Word cannot handle Microsoft



  • We all know what a WTFish software 'Word' is - can anybody remember which company is responsible for this piece of crap?


    Anyhow, imagine a poor Word user trying to edit an embedded figure - yes, this nice program allows such fancy things! ... sometimes.


    Some other times, you'd get such clear error messages as the following:
    (Translation: "Word cannot edit Microsoft.")



  • No one can handle microsoft... 



  • Is that... Word 2001 for Mac? Man, what an UGLY program that was. I've still got it on my Mac somewhere, like a hideously deformed stepchild that you keep in the basement. There's an option to make the font rendering less horrid, but I forget which one it is.





  • @CRNewsom said:

    A link to the fix:

    Fix? I think you meant "something even worse" that only manages even a minority market share by being free that will only make you look like a "omg linux ftw M$ sux!!" troll for suggesting it.


  • @RayS said:

    I think you meant "something even worse"

    Is it still that bad? I haven't tried it since the first release, so I don't know. But that first one definitely sucked.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    @RayS said:
    I think you meant "something even worse"

    Is it still that bad? I haven't tried it since the first release, so I don't know. But that first one definitely sucked.

    It's better, but still iffy in some areas.  Of course, it's also better than Office in some areas, but not enough that I'd drop Office for it.



  • @bstorer said:

    It's better, but still iffy in some areas.  Of course, it's also better than Office in some areas, but not enough that I'd drop Office for it.
    My client is looking to do exactly that.  Apparently Sun has an enterprise version of OpenOffice.org called StarOffice.  Slowly, they're pushing that out onto the company, starting with IT.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    Apparently Sun has an enterprise version of OpenOffice.org called StarOffice. 
    OpenOffice forked from StarOffice back in the day, didn't it?  My only recollections of using StarOffice were on Solaris 7 (I think) on SPARC machines that sucked at everything.  No surprise then that StarOffice sucked, too.



  • @bstorer said:

    OpenOffice forked from StarOffice back in the day, didn't it?
    According to Wikipedia StarOffice is the proprietary version of OpenOffice, which means they share a significant amount of code base.



  • @bstorer said:

    OpenOffice forked from StarOffice back in the day, didn't it?

    Basically, but StarOffice shares OpenOffice code.

    Historical background

    StarDivision, the original author of the StarOffice suite of software, was founded in Germany in the mid-1980s. It was acquired by Sun Microsystems during the summer of 1999 and StarOffice 5.2 was released in June of 2000. Future versions of StarOffice software, beginning with 6.0, have been built using the OpenOffice.org source, APIs, file formats, and reference implementation. Sun continues to sponsor development on OpenOffice.org and is the primary contributor of code to OpenOffice.org. CollabNet hosts the website infrastructure for development of the product and helps manage the project.

    The OpenOffice.org source code includes the technology which Sun Microsystems has been developing for the future versions of StarOffice(TM) software. The source is written in C++ and delivers language-neutral and scriptable functionality, including Java(TM) APIs. This source technology introduces the next-stage architecture, allowing use of the suite as separate applications or as embedded components in other applications. Numerous other features are also present including XML-based file formats based on the vendor-neutral OpenDocument standard from OASIS and other resources.

    A FAQ addresses the changing differences between OpenOffice.org and StarOffice.


  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    @bstorer said:
    OpenOffice forked from StarOffice back in the day, didn't it?

    Basically, but StarOffice shares OpenOffice code.

    Yeah, that's right.  It's essentially a similar setup to the Netscape/Mozilla thing.



  • @RayS said:

    Fix? I think you meant "something even worse" that only manages even a minority market share by being free that will only make you look like a "omg linux ftw M$ sux!!" troll for suggesting it.

     

    I was really looking for some alternative program that will open .doc files and work on a mac.  The list was not long, and this is the only other app I have worked with.  It's really not that bad.  If you haven't tried it since the first version, I think you will find 2.3 to be a different experience.  Or, maybe you won't.  Either way, I won't care.



  • @CRNewsom said:

    If you haven't tried it since the first version, I think you will find 2.3 to be a different experience.
    Oh, there's no doubt that it's greatly improved.  The first version ran at speeds akin to continental drift.  The latest version's speed is closer to that of glaciers.



  • @bstorer said:

    Oh, there's no doubt that it's greatly improved.  The first version ran at speeds akin to continental drift.  The latest version's speed is closer to that of glaciers.

     

    Didn't you use that analogy to reference some other piece of software?



  • @bstorer said:

    The first version ran at speeds akin to continental drift.  The latest version's speed is closer to that of glaciers.

    I find that's the way with a lot of open source software. They take the phrase "optimize later" a little too seriously.



