodeBabes.com
Hugo is a silly name.
It is rather common in BELGIUM
Looks like @Luhmann is giving substance to @aliceif's claim.
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RE: Closed Poll: Do you have Discourse Syndrome
I had a Nexus 10 to test with at one point but the performance was abysmal, and virtually no Android apps supported the large screen so I gave it away.
- You don't bother with Apps, you had the Nexus 10 to test Discourse with.
- If the performance is abysmal, you don't give away the device but try to make your software perform better.
- You are (part) owner of the company that develops Discourse, and IIRC you got VC capital to develop it. In any normal shop that includes getting different hardware to test the product on.
Sheesh, I worked for a company in the business of providing video chats in 1998, and not only had they a range of machines / OSes to test the front-end on, they had several testers as well, doing nothing but.
This is 2014 and the range of devices your product can be used on has multiplied. Not doing thorough tests on as many platforms as possible is,,frankly, weird.
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RE: Anagram Est Omen
##Agile Oaf - The Neanderthal Way To Success
###1. Introduction
Agile Oaf is a completely new way to manage your team and make your project a fail of hitherto unheard of proportions.
The core element of Agile Oaf is the daily huddle, or meeting, around the floor's water dispenser. In the huddle you discuss all things that are important to your team:
- Latest sports results
- New apps the team members have installed on their smartphones
- Latest movies
- Local / world news
Once the huddle breaks up and the team members are back at their desk, other elements of Agile Oaf come into play:
- The daily visit to TDWTF
- Perusing Slashdot for interesting news
- Watching videos mentioned in the daily huddle
This will take until lunch. An Agile Oaf team will usually take lunch together, to discuss progress. Like sharing opinions about the videos watched.
To be continued...
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RE: Discourse DMZ
> Seems like a better approach would have been to edit it down, leaving a description and acknowledging the bug.
I'd hardly call that bug report civilized. It had bowser in it and was designed to overload the memory of any client that opened it.
It doesn't matter if the bug report is civilized or not, you don't delete it.Edit out the not civilized bits: fine. But you don't delete it.
Punish the poster by suspending the account: fine, as long as an explanation is sent to the user as to why the account has been suspended. But you don't delete the topic.
You have chosen to use Discourse as your bug tracking system. If you delete reports of serious bugs, how will you ever track them???
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RE: Closed Poll: How do you feel about Discourse on TDWTF?
It definitely has been a fun project for me. The last few weeks have been some of my funnest times working on Discourse, having a community that uses the shit out of your software like TDWTF teaches you a lot.
Yeah, I would think it does - I mean, this site is dedicated to bad examples of code or software, so test-running some software with this community is like building a toy and then giving it to a toddler. If the toddler can't break it, it's probably ready for the shelves :-)But you have been very calm and sensible in your approach - you listen, you look at the problems and you try to fix them as they come up. You didn't let yourself get drawn into fundamental policy discussions. So, keep up the good work :-)
Actually, the way you and codinghorror reacted in the first few weeks reminds me of the "good cop, bad cop" strategy (or the strategy in "Smokey and the Bandit"). Codinghorror draws the flak and you can concentrate on your work.
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RE: The "fa-spin" Testing Thread
I really don't understand why they don't trust their own code either
Because they know their code? -
RE: Re: Small edit impossible due to "body too similar"
Actually, having thought about it, the policy "whitespace only edits are blocked" is pretty stupid.
So I can't do a "th egood" -> "the good" change.
But I can do a "th egood" -> "the goodFOO" change and then a "the goodFOO" -> "the good" change.
In other words: I can achieve my original aim of a whitespace only edit by making two edits involving adding and deleting non-whitespace.
This is "nested quotes" again. The default behaviour of Discourse does not support something I want to do, but with some manual action let's me achieve my original aim nevertheless - it's just harder to do.
And in this case it goes against the stated intention of Discourse to improve the standard of discourse on the web. Fixing a typo will certainly raise the standard; but if it is that much trouble I will probably not bother in the future.
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RE: Moar downtime? who was playing with bots again?
Given that I've run shitty-as-all-get-out Wordpress on a linux box with 2GB, I think we can place the blame squarely on Ruby.
