I, ChatGPT
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
@topspin I mean, that's one take but I disagree with it.
I've always thought that Art (as a form of expression, as opposed to art, the product of craft) inherently required intent, and that the actions of the Artist in creating the Art are inherent qualities of the Art itself.
That the choice of a stroke here, or a line there, is on some level intended to be part of the whole, in a way that AI (currently) doesn't. (Whether it ever will is another question, but the distance from prompt engineering to the outcome having intent is very large right now)
To your meme, if the second image were produced by an artist, one would assume that the choices of colour meant something. That the white in the forehead area had a meaning if only to the Artist. That it was intentional rather than just the outcome of a thing.
That said, if an artist rolled dice to provide some kind of baseline and worked from that, one wonders how far down the 'it's art' route we'd be arguing.
There seems to be an unending debate / flame war for the definition of the word "art". It doesn't matter what you use this word for. Coin new words instead of fighting the word for what you think a word should be used for
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@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@PleegWat said in I, ChatGPT:
It's red, yellow, and blue, and if you ever saw it in real life you would have to admit that, just for a moment when you first turned the corner and saw it, you were afraid.
I've seen an artwork on a wall (in an exhibition in Lund a bunch of years ago, IIRC) that was definitely just white. I looked at it for a while, but could not discern what message was encoded there other than "just look what I can get paid for making" (which is a bit of a null message to me).
Probably not this one, then:
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@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@PleegWat said in I, ChatGPT:
It's red, yellow, and blue, and if you ever saw it in real life you would have to admit that, just for a moment when you first turned the corner and saw it, you were afraid.
I've seen an artwork on a wall (in an exhibition in Lund a bunch of years ago, IIRC) that was definitely just white. I looked at it for a while, but could not discern what message was encoded there other than "just look what I can get paid for making" (which is a bit of a null message to me).
Shitposting in an IRL medium.
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@PleegWat boo!
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@DogsB: it is actually a lot more meaningful that plenty of so called modern art.
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@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@PleegWat said in I, ChatGPT:
It's red, yellow, and blue, and if you ever saw it in real life you would have to admit that, just for a moment when you first turned the corner and saw it, you were afraid.
I've seen an artwork on a wall (in an exhibition in Lund a bunch of years ago, IIRC) that was definitely just white. I looked at it for a while, but could not discern what message was encoded there other than "just look what I can get paid for making" (which is a bit of a null message to me).
Shitposting in an IRL medium.
That’s certainly art, quite meta.
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@topspin said in I, ChatGPT:
@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@PleegWat said in I, ChatGPT:
It's red, yellow, and blue, and if you ever saw it in real life you would have to admit that, just for a moment when you first turned the corner and saw it, you were afraid.
I've seen an artwork on a wall (in an exhibition in Lund a bunch of years ago, IIRC) that was definitely just white. I looked at it for a while, but could not discern what message was encoded there other than "just look what I can get paid for making" (which is a bit of a null message to me).
Shitposting in an IRL medium.
That’s certainly art, quite meta.
I mean...the phrase, "I don't know what it is, but I'll know it when I see it," is really the best definition of "art" here. OK, fine, @Arantor wants some kind of human spark of creativity. Other people are just interested in being entertained, or whatever. I can't imagine two people ever actually agreeing, in toto, on what is or isn't "art."
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@boomzilla what “modern art” people have been getting away with was certainly not “I know it when I see it”, it’s “you can’t actually tell if this was done by an artist or a literal chimpanzee”. Exploiting that to the boundaries of “what will arrogant art connoisseurs defend as ‘you just don’t get it’?” is art again.
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@topspin I mean...I agree with you. But there are plenty of people who swoon and pay literal millions of dollars for it, so...
Personally, I mostly skip the generative AI stuff that
posts because it doesn't interest me. It was kind of a novelty, but I have no desire to read AI generated text. But then...the AI pictures that people make can be amusing. And I'm sure some of the AI test can / would be to me if presented appropriately.Who fuckin' knows yet?
