Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence
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Amazon's Massive Tracking Network Is Turned On By Default. Here's How to Turn It Off
The company's Sidewalk mesh network goes live June 8. The good news is that you can turn it off.
Last week, Amazon said it would turn on Sidewalk, its mesh network that uses Bluetooth [2.4GHz band communications] and 900MHz radio signals to communicate between devices, on June 8. I imagine that most people, even those who bought an Echo smart speaker in the past few years, have no idea what Sidewalk is.
I suspect most of those people would be even more surprised to know that it's turned on by default on every one of their devices.
Ok, granted, assuming they're using fairly small antennas and most of these devices are installed inside a home, the noise level won't really be thaaaaat bad in open air, especially when you account for the fact that WISPs use highly directional antennas and are usually some combination of many feet above the ground or many feet away from the house to get around that wonderful privacy screen of trees. But yikes, talk about malicious indifference to being a good neighbor in unlicensed spaces.
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@izzion said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
WISPs use highly directional antennas
By WISP, do you mean this?
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@dkf said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@izzion said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
WISPs use highly directional antennas
By WISP, do you mean this?
Correct. Most WISPs (in the US, at least, I don't have direct experience with European WISPs but there were a bunch that attended Mikrotik conferences and were active in the MT forums when I was, so I assume they have similar constraints) operate as "fixed location long-distance WiFi" services, using unlicensed frequency bands for the last mile connection to users (and sometimes 5GHz unlicensed for backhaul from service towers upstream, depending on the volume of traffic at the tower -- higher volume towers usually require higher-bandwidth licensed frequency links or physical fiber for backhaul).
In the US especially, 900 MHz and 2.4GHz last-mile service is still pretty common in rural areas, due to their better performance profile over distances with minor to moderate tree obstructions.
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The other really annoying thing is that the only way to turn off the setting is through the Alexa app. You can't turn it off through logging into the Alexa or Amazon web sites, and you can't turn it off through voice commands. I don't have a smartphone, and my old Amazon tablet that did have the app on it broke, so my Echo devices work fine but I can't control this setting, which is rather… user-hostile.
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@pcooper said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
I don't have a smartphone
How do you function in modern society?
Hell, every restaurant I've been post-quarantine has had QR codes instead of physical menus.
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@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Hell, every restaurant I've been post-quarantine has had QR codes instead of physical menus.
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@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Hell, every restaurant I've been post-quarantine has had QR codes instead of physical menus.
Well, more than half, at least. People don't want to touch things other people have recently touched.
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@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Hell, every restaurant I've been post-quarantine has had QR codes instead of physical menus.
Well, more than half, at least. People don't want to touch things other people have recently touched.
Thankfully QR codes never cought on around here.
As for menus, I've never seen non-physical one.
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@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Hell, every restaurant I've been post-quarantine has had QR codes instead of physical menus.
Well, more than half, at least. People don't want to touch things other people have recently touched.
Thankfully QR codes never cought on around here.
As for menus, I've never seen non-physical one.We went out to dinner a couple weeks ago to one of our favorite Mexican restaurants and they had the QR codes, but we asked for a single menu and they gave us one.
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@MrL I don't know which shard of the multiverse @error is from but I know it's not even remotely close to this one.
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I certainly have a smartphone but I'm surprised by the non-empty intersection of people who don't have one and people who have an Amazon Echo.
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@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Hell, every restaurant I've been post-quarantine has had QR codes instead of physical menus.
Well, more than half, at least. People don't want to touch things other people have recently touched.
Thankfully QR codes never cought on around here.
As for menus, I've never seen non-physical one.The ones I've seen just take you to the menu on the restaurant's web page.
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@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
I don't have a smartphone
How do you function in modern society?
Just… fine, I guess?
I'm either at home, where I have computers everywhere, or at the office, where I have a computer. Or I'm in my car, where the old flip phone works just fine to tell the wife that I'm stuck in traffic. Being able to carry a computer in my pocket seems, fun, sure, and I'm sure I'd use it if I got one, but never really seemed necessary or worth the expense. The cell service out where I live is spotty as best, which may be part of why we were such late adopters of cell technology at all, since it really isn't at ubiquitous coverage yet.
The Echo I find quite handy, for things like adding diapers to the shopping list while I'm in the middle of changing a baby, and the wife and kids especially use it a ton for setting various timers while throughout the living room.
@topspin said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
I'm surprised by the non-empty intersection of people who don't have one and people who have an Amazon Echo.