I wouldn't blame Ruby. I would blame whoever wrote the problematic code.Seriously, any language with a garbage collector is only as good as the people writing code for it in terms of memory consumption.
To be able to garbage collect objects, they have to be abandoned. This might sound as a trifle, but if you don't understand the concept of garbage collection, or the paradigm of the gc language you use, it's not exactly difficult to create situations in which objects live far longer than necessary.
And you might say: "Ok, so the object gets deleted a bit later, what's the deal?" The deal is that if objects whose memory footprint is 1GB get deleted long after it would be possible with better programming, do need those 1GB of RAM nevertheless.
This is 2014. Memory is cheap, so people have a tendency to approach memory issues with "simply buy more RAM" instead of coding defensively in that respect.
But if your server is a cloud server getting more RAM for you means buying a bigger plan, and by doing so forking out more money per month, I'd call that attitude extremely customer-unfriendly.
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RE: Discourse DMZ
The fuck?
No, seriously. What the fucking fuck do this bunch of cowboys think they are doing, and how the fuck do they manage to get paying customers to accept this shit?
Yeah, that's why I couldn't come up with a good reply or even a witty riposte.So every developer uses his own project management tool. picks whatever he finds interesting from the "bug" category and that's it? And if you want to know who's working on what bug you have to ping all developers like "Are you working on ..."? I mean, the developers don't even post statuses, like "working on this right now"
This might work if all the developers were sharing the same room, but in this case they don't even all share the same continent, let alone timezone.
Definitely the worst development process I have seen so far, at least for a project the size of Discourse.
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The Official Status Thread
Continuing the discussion from The Official "Likes" Thread:
That's it! We need a Status thread that we could treat like Facebook!
Done. @faoileag's status right now: at keyboard. Obviously. -
RE: The nerdy jokes thread (bonus original title mode!)
Question: How does a mathematician catch a lion?
Answer: He climbs into a cage, closes the door and defines himself as being outside. -
RE: The Official Status Thread
i have accidentally eaten one while thinking it was a peanut butter cookie. they're not bad but was also definitely not what i was looking for!
Ah, dogfooding! I've heard they do it over on meta.d as well. -
RE: Bing Vision ❤ Michael Zimmerman
I like the "fresh hydrogen" in the top picture. It is a sign of quality to use "fresh" hydrogen and not the freeze-dried variety where you later have to add water to get hydrogen again.
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RE: Discourse is not TRWTF…
They should have implemented a zero bugs policy months ago if they were really serious about V1, but of course that isn't going to happen.
They can't. For a zero bugs policy, you need to have a bug tracking system in place. One that lets you rate the severity of the bugs on a scale from "showstopper" to "minor".Then you can sort by severity and fix the severe ones and drop the minor ones (or keep them for v2, v3...).
Instead they are using Discourse as their bug tracker. And no, this is not dog-fooding, this is doing it wrong. Post-its on a whiteboard would be a better bug tracking system, because those you can group by severity.
Pretty amateurish.
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Licence? What licence? All your links are belong to us!
Today I have stumbled across a rather serious issue regarding image licenses in a forum software we all know only too well.
In this post I added an image, and I did it by url. To stress I did not upload that image .
Looking at the raw code of the post, you can see that that image is now delivered from http://what.thedailywtf.com/ and not from the original source:
<img src='/uploads/default/3534/5700069f0bcf7d79.jpg'>
Furthermore, it is delivered from a directory named uploads giving the impression that I uploaded that picture.
And it has been altered: it is now 500x500, whereas the original was 600x600.
No reference whatsoever as to the original source of the image is given; it is presented as is.
I don't know intellectual property law in the USA well enough; as for Germany that behaviour is infringing intellectual property law in more than one way.
For legal reasons, I will therefore in future refrain from adding links to images on the web.
IANAL, but IMHO this behaviour of Discourse is completely unacceptable. And if only because the behaviour of Discourse in regards to image links presents a serious risk to any website running Discourse as forum software.
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RE: HTML tag abuse thread
What does bother me is when people object to me doing my fucking job. So yes, if you have some sort of congenital objection to me reserving the right to move reported bugs to the correct category here, then you should probably leave.
What you don't seem to get is: it is not your job to alter public discussion in a forum by moving posts out of one thread into another at your discretion.It has been your decision not to use a decent bug tracking system but instead using Discourse for it. IMHO it is not the best decision you could have made but I respect it; you will have had your reasons for it.