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@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
But then...the AI pictures that people make can be amusing.
To me the difference is that those have likely gone through some sort of (possibly very minimal) human filter. There's usually something there that is "interesting" or that the person in question wanted to show.
So, in essence, I see that people can use "AI" as a tool to generate art or whatever, but just running whatever model by itself, unmonitored, usually isn't it. (And, yes, whatever novelty there was has definitively worn off.)
Same for text really. If you're a decent writer, you can probably use LLMs in a productive way. The problem is more when you start cutting out the skilled people. It's a more extreme version of Sturgeon's Law ... with LLMs/generative AI, it's not 90% that's crap, but something like 99.999999999999%.
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@cvi yeah, it's kind of subtle. I mean...filter out most of what people create and you find good stuff, too.
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It's a tough one for sure. But for me intent is a huge part of it; even an artist taking money for a commission may well have intent in the commission but that ends up in the 'craft' bucket more than the 'art' bucket because it's less about having something to say and more 'making something nice'.
Certainly on the occasions I write stories, I'm going for actually saying something and each word is meant with intent to build a mood, or convey something about the substance of it - as opposed to shitposting here which is barely above word salad
Unless it's writing bad limericks, in which case it is word salad. Just carefully chosen words mixed together awkwardly.
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@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
Personally, I mostly skip the generative AI stuff that posts because it doesn't interest me. It was kind of a novelty, but I have no desire to read AI generated text. But then...the AI pictures that people make can be amusing. And I'm sure some of the AI test can / would be to me if presented appropriately.
one thing that sucks on gpt writing is it always wants a happy, politically correct ending, their aligning of gpt destroyed it's usability for writing
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@cvi said in I, ChatGPT:
So, in essence, I see that people can use "AI" as a tool to generate art or whatever, but just running whatever model by itself, unmonitored, usually isn't it. (And, yes, whatever novelty there was has definitively worn off.)
I wouldn't call my prompts for text generation unmonitored, but I agree if we had someone with actual writing skills writing the prompts and adjusting the results it would be completely different
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
Certainly on the occasions I write stories, I'm going for actually saying something and each word is meant with intent to build a mood, or convey something about the substance of it - as opposed to shitposting here which is barely above word salad
I've read things that seemed like they were just trying too hard to do just that. Then, I've read stuff where the author has said he was just trying to entertain, and ended up writing something really interesting and inspiring to me.
I guess I don't feel that intent is really decisive here. I wouldn't put it past an LLM to write something like that, but I wouldn't expect it. But...aside from an artist who's already proven to me that he can...I wouldn't expect it either.
And often even shitposting reveals stuff. Sometimes against the poster's intention, even.
Thinking about the LLM threads here...I'm more interested in reading the output if I'm interested in the prompt. And mostly, I'm not, now that the novelty has passed. But that goes for most of what people write, too.
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I told gpt-4 to pretend to be magneto and it says:
"We seek to bridge the existing chasm between homo sapiens and homo superior with mutual understanding and respect."
That is the opposite of what magneto would say, the entire conflict between magneto and xavier is about Magneto not believing that peace could work
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@sockpuppet7 QED
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@boomzilla let me know if you'll skip this one
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@boomzilla you missed seeing what SDXL think boomzilla looks like
PROMPT: an unusual, wacky, high-concept illustration of Boomzilla surrounded by a surplus of pizza boxes with slices flying around, his face a mask of pure pizza-eating focus and joy
MODEL: SDXL 1.0
SEED: 1524672543
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@boomzilla I think most humans aren't able to write many articles we would want to read anyway
It will be an interesting future of AI gets good enough to produce something on the quality of my favorite Netflix series instantly. Imagine binging on something that never ends, and people fighting addiction to AI content
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@sockpuppet7 Interesting in the usual Agatean sense of the world.
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@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
@topspin said in I, ChatGPT:
@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@PleegWat said in I, ChatGPT:
It's red, yellow, and blue, and if you ever saw it in real life you would have to admit that, just for a moment when you first turned the corner and saw it, you were afraid.
