Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
then I discovered AM is still a thing in USA and it sounds so bad I want to rip my ears off.
Works fine for talk radio... I listen to KCBS (740) (in the car) to get a quick update on traffic, weather, and news.
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@Gąska AM radio is actually one great argument against HD radio.
I do listen to AM radio (sometimes), because it has a huge range meaning that for example everywhere in the northern half of France I can listen to the BBC (*) (or I can get the public radio for news even in sparsely populated/mountainous areas where FM usually fails). Quality is indeed poor, sometimes horribly so, but usually still good enough for talk radio (news etc.). I'm 100% sure that if it were an HD (=digital) broadcast, I would never be able to listen to it.
(*) fun fact: apparently the AM broadcast is done by a single antenna, which uses a special type of bulb that is not manufactured anymore and for which the BBC has at best one spare in stock. Which means the day this last bulb will go pop, the AM broadcast will stop forever, whether anyone wants it or not.
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@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dkf said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
How the fuck is it that all these years later we still don't have HD radio standard on modern cars?
Do you have an open standard for HD radio in the first place, or is it a mish-mash of proprietary specs? I can't say I'd blame car makers for not wanting to drain that swamp by themselves.
I know that about 10 years ago I had no problem using it on the old car with a $50 aftermarket stereo.
I believe the new car has something like that, as the song titles come through, it just seems to be missing the subchannels.
Analog (non-HD) AM and FM radio stations broadcast that metadata in their analog feeds also. That's not HD Radio. HD Radio is a trade name for digitally broadcasted radio.
How do you broadcast metadata with an analog feed? Is it like CC? do you have any info on how the technology works.
It's the same way you broadcast any digital data over an analog medium. On the transmission end, you feed the digital information through a device called a modulator to convert it to analog. On the recieved end, it gets concerted back to digital so it can show up on your car's display by a demodulator.
In the Early Internet days, when everything was sent over analog phone lines (and all stations were transmit/recieve), the modulator and demodulator were combined into a single device called a modem.
An HD Radio station can have up to four digital subchannels, but one of them has to be a simulcast of an analog feed broadcast from the same location.
Yes, and it was amazing. I think the Sirius and XM Radio's of the worlds are keeping it from being adopted.
I'm pretty sure it's not that. It's more that nobody listens to traditional radio anymore. SiriusXM is hurting too.
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@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
How the fuck is it that all these years later we still don't have HD radio standard on modern cars?
- because HD radio is proprietary
- because HD radio is only a thing in the US (I think?), the rest of the world uses DAB+
- because many cars are so noisy that there is hardly any discernable difference between HD radio and analog radio
- because a lot of people have switched from analog radio to streaming services
Over here in the Nether Regions (aka Holland) I sometimes hear a commercial on the (streaming) radio, that the station just added a channel on DAB+. Every time I hear it I have the urge to check my calendar if maybe it is still 2005.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
So what is the killer-feature that makes HD radio such a good idea?
It's digital, so you can fit more channels in the same amount of spectrum. If the US was to go all-digital and stop analog broadcasting, they could fit 7 FM stations in the space that they allocate for one station now.
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@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I don't know about you, but my not so old cars don't really pair with my phone without echo auto. How do you guys do it?
My 12 year old car just pairs with my phone.
As did the 2 cars I had before this one, although they were not older. The first was a 2009 and the next a 2013 model.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
an excuse to do nothing productive for 100 minutes at a time?
FTFme
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
It's digital, so you can fit more channels in the same amount of spectrum.
So a vague technical advantage (have we actually run out of channel space for radio? I've never heard of it being a serious problem, but maybe...), which has absolutely 0 advantage to consumers, who have to pay (at the very least by buying new hardware) for the privilege of getting this lack of benefit.
It was already hard and long enough () to get people to change their TV sets to switch to digital TV, where there was an obvious potential benefit to consumers (the possibility to switch to HD), so doing it when there is no benefit? ( again) Good luck with that...
No wonder it never really took off.
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@nerd4sale said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
because HD radio is only a thing in the US (I think?), the rest of the world uses DAB+
This part doesn't matter. AM Radio and FM Radio work differently in Europe too. (The valid bands of spectrum are different widths, and different parts of the spectrum are used for AM and FM between the two continents.)
You need a different radio on each continent anyway.