But that decision can not be an excuse to move posts at whim from one thread to another. Instead you could:
- Clone the relevant posts (it is your software, develop the functionality if it doesn't exist)
- Manually copy the information into new posts
- Add backlinks from the bug topic to relevant posts in the original thread.
But moving posts is such a deep intrusion into the discussion that people are rightly incensed.
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RE: The Like icon, wut?
Been there for as long as I can remember it.
Am I the only one noticing that it says "minutes" on the left and "seconds" below the box?
Discourse: proudly confusing people since 2013!
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RE: WTF Feature Request: Tags to replace: Filed Under (or not).
allowing arbitrary tagging will be heavily abused here
In TDWTF forum? Don't know what might have given you that idea...Filed under: I wonder how prominent "sarcsam" would show in a TDWTF tag cloud...
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RE: Everything you need to know about the Shellshock Bash bug
shoulda discosearched
ROFL, just searched for "troyhunt". Discosearch says "No results found." but at the same time highlights every occurrence of the searchphrase in this page.Days without Discoursebug: 0
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RE: So long and thanks for all the bugs!
I was reading some things and I ended up at a blog post from several years ago. ...
Reading the article on TDWTF that provoked that respone, I found this bit of advice from Jeff: "Take less capable developers under your wing. Mentor them. Provide them with guidance".We heeded that advice. This community took Jeff under its wing, told him where he was wrong and how he could build a better software.
Did it help? No.
But Jeff also offered an alternative: "Or you could just post their code on Worse Than Failure for us to laugh at."
I certainly see more Discourse Side Bar WTF topics ahead.
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RE: Poll: TDWTF's new design is...
https://github.com/tdwtf/WtfWebApp/issues
I just had one of those moments - wanted to create a github account ("faoileag", what else), turned out the nick was already taken. Turned out: by me. Sheesh... -
RE: The NEW Official Unofficial Discourse bug tracker!
Tools do not dictate process.
But they do.Using Discourse as a bug tracker dictates the process because you have to manually filter the bug category by severity and keep that list somewhere else, because you can't do it in Discourse.
Using, say, Bugzilla as a bug tracker also dictates the process in that you have to look at the bugs assigned to you first thing in the morning and then to decide what bug you fix first.
Different tools require different processes. You usually choose the tool that requires the least additional overhead in day-to-day operation.
The administrative overhead of using a forum software as a bug tracker is, on a day-to-day basis, larger than that using a dedicated bug tracker.
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RE: Closed Poll: Do you have Discourse Syndrome
Quite a good looking creature. Must have inherited most of my genes then and not @the_dragon's. -
RE: There's a meta question if ever I saw one
More like a lame joke that I read the second time and found unfunny, so I'd prefer to just drop it. Especially on a forum in which it would evolve into a hundred-post flamewar.
If a lame joke of mine would evolve into a hundred-post flamewar, I would be proud. Proud! -
RE: Discourse DMZ
Amazing. We have both where I am. I just caught a regression yesterday from automated testing. Sadly, our human testers find a lot more.
Who writes the automated tests? In most cases, it's the same software developer that's developing the code under test.The example I usually use is that of the leap year: say, you don't know about the "if divisible by 100" exception. Then you code your isLeapYear() method in a way that 2100 is a leap year. And since you write the tests, the tests will pass.
Your colleague at the next table, the human tester, might have a different opinion.
I would rather live without automated tests than without a human tester.
Filed under: sadly, I usually have neither.
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RE: Discourse DMZ
I'm not saying there aren't bugs, there are. It's just the whole chicken little "oh my god the sky is falling" is not something we hear from LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE.
As I said before: you only can get a qualified feedback from people who can tell it's a bug if they experience one.But hey, what else should I expect from a community that's entirely based on making fun of other people's code?
You seem to get rather thin-skinned. To be a pedantic dickweed first: this community is not making fun of your code. This community is making fun of how much bugs a "version 1.0" still has and of the reaction of some of the team when presented with what this community has found when using Discourse.This community consists to a large part of software developers. This community is talking professional-to-professional.
If Discourse would be the hobby project of someone in college, the criticism would be much softer. But Discourse has been developed by people who consider themselves to be professionals (at least that is my perception).
