Console Wars IX
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So, just a couple months left until the 9th generation is upon us and the pre-war buildup is fully underway. Nintendo, who managed to release two 8th gen consoles, will keep focusing on the Switch and making fun games while the big boys will be duking it out with another round of near-identical PC-type hardware with all the latest tech and buzzwords. Only instead of Jaguar + GCN 2/4 we're having an upgrade to Zen 2 + RDNA 2 for both teams.
This time around, both teams have decided to price their consoles identically with the top model costing the same for either team. Both also offer a cheaper model where Sony removes the disc drive and Microsoft removes the disc drive and cuts down the hardware by a lot.
In the blue corner we got Sony, presenting a curvy body. It also runs the CPU a lil bit slower and has less CUs in the GPU, but runs them faster. As well as having adaptable tech to shift power between the CPU and GPU depending on who needs them the most. 16GB of GDDR6 and a
storage solution because Sony asked devs what they wanted from a next-gen console and got "faster storage" so they went full overkill on that, going beyond regular PCIe 4.0x4 NVMe drives as seen by the odd harddrive size of 825GB. Still, for expansion they offer a regular M.2 slot although I guess we'll have to wait and see what drives will be fully PS5-compatible there as 825GB looks to be a bit small for going all digital.In the green corner we have Microsoft, offering what's on paper the more powerful device. They deliver a choice of two boxes: big black and small white. They also deliver shittier naming than the Wii/Wii U by salling this the Series X/S. Faster CPU and slower GPU with more CUs than the PS5. Memory runs 10GB faster and 6GB slower than the PS5. Using a regular PCIe 4.0x4 NVMe drive based off the specs, but expanding it requires a special "expansion card" which I guess is just a regular NVMe drive in a special enclosure, like the 360 harddrive being a regular 2.5" SATA drive in a special enclosure. The smaller Series S is however so nerfed that it on paper looks worse than the Xbox One X, except for the CPU. Although the focus for the Series S is 1080/1440p gaming rather than native 4K like its bigger brother.
We also have very different strategies for the release. Sony wants this to be true next-gen jump and has a strong showcase of PS5 exclusives for launch. Microsoft lost their big exclusive launch title due to delays and also wants a smoother transition, meaning the first games are to run on both X1 and XS as I understand it. Sony leaves that decision up to the devs. Sony promises a 99% backwards compatibility with PS4/PSVR for the PS5 and Microsoft has backwards compatibility back to the original Xbox for certified titles.
So, how will this generation go? Considering the minor differences I guess not much will change from the current gen and I expect the respective camps to keep their respective market share. I'll probably upgrade to both eventually, although leaning towards the PS5 first because of the stronger offering. The downside I find with PS is that I prefer the Xbox controller, but MS is also worse at giving me a reason to go with their console in addition to my PC The plus that MS has is the backwards compatibility all sorted, while on the Sony side I can't get rid of my PS3 yet. Decisions, decisions...
Anyone else looking at consoles, or are you full PC Gaming Master Race?
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Looking at the current situation: One of the larger online stores here lists a hype factor for the PS5 at over 600 while the XSX barely hits 200. Pretty much all stores have updated PS5 pricing to be the actual store price and added release date. Despite being revealed a week in advance, the XSX still don't got its release date and price updated in most places and the XSS isn't even listed.
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
The downside I find with PS is that I prefer the Xbox controller,
Isn't the shape of the DualSense more similar to the Xbox controllers than the DualShock? (BTW: If the rumor that the DualShock will only work with PS4 games is true, that's a real dick move by Sony.)
Anyways, I don't think the hardware even matters. As long as Sony is the only one willing to finance studios that make bold, story-driven single-player games instead of the usual open-world copycat RPG with microtransactions, there's no way around the PS5.
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@dfdub Sony has said that Dualshock will only work with PS4 games, yes. Guess the minor additions to Dualsense counts as mandatory for new games.
Meanwhile, I can use my X1 controllers with XSX games as the only change MS did to the Xbox controller was adding a Share button. So, yeah, just adds to the superiority of the Xbox controller. Think I can use a 360 controller in X1 games even.Bur yeah, better selection of singleplayer games makes PS a better option for me too, as well as better exclusives. And being more customer-friendly when it comes to storage upgrades. I have upgraded the harddrives of both my PS3 and PS4. Fully supported by Sony, quick and painless process. Any standard 2.5" drive works, up to the max supported size. Just need to reinstall the OS and games afterwards.