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@remi maybe I'm unique, but despite relatively young age I use car radio all the time, and I switch between radio stations a lot to find music I can listen to. Fitting more channels in the same bandwidth is a huge improvement for me, because it means more songs to choose from at any given moment. Also, being digital means consistent quality even if you go through tunnels etc. and at the edge of reception range.
It's a super tiny QoL improvement, but an improvement nonetheless. And as a consumer, it costs me absolutely nothing, so what's not to like?
And it doesn't matter how many people use it. What matters is how many broadcasters offer it. And at least in Chicago area, it's like 2/3rds of all FM radios here. Maybe more. And most of those offer at least 2 streams on their band, which means about 80% of music on air is HD.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
It's digital, so you can fit more channels in the same amount of spectrum.
So a vague technical advantage (have we actually run out of channel space for radio? I've never heard of it being a serious problem, but maybe...), which has absolutely 0 advantage to consumers, who have to pay (at the very least by buying new hardware) for the privilege of getting this lack of benefit.
I live in the NYC area, and lack of available radio stations has historically been a serious problem here.
Most places aren't as diverse in terms of "what do people want to listen to on the radio?" as the NYC metro area. But everyone who owns a radio station either lives in NYC or Los Angeles, which has the same problem.
If not for streaming, which also solves this problem, HD Radio would have taken off in metropolitan areas.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
AM Radio and FM Radio work differently in Europe too.
In particular, FM does and AM doesn't.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
It was already hard and long enough to get people to change their TV sets to switch to digital TV
Switch to digital TV! It is better! And costs only €10/month extra!
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@PleegWat said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
It was already hard and long enough to get people to change their TV sets to switch to digital TV
Switch to digital TV! It is better! And costs only €10/month extra!
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
HD radio such a good idea?
it's just a marketing name. Nothing HD about HD radio. Sure it's digital like DAB+ but quality wise this makes hardly a difference IF you are correctly tuned and within reach of the FM broadcast.
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@Luhmann said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
it's just a marketing name. Nothing HD about HD radio
Just like the "HD Sunglasses" they keep hawking on commercials.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
everywhere in the northern half of France I can listen to the BBC
Without a loicense?
I'm 100% sure that if it were an HD (=digital) broadcast, I would never be able to listen to it.
Definitely not, but isn't that rather related to the frequency bands AM uses compared to FM?
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I live in the NYC area, and lack of available radio stations has historically been a serious problem here.
Not if you actually have an HD radio as most stations do broadcast at least 2 subchannels.
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@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
everywhere in the northern half of France I can listen to the BBC
Without a loicense?
't's OK, any copper trying to come here would be quarantined when coming back and in that time they would forget what they had come to fine me for.
I'm 100% sure that if it were an HD (=digital) broadcast, I would never be able to listen to it.
Definitely not, but isn't that rather related to the frequency bands AM uses compared to FM?
Probably, but I'm describing an hypothetical scenario here (I don't think digital AM even exists) and my point is that whenever the reception quality is a bit low (which is all the time with AM, but quite common with FM as well), a digital broadcast will cut out whereas an analog one might still be noisy, but understandable.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi maybe I'm unique, but despite relatively young age I use car radio all the time, and I switch between radio stations a lot to find music I can listen to. Fitting more channels in the same bandwidth is a huge improvement for me, because it means more songs to choose from at any given moment.
It also relies on the broadcasters actually filling that space, but yeah, OK, possibly an advantage.
Too bad it's one that was entirely and irremediably killed by the internet (which also explains why HD radio didn't really take off, as all radio is slowly dying).
Also, being digital means consistent quality even if you go through tunnels etc. and at the edge of reception range.
The sound quality vs. signal quality curve is more or less a step for digital (and a declining curve for analog), which is good or bad depending on which side of the step you are.
It's a super tiny QoL improvement, but an improvement nonetheless. And as a consumer, it costs me absolutely nothing, so what's not to like?
You mean, apart from buying a new radio? Sure, if it comes bundled in your new car, you don't pay for it (or rather you do but it's mixed with the rest), but if you had to buy a new radio just to get that? Fat chance.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
but if you had to buy a new radio just to get that? Fat chance.
People buy addons that just add DAB to their exisiting radio - and some of them are more expensive than replacing the entire unit, so yeah I can see people doing exactly that.
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@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I live in the NYC area, and lack of available radio stations has historically been a serious problem here.