And a professional can expect from a professional a professional reaction when shown where he/she/it has made a mistake.
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RE: Check your basics
TRWTF of course is StackOverflow:
put on hold as off-topic by ... 23 hours ago
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
"This question was caused by a problem that can no longer be reproduced or a simple typographical error. While similar questions may be on-topic here, this one was resolved in a manner unlikely to help future readers. This can often be avoided by identifying and closely inspecting the shortest program necessary to reproduce the problem before posting."Off-topic??? The question is tagged for "c", "performance" and "while-loop" and is a legitimate question someone new to C or C++ might ask.
Brings to mind this blog post concerning StackOverflow.
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RE: Discourse DMZ
"Just use google-search" - Jeff
Too bad that you can't use Google search, because all Google has is the page on which the search phrase is found, but because Discourse uses InfiniScroll tm and is incapable of translating a page number into a post number, so Google search doesn't work on Discourse threads with more than 15 posts.Seriously, whats so difficult in translating "page=3" into 3 * 15 + 1 and arriving at 46 as post id to maneuver Discourse to?
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RE: Poll: Discourse Feature Request on Polls
Why not polls with infinite options?
You mean with a little scrollbar on the right side, and the more you scroll, the more options appear? I can see how this would delight Discourse users! -
RE: Poll: let's choose a TDWTF superhero name
If he was using his meta.d avatar, we could call him 3rd Degree Burns.
=D
Off-by-one error. Did you mean: ≡D? -
RE: So long and thanks for all the bugs!
You can't leave yet! We're still finding more bugs!
Look on the bright side: from now on, when you post them, they won't be closed with WONTFIX. -
RE: The likes topic is a barrier to reading the badge page
No, my brain replaced the vowels and thought of this:
...Zozo...
I'm starting to think that I might have a problem.
I know what you mean. I once played "The Settlers" more or less nonstop for a couple of days.Then I had to take a day off because I had to work. As a "white van man".
Driving along the road, I passed a rather boggy meadow next to a small wood. I looked outside the window, saw that patch of land and my first thought was: "Now this would be a good place to build a castle".
I knew then that I should perhaps spend less hours glued to the screen of that game.
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RE: Are there 'CPU Only' computers?
In mother Russia, Discourse pays protection to you.
I just had a vision of some russian hackers holding up CDCK Inc.: "We have found this serious vulnerability in Discourse, send money via Western Union or we will post it on TDWTF!" -
RE: Groups
That's kind of pointless. How am I going to solicit intimacy now?
Personal message. Then, when things get interesting, invite everybody else. -
RE: Groups
get ready for a headdesk moment - [spoiler]user names and group names are two separate namespaces, despite both being prefixed by an @ sign to make them look the same. So if you have a group @PJH containing all my aliases (hmm..) and a user @PJH, which would get notifications?[/spoiler]
Not surprised. Fits my theory of how Discourse has been developed:- I want to code in Ruby.
- And I want to use Ember.js!
- Hmmm... a new forum software is way overdue!
- Let's start!
- Coding, I mean!
- Coding takes place.
- Finished!
- Beta testing takes place by TDWTF's community.
- They are doing it wrong!
- Version 1.0!!!
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RE: The forum only has one passable poster
we had a beer topic, what more do people need?
I found Discourse very helpful. In the beginning it was such a huge pile of , it was easy to throw a hissy fit about it and by doing so blend in. -
RE: HTML tag abuse thread
. Either have discipline and post in the correct topics / categories about bugs, or have posts moved
So you see it as your job now to discipline members of this community? @codinghorror, you should have never got granted moderator rights on this forum.Edit: to clarify: it is for the poster to decide which topic is best for his current post.
If you can't handle bug reports any other than make them post, clone them. But never move them. If Discourse can't clone: make it so. It is your baby.
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RE: Statsporn - 2014-07-31
As you have been posting these images quite a few number of times so far, I just thought: wouldn't it be nice if that data were available for the user to look up himself/herself/itself?Filed under: no, I will not suggest it on meta.d
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RE: Poll: Polls
Even admitting that I do PHP and that I hold ZCE is practically grounds for tar-and-feathers.