Microsoft does
enclosure for regular 2.5" drives for 360. No internal storage upgrade option for X1. And now another enclosure for what I assume is gonna be a regular M.2 drive. While Sony, who does have a storage solution with a special harddrive controller and everything exposes a regular M.2 connector in the PS5. Dunno how it's gonna work with it, if need specially certified drives to put PS5 games on or if any is gonna work.
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
full PC Gaming Master Race?
Largely this.
But if I were to end up going for a console, I'd probably be looking at the PS5 for now. Spec-wise the two consoles are close enough to each other, with the exception for the IO. And I think that the extra IO capabilities of the PS5 could make a fair difference, moreso than the slightly more powerful GPU perf of the xbox that the specs list.
I haven't kept tabs on announced titles either way, but if what @dfdub says w.r.t. to the single-player games, that would be another reason for going with a PS5.
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
shittier naming
That's pretty much been a staple of the industry since Sega stopped making consoles
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@hungrier Kinda sad when the best naming is from Sony. Sure, it's boring. But it's practical and easy to understand. Nintendo tries to make names that is tied to the console somehow at least. What Microsoft is doing I really don't know, because their naming is the most stupid by far.
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
Dunno how it's gonna work with it, if need specially certified drives to put PS5 games on or if any is gonna work.
That's certainly an interesting question. I hope they use the fast, internal SSD as a cache for the extended storage to maximize compatibility without the users having to move games back and forth to get the best performance.
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I would have bought a PS5 even if it only played Demon's Souls.
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@error PS5: 16GB GDDR6, running at 448GB/s.
Xbox: 16GB GDDR6: 10GB running at 560GB/s and 6GB running at 336GB/s.Why? Because... I dunno...
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
Anyone else looking at consoles, or are you full PC Gaming Master Race?
The only reason I own any console more recent than the PS2 is that it was a housewarming gift.
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My impression is that the XBox is being positioned as a cheap gaming PC rather than as a true console. Most (all?) XBox games are cross-released for PC.
Last gen XBox was marketed to be a media center product. I don't know
Microsoft is doing.Meanwhile, Nintendo has proven that it's not all about the numbers. They stay competitive with solid first-party games and cool functionality like a portable full console.
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
Sony asked devs what they wanted from a next-gen console and got "faster storage" so they went full overkill on that
Long load times can kill the fun of an experience, especially if they're frequent. Don't underestimate the impact this has.
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@error Yeah, it's not a bad thing. Just that even with PCIe 4.0 and presumably their own take on DirectStorage available Sony went "that's not fast enough" and made their own custom controller and got the latest compression algorithms to go with it too.
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@error said in Console Wars IX:
Long load times can kill the fun of an experience, especially if they're frequent. Don't underestimate the impact this has.
They can, but they're avoidable. GTA 3 and Vice City had load screens between the islands, and then in San Andreas they figured out how to do it seamlessly, and plenty of open world games since then haven't had any noticeable load times.
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@error said in Console Wars IX:
I would have bought a PS5 even if it only played Demon's Souls.
Coming to pc eventually which is why I held off. If the xbox cheaper edition supports network drives, usb hard drives amd retroarch I'll probably buy it immediately. That would make it the best mediabox for my needs.
I'll probably hold off and wait to see what amds apu line up is like though.
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@hungrier It's funny that you mention GTA, because the initial load time for GTA V is absolutely horrible on PS4.
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@error said in Console Wars IX:
@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
Sony asked devs what they wanted from a next-gen console and got "faster storage" so they went full overkill on that
Long load times can kill the fun of an experience, especially if they're frequent. Don't underestimate the impact this has.
And then the folks at Unreal went full-on "Andy giveth and Bill taketh away" with their new lighting technology.
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@error said in Console Wars IX:
It runs homebrew?
Eventually, if/when people figure out how to jailbreak and install custom firmware.
Do note, the sentence in question started with if:
@DogsB said in Console Wars IX:
If the xbox cheaper edition supports network drives, usb hard drives [and] retroarch
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
Anyone else looking at consoles, or are you full PC Gaming Master Race?