For quite a while Amazon was selling a device to connect your Echo to your landline, so that you can make phone calls using just your voice, which is particularly handy for the elderly or other mobility-impaired people that are worried about falling without anybody around to help them. (The "Send help, I've fallen and I can't get up" use case.) I had thought one of the main advantages of the Echo was the whole being able to look anything up instantly without needing a smartphone.
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@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Well, more than half, at least. People don't want to touch things other people have recently touched.
And, just like that, most single people's sexuality just ended
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@pcooper said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
the old flip phone works just fine
I had to get a new phone a few years ago, when T-Moble decommissioned all their CDMA equipment. I looked at getting a new flip or feature phone, but the only way to get one at a reasonable price was to get a contract with service provider. Getting an unlocked, non-contract phone was as expensive as a non-flagship smartphone. Since the only reason for considering a non-smart phone was price, and it turned out there was no price advantage, getting a smartphone was the obvious choice. Now, having had one, I wouldn't go back to a non-smart phone, even if there were a huge price difference.
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@HardwareGeek
Last I looked (a few years ago) a flip phone sold for 20€.
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@topspin In the US, that was (a few years ago) about right, if you got one with a contract to a specific carrier. If you wanted one that was unlocked and could be switched from one carrier to another, it was probably $150 or so. Or maybe not available at all. I don't remember for sure; this was 4 or 5 years ago.
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@TimeBandit said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@error said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Well, more than half, at least. People don't want to touch things other people have recently touched.
And, just like that, most single people's sexuality just ended
TIL TimeBandit is into sloppy seconds.
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@topspin In the US, that was (a few years ago) about right, if you got one with a contract to a specific carrier. If you wanted one that was unlocked and could be switched from one carrier to another, it was probably $150 or so. Or maybe not available at all. I don't remember for sure; this was 4 or 5 years ago.
I should’ve bought them all and shipped them to the US, then.
(But then you probably have bring your own phone charges or similar nonsense that would make the effective cost just as high)
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@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Thankfully QR codes never cought on around here.
As for menus, I've never seen non-physical one.It doesn't matter if QR codes have been cought on; you don't have to touch them to scan them with your phone's camera. What people are worried about is whether a physical menu has been cought on.
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@MrL said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Thankfully QR codes never cought on around here.
As for menus, I've never seen non-physical one.There were a few places that had this as an option before COVID. I kinda liked the option - you could order and pay via the phone as well. For busy places, it just streamlined everything. Made it easier when people got there or had to leave earlier/later.
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Semi-related:
https://youtu.be/_E0PWQvW-14From what I understand, the idea is that these can communicate with each other / random apple devices as well. So they are supposed to work even if you drop your keys slightly outside of your wifi range or whatever.
Filed under: Somewhat unlike Apple to make them user programmable, though.
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@izzion I'm out to kill every wasp (NB. Hymenoptera, not acronymic) in existence. This goal is of course purely aspirational.
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@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
From what I understand, the idea is that these can communicate with each other / random apple devices as well.
To locate lost items, AirTags leverage Apple's crowdsourced Find My network, estimated in early 2021 to consist of approximately one billion devices worldwide that detect and anonymously report emitted Bluetooth signals.
AirTags can be located on a map within the Find My app by utilizing Bluetooth signals from other anonymous iOS and iPadOS devices out in the world.
Users can mark an AirTag as lost and provide a phone number and a message. Any iPhone user can see this phone number and message with the "identify lost item" feature within the Find My app which utilizes near-field communication (NFC) technology. Additionally, Android phones with NFC can identify an AirTag with a tap, which will redirect to a website containing the message and phone number.
So apparently, the way it works is that AirTags broadcast “here I am” to any device in range, and if the receiver runs (a recent version of) iOS or iPadOS, this notifies a server of the AirTag’s location.
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@Gurth Yeah. To be fair, I think I might have been mixing it up with Samsung's SmartTag(+?), but they seem to work fairly similarly. Samsung's version doesn't mention the thing about leaving a phone number/message (which I don't quite get why you'd want to do).
While the device is inside of the Bluetooth range (120 meters), it can play a ringtone to alert the user of its exact location. If the device is outside of the range, the device can still be located using Samsung's Galaxy Find Network, which uses Samsung Galaxy phones in the area to pinpoint the location of the device.
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@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Bluetooth range (120 meters)
I can't always get my Bluetooth keyboard to work reliably at 120 mm.