I've seen an artwork on a wall (in an exhibition in Lund a bunch of years ago, IIRC) that was definitely just white. I looked at it for a while, but could not discern what message was encoded there other than "just look what I can get paid for making" (which is a bit of a null message to me).
Shitposting in an IRL medium.
That’s certainly art, quite meta.
I mean...the phrase, "I don't know what it is, but I'll know it when I see it," is really the best definition of "art" here. OK, fine, @Arantor wants some kind of human spark of creativity. Other people are just interested in being entertained, or whatever. I can't imagine two people ever actually agreeing, in toto, on what is or isn't "art."
“Real art takes more time to produce than it takes to defend as being art.”¹
Filed under: still undefeated
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@sockpuppet7 said in I, ChatGPT:
Imagine binging on something that never ends, and people fighting addiction to AI content
We're at the light version of that already, with endless doom scrolling and Youtube/Tiktok/... algorithms optimized to keep you on the platform.
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@sockpuppet7 said in I, ChatGPT:
@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
Personally, I mostly skip the generative AI stuff that posts because it doesn't interest me. It was kind of a novelty, but I have no desire to read AI generated text. But then...the AI pictures that people make can be amusing. And I'm sure some of the AI test can / would be to me if presented appropriately.
one thing that sucks on gpt writing is it always wants a happy, politically correct ending, their aligning of gpt destroyed it's usability for writing
If you take the average of all human creation, that’s the statistically most likely outcome as people love a happy ending.
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
as opposed to shitposting here which is barely above word salad
Some of us craft their shitposting quite carefully.
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@topspin said in I, ChatGPT:
@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
as opposed to shitposting here which is barely above word salad
Some of us craft their shitposting quite carefully.
Like I did in that post?
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
If you take the average of all human creation, that’s the statistically most likely outcome as people love a happy ending.
I like happy endings, but I think their fine tuning for safety made it a bit worse. I don't think the raw GPT would be there yet anyway. I think it beats me at writing, but it doesn't get anywhere near a good writer.
It's awesomeness is that it's much easier to get GPT working for you than a good writer, and we are comparing what it writes instantly to with what said writer would take a lot of work to produce.
I am aware of the lameness of the GPT things I create, but I'm still excited on how close it gets to good. 5 years ago I would never believe AI would get this far on my lifetime.
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@sockpuppet7 it boggles my mind that this is somehow a good thing.
We used to marvel at the idea of robots coming in and doing the menial jobs to let humans have the time and room to be creative. Now we are running headlong toward letting the machines do the creative work leaving humans only the room for menial jobs.
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@sockpuppet7 said in I, ChatGPT:
I am aware of the lameness of the GPT things I create, but I'm still excited on how close it gets to good.
I agree. The apparent quality of the output is impressive.
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@Arantor The future: Your fridge is DMing a D&D adventure for your Roomba, dishwasher and microwave while you are vacuuming the house, doing the dishes and heating dinner over a fire. The adventure seems way more fun and creative than any you've ever attended. But you can console yourself in that you at least do a better job vacuuming the awkward spots that the Roomba can't reach.
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
@sockpuppet7 it boggles my mind that this is somehow a good thing.
We used to marvel at the idea of robots coming in and doing the menial jobs to let humans have the time and room to be creative. Now we are running headlong toward letting the machines do the creative work leaving humans only the room for menial jobs.
We'll see. I think right now the most promising use of LLMs is doing the super boring task of wading through tons of written material and summarizing / classifying / triaging it.
True, it can output mountains of stuff but it still takes someone to find the gems, not unlike other curated things. I'm not convinced by any AI dystopian predictions, including the destruction of creativity or whatever.
At work I might get in on a pilot program to use AI in my IDE. Will be interesting to see how that goes.
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@boomzilla clearly you haven’t been on Twitter seeing all the people telling you that you’re going to be completely replaced in 5 years and if you’re not already using ChatGPT you’re developing wrong.