Bug: Discourse is missing a button to tar-and-feather an avatar! -
RE: Discourse DMZ
> blakeyrat said:
The problem is you're demonstrably not doing your best right now,Okay... If you redefine "doing one's best" as "stopping new feature development and fixing all the known bugs" I guess I didn't demonstrably do that!
Sorry I gotta pause for a second. I'm not used to the mental gymnastics required to intepret a straw man that big.
I don't know in what (or how many) companies you have worked before, but SOP in software development, even in open source development, is defining milestones (like "version 1.0") and something called a "feature freeze" in the run-up to that milestone.The reason for a feature freeze is simple: stop introducing new bugs. And free resources so that more existing bugs can be fixed before the release.
Yes, it's more fun developing new features. Yes, it's more fun to play around with UX instead of fixing bugs. But you are co-founder of a company that wants to make money with the product. You should have a vested interest in delivering a solid product, and not in doing the fun stuff. Because the bugs won't go away.
You have been lucky so far to have users like us who care to report bugs. Just consider this: what if the email leaking bug hadn't been reported on meta.discourse.org, but on The Register instead?
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RE: More Proof that Discourse Sucks
That's the community effort at providing a FAQ. Here's the Discourse default FAQ. Not even a single question mark on the entire page.
Holy moly, that's not a FAQ, that's the Ten Commandments. Ok, eight. Eight Commandments.And where the community FAQ made me chuckle, this makes me sad.
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RE: Closed Poll: Do you have Discourse Syndrome
There's functionally zero difference between Android/Chrome on a 10" device and the 7" Nexus 7 that I have. The screen is larger: that's it. Same browser, same OS, but more pixels.
For christ's sake, you are developing a fucking web app. That's front-end code execution. The screen size is the least of the problems you face there.Nexus 10 is a wildly underpowered device for the screen size and resolution it's attempting to run.
Oh, is it? Or is it that your frontend just scales miserably on a slow device?Sorry, when you are developing web apps, you can't expect anything from the device your app is running on. Ignoring slower devices is "This site can only be viewed in Internet Explorer" all over again.
I'm sure future iterations will be better.
Wrong statement. Let me fix that for you:"Future versions of Discourse will work better on slow devices with small screens".
There. Isn't that better?`Now make it happen.
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RE: I'm still a grumpy cat: a final plea to Alex
if you desire a native HTML interface you can't just add JavaScript hacks.
Erm, sorry, but that's simply wrong. Design a forum software right and you can have both.That would mean that you start at the premise that a forum is essentially a collection of HTML pages with some CGI stuff to let people post and reply. You can then add Javascript on top of that, like a fancy editor, "like" buttons that don't trigger a reload, autoloading new posts as they arrive etc.
However, the Discourse design process seems to have been something like this: "Let's build a web app using the Ember framework". Retrospectively then making that web app more "HTML" compatible is difficult if not impossible.
From what I read in the discussions about Discourse on TDWTF, people generally seem to prefer the first approach. Make it work, then add Javascript functionality to make it work nicer and with fancy new features.
Since most people have an attitude of "I am right and you are wrong" from their point of view Discourse is doing it wrong.
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RE: I'm still a grumpy cat: a final plea to Alex
I get the feeling many forums users don't read the front-page anymore.
This could be due to the fact that Discourse is considered by some to be the biggest, most entertaining wtf published on TDWTF in quite some time.My intention was not to gut the community, but if a side-by-side trial of some new software is the sort of thing that breaks it, then it must have been a pretty shitty community to begin with. Let it break. I want no part of such a community.
Strong words. Especially since you call the entire community "shitty" and not just the dissenters who might eventually leave (or have already done so). But honest.TDWTF is your site. Loose some, gain some. Not exactly a charming mindset, though.
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RE: The likes topic is a barrier to reading the badge page
@sam: thanks for a a new method of notification spamming:
I'm sure it will be appreciated in this community!
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RE: Closed Poll: Do you have Discourse Syndrome
Turn it 90° clockwise, then you should see "nexus".
@codinghorror: see, I can learn!
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RE: 🗣 Things Our Customers Have Said About Discourse Thread
@sam, why don't y'all just stuff Jeff into a cupboard under the stairs?
And eleven years later he emerges with a scar on his forehead and superpowers? You can't be serious!