  • Vista. 



  • @CRNewsom said:

    I was really looking for some alternative program that will open .doc files and work on a mac.  The list was not long, and this is the only other app I have worked with.  It's really not that bad.  If you haven't tried it since the first version, I think you will find 2.3 to be a different experience.  Or, maybe you won't.  Either way, I won't care.

    Use Abiword.  It's 60% of features of Word (the only ones most people need) but only 3 megs and very fast.  It doesn't require Java and it works flawlessly with Word docs.  I use a Windows machine with Office for anything outside of basic word processing because none of the Excel, Project or Visio clones are worth screwing with.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    They take the phrase "optimize later" a little too seriously.
    What specifically are you speaking of? A number of FOSS programs are designed with speed and size in mind, sure the big two desktop environments are horribly bloated but that's what happens when you try to do bullet-list programming, most utilities are made small and light as is the Unix way. Off the top of my head though I can think of the following list (none of which I use, though at one point I did):
    Open Office

    Java

    Gnome

    Democracy (5 minute load time on a 2.4Ghtz machine with 1GB of RAM WTF, unless it craps itself on loading)

    MythTV

    None are what I would call staples of the Linux world.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    I find that's the way with a lot of open source software. They take the phrase "optimize later" a little too seriously.

    True, but sometimes, "later" finally arrives and the improvement is immense. Firefox 3's beta, for example, is much, much faster in javascript tasks.



  • @Lingerance said:

    What specifically are you speaking of?

    I don't know considering I uninstalled most of them. I just remember going through a lot that took forever to load and do things for relatively small functionality.

    @Lingerance said:

    Open Office

    Java

    Gnome

    Java isn't a staple of the Linux world? I thought it would be. Most of the slow apps I've tried were developed in Java (I'm not blaming Java.. it's just a fact that the apps were developed in it).



  • @CRNewsom said:

    @bstorer said:
    Oh, there's no doubt that it's greatly improved.  The first version ran at speeds akin to continental drift.  The latest version's speed is closer to that of glaciers.
    Didn't you use that analogy to reference some other piece of software?
    Probably.  Why waste a good analogy?



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    Java isn't a staple of the Linux world?
    I've been able to live very comfortably without it for the seven years I've used Linux.



  • @mister said:

    True, but sometimes, "later" finally arrives and the improvement is immense. Firefox 3's beta, for example, is much, much faster in javascript tasks.

    I agree with that point. The FF3 benchmarks are extremely impressive. Unfortunately, "sometimes" is exactly that. Something can get up to version 10 and it still takes 15 seconds for the main window to show on a 2.66GHz Pentium D with 1GB RAM and over half of that still available. That's insane. If it's gonna take 15 seconds, it better have some kickass features.



  • @Lingerance said:

    I've been able to live very comfortably without it for the seven years I've used Linux.

    Damn. I wish you lived nearby so I could check out your computer. No one out here knows about Linux, and I'm just now experimenting with it in a VMWare instance.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    Most of the slow apps I've tried were developed in Java
    Or used for devoloping in Java... and named Eclipse...



  • @bstorer said:

    Or used for devoloping in Java... and named Eclipse...

    As slow as that beast is, I'm impressed with the plug-in capability. The best NSIS editor I've found is EclipseNSIS. I'm glad that's the only time I use Eclipse, though.



  • @Lingerance said:

    @AbbydonKrafts said:
    Java isn't a staple of the Linux world?
    I've been able to live very comfortably without it for the seven years I've used Linux.

    Agreed.  I have the JRE installed myself but there is only one app I use regularly that requires it.  I also have the SDK but I'm not sure why since I haven't done real Java development in 4 years or so.  Azureus is a FOSS Java app that doesn't run/look like crap.  OpenOffice is a bloated hunk of crap, IMHO.  Eclipse is written in Java as well and has always been slow and buggy for me.  I will agree that most FOSS is not feature-rich, pretty, stable or secure, but it's usually pretty tight in terms of performance, especially because so much is written in C.  One exception is Firefox, but I hear that is somewhat resolved in FF3.  It still runs all browser windows in a single thread, though, doesn't it?



  • @CRNewsom said:

    I was really looking for some alternative program that will open .doc files and work on a mac. 

    You could try TextEdit which is already in your /Applications folder. There's also Pages which costs $79, but comes with Keynote and Numbers.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    @bstorer said:
    Or used for devoloping in Java... and named Eclipse...

    As slow as that beast is, I'm impressed with the plug-in capability. The best NSIS editor I've found is EclipseNSIS. I'm glad that's the only time I use Eclipse, though.

    I actually like Eclipse.  I just can't run it at the same time as Firefox 2 without bringing my system to its knees.