Not if you actually have an HD radio as most stations do broadcast at least 2 subchannels.
Historically = prior to HD Radio
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@Luhmann said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
HD radio such a good idea?
it's just a marketing name. Nothing HD about HD radio. Sure it's digital like DAB+ but quality wise this makes hardly a difference IF you are correctly tuned and within reach of the FM broadcast.
Technically, because it requires less spectrum to transmit the same data, HD Radio can be used to get higher radio quality. At the highest quality level, FM HD Radio it produces near CD quality sound.
However, spectrum is still limited, so broadcasting at higher quality levels means you can't also broadcast subchannels in the stream. More stations broadcast subchannels than broadcast in higher quality, although I think there's a few classical music stations that do take advantage.
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@loopback0 said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
People buy addons that just add DAB to their exisiting radio
Do they really? I mean, I'm sure those add-ons exist, but do a significant number of people really buy them? I've never heard of anyone doing so, but of course that doesn't mean anything.
Let's say I'm still very sceptical about the value of HD. Probably the only reason it's slowly taking over is that people get it "for free" when buying a new car (I guess?), and the average age of cars in Europe is 11.5 years (says Google), which is less than the latest DAB standard (DAB+ is 2007), so progressively all cars are going to get it.
Though since many non-car radios sold nowadays still are not HD, I foresee many more years before a country can switch to HD-only. AFAICS, only Norway has done so yet (with Switzerland "planning" to do it in 2023)?
(fake edit: it seems that the EU is pushing for it but that countries are actually just starting to mandate it for cars, and even less countries are mandating it for other radios yet, which confirms my idea that it's going to be years before analog is switched off)
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@Parody said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I do know that they were late to smartphones since their main form of communication was Push-To-Talk.
I'll be really surprised if construction or heavy equipment use in general moves off PTT ever.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Also, being digital means consistent quality even if you go through tunnels etc. and at the edge of reception range.
No. It more likely means all-or-nothing quality, and if not, will degrade with signal.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
So what is the killer-feature that makes HD radio such a good idea?
- FM radio frequency bands encompass a range of 88mhz-108mhz with 0.2mhz spacing which allows for 100 stations in any particular broadcast area. HD radio works in 8 subchannels of each 0.2mhz license so you can essentially fit 800 broadcasts in the space that would previously only accommodate 100.
- Higher fidelity sound, which I know you shit all over the idea of, but HD radio can transmit CD quality sound that covers the entire audible frequency range from 20hz-20khz whereas analog FM is limited to ~88hz-15khz. Which might have mattered to me before I spent a decade in close proximity to heavy machinery
- AM radio is usually simulcast on HD radio also, so you can listen to talk radio without the pops and hisses and also in stereo
You mentioned how HD television broadcasts will cut out but analog ones fail more gracefully. If you are listening to HD radio that is a simulcast of their analog FM station and the HD radio cuts out then any stereo complying with the standard should failover to analog and continue playing with reduced sound quality. NFC if an AM simulcast will. I'm guessing no. Any non-simulcast subchannels will not failover as they have nothing to failover to. But since adoption rates are so low, subchannels are not used much and the ones that actually are broadcasting are airing bullshit filler, IME.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
It's certainly the proper way for a racing driver.
Huh? I suppose it would be for dual clutch or whatever. But if you have to work a clutch in a racecar then you would use your left foot exclusively for the clutch and heel-toe the brake and accelerator when needed.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
fun fact: apparently the AM broadcast is done by a single antenna, which uses a special type of bulb that is not manufactured anymore and for which the BBC has at best one spare in stock. Which means the day this last bulb will go pop, the AM broadcast will stop forever, whether anyone wants it or not.
Do they not have any intention to refit it with more modern transmitters?
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I use car radio all the time, and I switch between radio stations a lot to find music I can listen to.
That right there is why so many people don't listen to broadcast radio anymore. If you listen on your phone or other device then chances are you have curated lists of music that you want to listen to and don't have to go channel surfing when they play the same shitty song 4 times an hour and drive you away with 1/4 of the broadcast time being commercials.
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@Parody said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Carnage said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Got home from the dealer. A nice 3 hour drive, and I fell in love with this car. Adaptive CC is the best - most of the way I only touched the wheel and nothing else. The 11" screen is not as cool as I thought, since Android Auto is constrained to ~16:9 horizontal. And the best part - because of the impact my younger sister would have on insurance premium, I have a solid reason to never let her borrow it!