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Bluetooth range (120 meters)
I can't always get my Bluetooth keyboard to work reliably at 120 mm.Doesn't need to be a stable connection.
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Bluetooth range (120 meters)
I can't always get my Bluetooth keyboard to work reliably at 120 mm.I went through several Bluetooth mice to find one that could cross my living room. (The first keyboard I found worked fine, though!)
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@Frank-Wilhoit said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@izzion I'm out to kill every wasp (NB. Hymenoptera, not acronymic) in existence. This goal is of course purely aspirational.
Off by one is
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
I can't always get my Bluetooth keyboard to work reliably at 120 mm.
I've found that Bluetooth range is strongly dependent on the length of the extension cable for the Bluetooth dongle. With a 120mm USB extension cable, you can probably have the keyboard 120mm from your computer. But, yes, a 120m USB cable does sound somewhat unrealistic.
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@cvi Toby Faire, the problem is almost certainly with the keyboard's battery-saving mode and/or the Ubuntu BT drivers, not BT itself. If left in battery-saving mode too long, like over a 3-day weekend, it will disconnect and refuse to reconnect. This morning, I had to delete and set up again the device 2 or 3 times in the Ubuntu BT settings dialog before I could get it to connect successfully. It looks like Ubuntu was seeing the keyboard as a brand-new BT device, not the one that already existed in the disconnected state. It would connect momentarily, then disconnect, and a new device would appear in the list.
Note: Disconnected != not paired. I don't know what the difference is, but it would show the keyboard as paired but disconnected.
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Toby Faire, the problem is almost certainly with the keyboard's battery-saving mode and/or the Ubuntu BT drivers, not BT itself.
I've found BT to be a bit hit and miss. In some environments it works great. In others ... not so much. Was for a while in an office where I pretty much had to have the BT receiver within ~5cm of the keyboard for it to work reliably. Other places - no problems. (Switched to a wired keyboard some time ago ... if nothing else, I don't miss the random problems.)
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@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Switched to a wired keyboard some time ago
I'd have to buy a USB hub to do that. This laptop has zero available ports. If it had a free port, I'd use it for the keyboard's 2.4GHz dongle (it supports both BT and 2.4GHz), and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
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@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Samsung's version doesn't mention the thing about leaving a phone number/message (which I don't quite get why you'd want to do).
So that if someone finds it that's honest enough to want to return it, they can message you to organise doing so?
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@topspin In the US, that was (a few years ago) about right, if you got one with a contract to a specific carrier. If you wanted one that was unlocked and could be switched from one carrier to another, it was probably $150 or so. Or maybe not available at all. I don't remember for sure; this was 4 or 5 years ago.
I bought a flip phone from T-Mobile last year and it was about $100 "unlocked", so that sounds about right. Of course, I had to order it online because their in-person stores refuse to sell anything without a service plan.
(I've got a 13 year-old grandfathered Pay-As-You-Go plan that only requires $10 per year to prevent my minutes from expiring, and apparently that's not good enough for them)
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@Rhywden said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Bluetooth range (120 meters)
I can't always get my Bluetooth keyboard to work reliably at 120 mm.Doesn't need to be a stable connection.
Which is why bluetooth mice are truly something invented by the devil.
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
the problem is almost certainly with the keyboard's battery-saving mode and/or the Ubuntu BT drivers, not BT itself
Can confirm. I tried using a BT speaker with Ubuntu. Fuck that shit. I'll live with the laptop's tinny speakers.
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If they intend to kill off every one of these shitskulls, I won't stand in their way.
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@dcon said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
I tried using a BT speaker with Ubuntu. Fuck that shit. I'll life with the laptop's tinny speakers.
Just for fun, one time I connected my phone to my desktop with Bluetooth, then connected my Bluetooth headset to it, then played music from my phone and it came out from my headset. Worked perfectly, no issue at all.
I'll stick to Debian and keep ignoring Ubuntu
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Note: Disconnected != not paired. I don't know what the difference is, but it would show the keyboard as paired but disconnected.
I thought “paired” means “the computer has been told to remember this device,” while “disconnected” is “there is currently no connection between the computer and the device”. Seems like Ubuntu has a problem with the former.
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@HardwareGeek said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
@cvi said in Amazon out to kill every WISP in existence:
Bluetooth range (120 meters)
I can't always get my Bluetooth keyboard to work reliably at 120 mm.Depends on which Bluetooth standard it uses. Most motorcycle intercoms use Bluetooth and has a range of several hundred meters.
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