  • @bstorer said:

    I actually like Eclipse.  I just can't run it at the same time as Firefox 2 without bringing my system to its knees.

    One should be arrested for subjecting a computer to that much strain.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Agreed.  I have the JRE installed myself but there is only one app I use regularly that requires it.  I also have the SDK but I'm not sure why since I haven't done real Java development in 4 years or so.  Azureus is a FOSS Java app that doesn't run/look like crap.  OpenOffice is a bloated hunk of crap, IMHO.  Eclipse is written in Java as well and has always been slow and buggy for me.
    If you're doing Java development, NetBeans IDE is actually much nicer than Eclipse, and is also written in Java.  A lot of people also love jEdit, but it just doesn't have a place in my workflow.As for Azureus, it's not bad, but µTorrent is better.



  • @mister said:

    Firefox 3's beta, for example, is much, much faster in javascript tasks.
    I went and downloaded ff3 beta right when you said this, for the reason you specified there, so I've only been using it for about two minutes.  That's not the WTF.  I've just never been that crazy about downloading beta stuff.

    Anyways, the WTF came when I installed it and booted it up.  It popped up the page saying "hey congrats you've installed the beta etc."  Under features, it mentioned @FF3b5 said:

    Find out who you're talking to by clicking on the website icon.

    So I click on the icon for that page.  Bam!  "This website does not supply identity information."  None of the site I have up (TDWTF, google, Mozilla.com) supply this.  Way to sell me on this feature.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    Anyways, the WTF came when I installed it and booted it up.  It popped up the page saying "hey congrats you've installed the beta etc."  Under features, it mentioned @FF3b5 said:
    Find out who you're talking to by clicking on the website icon.

    So I click on the icon for that page.  Bam!  "This website does not supply identity information."  None of the site I have up (TDWTF, google, Mozilla.com) supply this.  Way to sell me on this feature.

    Huh.  Never even noticed that.  Seems to me like a classic Microsoft create-a-feature-and-make-everyone-scramble-to-support-it strategy to me.



  • @bstorer said:

    If you're doing Java development, NetBeans IDE is actually much nicer than Eclipse, and is also written in Java.  A lot of people also love jEdit, but it just doesn't have a place in my workflow.As for Azureus, it's not bad, but µTorrent is better.

    I think the people who develop Java services here have moved to NetBeans. Also, I agree about µTorrent. It was the only one out of the ones I tried that could fully utilize my bandwidth, but keep a small system footprint while providing detailed information. It downloaded the ~600MB Ubuntu ISO real quick.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @bstorer said:
    I actually like Eclipse.  I just can't run it at the same time as Firefox 2 without bringing my system to its knees.

    One should be arrested for subjecting a computer to that much strain.

    Ha!  That's nothing.  One time I had FF2, Eclipse, and Acrobat open to a 700-page PDF file all running at the same time.  I'm lucky I didn't get burned when the computer exploded.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    So I click on the icon for that page.  Bam!  "This website does not supply identity information."  None of the site I have up (TDWTF, google, Mozilla.com) supply this.  Way to sell me on this feature.
    Try a site that uses https. https://Mail.google.com works for me



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    Also, I agree about µTorrent. It was the only one out of the ones I tried that could fully utilize my bandwidth, but keep a small system footprint while providing detailed information. It downloaded the ~600MB Ubuntu ISO real quick.
      It's great, except that when I'm downloading a lot at once, I can't surf the 'net.  I don't know if Cox is using some failtastic form of traffic shaping or if my router just goes retarded, but I can't reach the DNS servers.



  • @bstorer said:

    Acrobat open to a 700-page PDF

    Wow! I'm surprised you lived to see the aftermath.



  • @bstorer said:

    but I can't reach the DNS servers.
    DNS caching servers are your friend.



  • @bstorer said:

    It's great, except that when I'm downloading a lot at once, I can't surf the 'net.  I don't know if Cox is using some failtastic form of traffic shaping or if my router just goes retarded, but I can't reach the DNS servers.

    Neither can I. It really utilizes my bandwidth. It takes hold of the entire thing. My wife wondered why it was so insanely slow on her end. I told her the torrent was taking it all. Now I hold off on large torrents until I'm about to go to bed, then set them to go while I'm asleep.



  • @Hans Meine said:

    Anyhow, imagine a poor Word user trying to edit an embedded figure - yes, this nice program allows such fancy things! ... sometimes.
     

    Is that an embedded Visio diagram? If it is, and there's no Mac equivalent of Visio installed, then go figure that Word can't do any editing on the figure.