The only problem is volume control. The ingenius software developers of Subaru decided that everybody wants to adjust radio volume and navigation volume independently. So if you turn up radio, navigation becomes inaudible until you change it too, and if you turn dow radio, navigation becomes ear rape. Only a person who's never driven a car could come up with that. It seems to be a common problem in all Subarus since at least 2019.
Yeah, also phone has a separate volume control too. Or at least it had in my subs.
I always just turn off navigation audio, so it never bothered me but if you want it I can understand how annoying that could be.I never use navigation so it wouldn't bother me either.
Most of my navigation usage is for traffic avoidance purposes.
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@Gribnit said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I'll be really surprised if construction or heavy equipment use in general moves off PTT ever.
Then go ahead and be surprised, IME it did that over a decade ago.
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@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Most of my navigation usage is for traffic avoidance purposes.
And crowd sourced reports of speed traps.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Gribnit said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I'll be really surprised if construction or heavy equipment use in general moves off PTT ever.
Then go ahead and be surprised, IME it did that over a decade ago.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
But since adoption rates are so low, subchannels are not used much and the ones that actually are broadcasting are airing bullshit filler, IME.
I don't know, back when I was listening to it, I didn't particularly find a difference between the songs offered by the main channel vs the subchannels. Of course I might just not be picky or misremembering.
I do think that there are a lot of ethnic channels that are only available on HD.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Most of my navigation usage is for traffic avoidance purposes.
And crowd sourced reports of speed traps.
Not sure why nobody's made a police band triangulation app to bell all the cats. Maybe some forms of stochastic terrorism are actually not allowed?
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@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
But since adoption rates are so low, subchannels are not used much and the ones that actually are broadcasting are airing bullshit filler, IME.
I don't know, back when I was listening to it, I didn't particularly find a difference between the songs offered by the main channel vs the subchannels. Of course I might just not be picky or misremembering.
I do think that there are a lot of ethnic channels that are only available on HD.
Well, yeah, you get that with your basic ethnic.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
It's certainly the proper way for a racing driver.
Huh? I suppose it would be for dual clutch or whatever.
Yes, that's what I was thinking about. Indycar and F1 (and some of the lower formulas) both use... whatever systems they use, I'm not interested enough in the technobabble to care, but the upshot is that they don't have a clutch pedal.
Of course I should have predicted someone here would me on that
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@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Parody said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Carnage said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Got home from the dealer. A nice 3 hour drive, and I fell in love with this car. Adaptive CC is the best - most of the way I only touched the wheel and nothing else. The 11" screen is not as cool as I thought, since Android Auto is constrained to ~16:9 horizontal. And the best part - because of the impact my younger sister would have on insurance premium, I have a solid reason to never let her borrow it!
The only problem is volume control. The ingenius software developers of Subaru decided that everybody wants to adjust radio volume and navigation volume independently. So if you turn up radio, navigation becomes inaudible until you change it too, and if you turn dow radio, navigation becomes ear rape. Only a person who's never driven a car could come up with that. It seems to be a common problem in all Subarus since at least 2019.
Yeah, also phone has a separate volume control too. Or at least it had in my subs.
I always just turn off navigation audio, so it never bothered me but if you want it I can understand how annoying that could be.I never use navigation so it wouldn't bother me either.
Most of my navigation usage is for traffic avoidance purposes.
When I was going to pick up my new car, there was a traffic jam on the highway. Suddenly, Google Maps told me to leave at the nearest exist, U-turn at the nearest intersection, and get back on the highway. It saved me like 5 minutes. I was impressed.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
fun fact: apparently the AM broadcast is done by a single antenna, which uses a special type of bulb that is not manufactured anymore and for which the BBC has at best one spare in stock. Which means the day this last bulb will go pop, the AM broadcast will stop forever, whether anyone wants it or not.
Do they not have any intention to refit it with more modern transmitters?
Not that I've heard about. When I heard this story (a few years ago, and I don't remember where... probably somewhere on the BBC since they're the only ones who care about that!), they basically said that they were waiting for it to die naturally as a good (?) way to end the AM broadcast.
Tying that in with the rest of this thread, there is simply not enough interest in an AM station for them to keep it (or at least that's what they were saying).