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@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
@topspin said in I, ChatGPT:
@boomzilla said in I, ChatGPT:
@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@PleegWat said in I, ChatGPT:
It's red, yellow, and blue, and if you ever saw it in real life you would have to admit that, just for a moment when you first turned the corner and saw it, you were afraid.
I've seen an artwork on a wall (in an exhibition in Lund a bunch of years ago, IIRC) that was definitely just white. I looked at it for a while, but could not discern what message was encoded there other than "just look what I can get paid for making" (which is a bit of a null message to me).
Shitposting in an IRL medium.
That’s certainly art, quite meta.
I mean...the phrase, "I don't know what it is, but I'll know it when I see it," is really the best definition of "art" here. OK, fine, @Arantor wants some kind of human spark of creativity. Other people are just interested in being entertained, or whatever. I can't imagine two people ever actually agreeing, in toto, on what is or isn't "art."
If taping a banana to a wall is art, then so is the act of taking it down and eating it.
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
@boomzilla clearly you haven’t been on Twitter seeing all the people telling you that you’re going to be completely replaced in 5 years and if you’re not already using ChatGPT you’re developing wrong.
I've seen some articles claiming as much. Not buying it for a second.
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
clearly you haven’t been on Twitter seeing all the people telling you that you’re going to be completely replaced in 5 years
Let's get an AI bot to summarize all that stuff.
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@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
clearly you haven’t been on Twitter seeing all the people telling you that you’re going to be completely replaced in 5 years
Let's get an AI bot to summarize all that stuff.
Let’s not but say we did.
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
@boomzilla clearly you haven’t been on Twitter seeing all the people telling you that you’re going to be completely replaced in 5 years and if you’re not already using ChatGPT you’re developing wrong.
People saying dumb shit on Twitter is nothing noteworthy.
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Nope, but it could be easily replaced by AI-generated content and nobody would notice the difference. Maybe that's why those people are worried.
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@Zerosquare I’d notice the difference. But I suppose as per Zaphod’s suggestion I could be programmed to say “what?”, “where’s the tea?” and “PHP isn’t so bad, you know” and no-one would be able to tell the difference.
I’d have to be programmed to not notice this, though.
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
@dkf said in I, ChatGPT:
@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
clearly you haven’t been on Twitter seeing all the people telling you that you’re going to be completely replaced in 5 years
Let's get an AI bot to summarize all that stuff.
Let’s not but say we did.
We could it the other way, and outsource it to Guatemalan orphans while saying an AI did it.
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So many AI products. https://www.producthunt.com/
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
creativity will assert itself with artists wanting to find new styles, new ways to assert themselves.
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@Tsaukpaetra and the video features a young Hans Zimmer in his pre-movie era. I don't really have a good point to make about that, except it's a fun fact most people don't know.
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I liked this thread better when people were talking about DIY wireless dildos.
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@DogsB said in I, ChatGPT:
I liked this thread better when people were talking about DIY wireless dildos.
And in true WTDWTF form, no AI was involved in that.
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@cvi said in I, ChatGPT:
@Arantor The future: Your fridge is DMing a D&D adventure for your Roomba, dishwasher and microwave while you are vacuuming the house, doing the dishes and heating dinner over a fire. The adventure seems way more fun and creative than any you've ever attended. But you can console yourself in that you at least do a better job vacuuming the awkward spots that the Roomba can't reach.
And eventually the robots won't even need that!
Queue The Matrix theme....
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
@DogsB said in I, ChatGPT:
I liked this thread better when people were talking about DIY wireless dildos.
And in true WTDWTF form, no AI was involved in that.
Hrm.
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@Arantor said in I, ChatGPT:
So many AI products. https://www.producthunt.com/
just slap a 5 line open ai api call in it and you can put ai powered on your description
it's not like 90% startups weren't stupid before, these investors look really dumb
Take the Money and Run (artwork) - Wikipedia