    'course, that doesn't excuse the piss poor excuse of an error message. But hey, at least it's not a standard "Error -BIG_INT Occured" Mac error. 



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    I think the people who develop Java services here have moved to NetBeans.

    I used NetBeans 6 years ago.  It was full of fail and AIDS.  Perhaps it is better now.

     

    @AbbydonKrafts said:

    Also, I agree about µTorrent. It was the only one out of the ones I tried that could fully utilize my bandwidth, but keep a small system footprint while providing detailed information. It downloaded the ~600MB Ubuntu ISO real quick.

    I'll check out uTorrent but Azureus already manages to rape by cable connection so bad it can't crap straight for a week.



  • @MarcB said:

    Is that an embedded Visio diagram? If it is, and there's no Mac equivalent of Visio installed, then go figure that Word can't do any editing on the figure.

    That's why I don't embed anything in a Word doc. Instead, I draw it out using Word shapes. Even embedding images sucks. NONE of the screenshots ever look like they are supposed to. I can paste in a small error message screenshot and Word insists that the original width of the image is twice as wide as the document. Argh!



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I used NetBeans 6 years ago.  It was full of fail and AIDS.  Perhaps it is better now.

    Uhh.. yeah. 6 years ago I would cry if anyone mentioned anything related to Java.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    I'll check out uTorrent but Azureus already manages to rape by cable connection so bad it can't crap straight for a week.

    LMAO!! Mine works fine as soon as I stop it. I can do anything I want in Windows while it's going as long as I don't try to go for the internet. It doesn't cause OS lag -- which was the main thing I was concerned about. I like the information it provides, too. Very detailed and clean.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    LMAO!! Mine works fine as soon as I stop it. I can do anything I want in Windows while it's going as long as I don't try to go for the internet. It doesn't cause OS lag -- which was the main thing I was concerned about. I like the information it provides, too. Very detailed and clean.

    Yeah, as long as I limit my upload speed I can usually download several torrents and still browse comfortably.  I've never actually seen my downstream bandwidth fully saturated.  I like how Azureus shows you the "swarm" view, don't know if uTorrent has a similar.  I love watching my little circle sit in the middle and grow fatter as it gobbles packets.. it's almost hypnotic.



  • @AbbydonKrafts said:

    @bstorer said:
    It's great, except that when I'm downloading a lot at once, I can't surf the 'net.  I don't know if Cox is using some failtastic form of traffic shaping or if my router just goes retarded, but I can't reach the DNS servers.

    Neither can I. It really utilizes my bandwidth. It takes hold of the entire thing. My wife wondered why it was so insanely slow on her end. I told her the torrent was taking it all. Now I hold off on large torrents until I'm about to go to bed, then set them to go while I'm asleep.

    I use a combination of Azureus, a router that doesn't suck (Netgear), Cable internet, and shutting my computer down every night. 

    That last bit is important.  If I don't shut my computer down at night, then I can't get to my website (hosted in my apartment) during the next day.  

    I know I've mentioned my router over on General Discussion, but I like it better than the Linksys I used to use.  The Linksys was fine for large downloads, but for large uploads (like torrents), it just shuts down all non-bittorrent traffic after a few hours abuse.  



  • @belgariontheking said:

    I know I've mentioned my router over on General Discussion, but I like it better than the Linksys I used to use.  The Linksys was fine for large downloads, but for large uploads (like torrents), it just shuts down all non-bittorrent traffic after a few hours abuse.

    Weird.  I have a junky D-Link 802.11G router I bought for $15 2 years ago and I've never had a problem with it.

     

    Also, who do you people use for cable Internet?  I have Comcast and love it.  I guess they do traffic shaping in most regions, but for some reason I seem completely unaffected by it. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Weird.  I have a junky D-Link 802.11G router I bought for $15 2 years ago and I've never had a problem with it.

    I have a Network Everywhere (Linksys) wired router. I paid about $40 for it a few years ago. It's connected to my AT&T 3Mbps DSL modem. They have a 6Mbps option, but it's not available in my area. I've been on the 3Mbps one for years now. Comcast won't even provide cable TV on our road.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Also, who do you people use for cable Internet?
    Roadrunner from Time Warner.  I used to have Zoomtown (DSL) and I like RR better.  The main thing I like better is that Azureus has a way that it will control your upload limit itself based on messages it gets from your ISP (or whatever).  That never worked with Zoomtown, but works with RR.

    WRT the Linksys router shutting down:  That was only the wireless router.  I had a wired Linksys router that worked fine and never shut down for really any reason.  The Netgear has wireless and if it shuts down, it's only for about 30 seconds.  A little annoying when I'm gaming, but well worth the fact that I can take said game anywhere in the apartment.


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