AFAICT, it's used by a few isolated places in the UK that can't get FM, but nowadays even those are likely to have some sort of cell network (so possible internet access). Ships have probably stopped using it since long (despite the radio still carrying the "shipping forecast" weather bulletin). That leaves expats and the like in e.g. France, but as humorously pointed out above, those don't pay a license so the BBC has little incentive to care about them (and also they can get the radio through internet as well).
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Parody said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Carnage said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Got home from the dealer. A nice 3 hour drive, and I fell in love with this car. Adaptive CC is the best - most of the way I only touched the wheel and nothing else. The 11" screen is not as cool as I thought, since Android Auto is constrained to ~16:9 horizontal. And the best part - because of the impact my younger sister would have on insurance premium, I have a solid reason to never let her borrow it!
The only problem is volume control. The ingenius software developers of Subaru decided that everybody wants to adjust radio volume and navigation volume independently. So if you turn up radio, navigation becomes inaudible until you change it too, and if you turn dow radio, navigation becomes ear rape. Only a person who's never driven a car could come up with that. It seems to be a common problem in all Subarus since at least 2019.
Yeah, also phone has a separate volume control too. Or at least it had in my subs.
I always just turn off navigation audio, so it never bothered me but if you want it I can understand how annoying that could be.I never use navigation so it wouldn't bother me either.
Most of my navigation usage is for traffic avoidance purposes.
When I was going to pick up my new car, there was a traffic jam on the highway. Suddenly, Google Maps told me to leave at the nearest exist, U-turn at the nearest intersection, and get back on the highway. It saved me like 5 minutes. I was impressed.
Yea, I use GPS 95% of the time, and mostly for traffic purposes, but also if I'm going to an unfamiliar place.
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@dangeRuss driving in American cities be like
s/twisty/completely straight/g
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
fun fact: apparently the AM broadcast is done by a single antenna, which uses a special type of bulb that is not manufactured anymore and for which the BBC has at best one spare in stock. Which means the day this last bulb will go pop, the AM broadcast will stop forever, whether anyone wants it or not.
Do they not have any intention to refit it with more modern transmitters?
Not that I've heard about. When I heard this story (a few years ago, and I don't remember where... probably somewhere on the BBC since they're the only ones who care about that!), they basically said that they were waiting for it to die naturally as a good (?) way to end the AM broadcast.
The equipment in question covers just the long wave version of a single radio station (Radio 4), which is also broadcast on FM and DAB. That's all that stops when it goes pop, although the BBC announced years ago they weren't investing in long wave and there's only like 3 other stations left.
A handful also on MW but transmitted elsewhere.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dangeRuss driving in American cities be like
s/twisty/completely straight/g
Now, to a taxi or limo driver, of course, they are all different.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Of course, now they come with really good stereos, so it is much less of a thing than it used to be.
How the fuck is it that all these years later we still don't have HD radio standard on modern cars?
Because everyone has a smartphone and nobody listens to the radio, so nobody misses it.
We use flash drives full of mp3s.
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@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Of course, now they come with really good stereos, so it is much less of a thing than it used to be.
How the fuck is it that all these years later we still don't have HD radio standard on modern cars?
Because everyone has a smartphone and nobody listens to the radio, so nobody misses it.
We use flash drives full of mp3s.
Ha, I use a remote SSD with... probably mp3s, maybe .ogg, but! via a productized interface.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Of course I should have predicted someone here would me on that
We all tend to speak from where we have experience. I have fuckall experience with any of that type of racing. I've never been around it and even when I was a lot younger, a lot more limber and a lot skinnier I never would have been able to fit my big ass in one of those cars.
But more (conventiona?) types of racing, where there is a clutch, I have a small amount of familiarity with. I was saddened when Ferrari stopped even offering a conventional manual transmission, not that I would ever spend that kind of money on a car. But still. I dig manual transmissions for fun cars.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Most of my navigation usage is for traffic avoidance purposes.
And crowd sourced reports of speed traps.
Yeah, that, too.
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@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@boomzilla said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Most of my navigation usage is for traffic avoidance purposes.
And crowd sourced reports of speed traps.
Yeah, that, too.
Any interest in constantly triangulating the position of all police-band transmitters?
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dangeRuss driving in American cities be like
s/twisty/completely straight/g
That's more like the suburbs. Cities are usually on grids.