Considered getting a console, but decided to go full PCMR instead. For one simple reason - Half-Life: Alyx.
Also, I need a new PC anyway. My current laptop can die any day now (it's the one with fried GPU that was thoroughly ass-raped by Windows Update, if you remember my thread).
Currently waiting for AMD's October surprise.
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I'm a couch gamer through and through. I tried going PCMR about five years ago but kept needing to fiddle with mouse and keyboard too much, so I gave up and went back to consoles. My desktop PC's discrete GPU died, and I haven't bothered to replace yet it..
(Which is fine, I basically only play really old games, or visual novels without a Vita/Switch port.)The games that I wanted this fall all got delayed until next year, so I'll wait for Digital Foundry's reviews before deciding which platform to play games on next-gen.
That said, I'll still try to get an Xbox Series X right away. It can just replace my Xbox One X with no loss of functionality, so there's no reason to hold back. PS5 can wait until either it proves to be better for games, or there's an exclusive that I want.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Console Wars IX:
I'll wait for Digital Foundry's reviews
Careful - he's currently shilling for NVidia.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Console Wars IX:
an Xbox Series X right away. It can just replace my Xbox Series X
Yes, the XBox Series X does everything the XBox Series X can do.
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@error said in Console Wars IX:
@Unperverted-Vixen said in Console Wars IX:
an Xbox Series X right away. It can just replace my Xbox Series X
Yes, the XBox Series X does everything the XBox Series X can do.
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@error said in Console Wars IX:
Yes, the XBox Series X does everything the XBox Series X can do.
Dammit. Fixed.
@Gąska said in Console Wars IX:
@Unperverted-Vixen said in Console Wars IX:
I'll wait for Digital Foundry's reviews
Careful - he's currently shilling for NVidia.
Whether or not they are, I don't think that's going to make a difference in their PS5 vs. XSX benchmarks.
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@Unperverted-Vixen wait, you're waiting for console benchmarks? What for?
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@Gąska To find whether those cinematic fps are 4K checkerboard or 960p upscaled
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
Xbox: 16GB GDDR6: 10GB running at 560GB/s and 6GB running at 336GB/s.
Why? Because... I dunno...Ooh, that strikes me as the sort of thing that results from a hardware bug that couldn't be fixed and still hit their scheduled release date, probably at some deep architectural level. Just a wild guess, but it's not uncommon for memory to be segmented in big SoCs — some peripherals only have access to part of the memory. Some peripheral can't handle the memory bus running at full speed. But just a guess.
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@Atazhaia said in Console Wars IX:
@error PS5: 16GB GDDR6, running at 448GB/s.
Xbox: 16GB GDDR6: 10GB running at 560GB/s and 6GB running at 336GB/s.Why? Because... I dunno...
LOL, remember GTX 970 and its "4" GB?
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@error said in Console Wars IX:
Meanwhile, Nintendo has proven that it's not all about the numbers. They stay competitive with
solid first-party games and cool functionality like a portable full consolea fanatic cult of followers who will eat everything they're given and will always proclaim it the best thing ever no matter what.
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@Atazhaia I've been a primarily PC gamer for a while: the last couple game machines I purchased were the PS2, Wii, and DSi. Out of the PS4 and XBox One, I would have picked the PS4 because I like Sony's (timed-) exclusive games more than Microsoft's and don't play multiplayer. I may have bought a Switch before either, though, as I like Nintendo's first party games and gaming on the go. (I haven't gotten to do much of that in recent years, sadly.)
I'm not big on picking up a machine at launch; I'd rather wait for prices to come down a bit, any hardware bugs to get shaken out, and a larger library of games to be available. Maybe next year.
The PC continues to decline, but for now I'll stay here.
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@Parody said in Console Wars IX:
any hardware bugs to get shaken out
Historically, the first thing to be shaken out was backward compatibility with older games and hardware. Just saying.
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@Gąska said in Console Wars IX:
@Parody said in Console Wars IX:
any hardware bugs to get shaken out
Historically, the first thing to be shaken out was backward compatibility with older games and hardware. Just saying.
As I don't have a compatible library of games for any of the current consoles, I think I can afford to wait and see. At worst I pick up a used older machine if there are exclusives that I really want to play that don't make it to PC. (Note that this has not happened in two generations of consoles and handhelds.)
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@Gąska said in Console Wars IX:
@Unperverted-Vixen wait, you're waiting for console benchmarks? What for?
To know whether games will run better on PS5 or Xbox Series X, so I know which platform to buy non-exclusives on.
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@Unperverted-Vixen they're both capped at 30FPS. Devs have contractual obligations to look the same on both consoles. Not to mention they're the same freaking platform with nearly identical CPU and GPU. You will never perceive any difference while playing, and you'll be hard pressed to notice it even in side-by-side comparisons.
There's only one real difference between PS5 and XXX: one has haptic feedback triggers and the other does not. Very insignificant, but unlike performance difference, it's there. The other, even less significant thing is that the cheaper PS5 is on par with the more expensive one, while SSX is not - but considering you're willing to
flush your money awaypurchase both consoles, I believe you won't be buying those anyway.
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Once this pandemic is over I'll buy the PS5 to play the PS4 exclusives I've missed. I'm not interested in XBox.
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@Gąska said in Console Wars IX:
Devs have contractual obligations to look the same on both consoles.
They didn't last gen. You'd routinely have Xbox One running at 720p where PS4 was 1080p, or Xbox One X was 2160p and PS4 Pro was 1440p. And if they forced the lower-specced console to the same resolution, frame rate suffered on the lesser machine.
Not to mention they're the same freaking platform with nearly identical CPU and GPU.
Nearly identical CPU, yes (although the XSX one is clocked faster). GPUs are more different - XSX has 40% more CUs than PS5, but PS5 clocks them up to 20% faster.
Unlike last gen, where there was a clear spec winner for both halves of the generation, I could see this being more of a game-by-game difference this time around.
There's only one real difference between PS5 and XXX: one has haptic feedback triggers and the other does not. Very insignificant, but unlike performance difference, it's there.
That's not a difference; the Xbox controllers already have haptic feedback for the triggers. What is new on the PS5 controller is the ability for games to increase the resistance on the triggers, but (much like the controller speaker on PS4) I expect to see that functionality get zero use outside of platform-exclusive games.
The other, even less significant thing is that the cheaper PS5 is on par with the more expensive one, while SSX is not - but considering you're willing to
flush your money awaypurchase both consoles, I believe you won't be buying those anyway.You're right, I won't buy the lower-end models - because that would be flushing my money away. They have no disc drive, so I'd pay more for games going forward, and need to rebuy any last-gen games I wanted to keep playing.
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@Gąska said in Console Wars IX:
... while SSX is not ...
I wish we were getting a new version of SSX.
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@Parody alas, SSX is not.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Console Wars IX:
There's only one real difference between PS5 and XXX: one has haptic feedback triggers and the other does not. Very insignificant, but unlike performance difference, it's there.
That's not a difference; the Xbox controllers already have haptic feedback for the triggers.
They only started calling it haptic after Sony announced they have something XOXO doesn't. It's just better rumble. Nothing to brag about. PS5's haptics are actual innovation.
What is new on the PS5 controller is the ability for games to increase the resistance on the triggers, but (much like the controller speaker on PS4) I expect to see that functionality get zero use outside of platform-exclusive games.
Controller speaker was bullshit and provided worse gaming experience than not having one. That's why it wasn't used. Same with motion controls (in games not designed around motion controls right from the start). Haptics are unintrusive enough and cool enough that I'm pretty damn sure it'll be used by nearly every game, much like PS4's controller backlight which XBone also lacked.
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@Gąska said in Console Wars IX:
Controller speaker was bullshit and provided worse gaming experience than not having one. That's why it wasn't used. Same with motion controls (in games not designed around motion controls right from the start). Haptics are unintrusive enough and cool enough that I'm pretty damn sure it'll be used by nearly every game, much like PS4's controller backlight which XBone also lacked.
I don't think I trust your opinion on controllers then.
The light was worthless - it's not something you can ever see while holding it normally. I can only think of one game that used it for something other than "indicate whose controller it is in multiplayer".Whereas I thought the speaker was unintrusive. Many just used it for minor effects, but there were a few games like Transistor that used it for bigger impact.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Console Wars IX:
The light was worthless - it's not something you can ever see while holding it normally. I can only think of one game that used it for something other than "indicate whose controller it is in multiplayer".
Well, I guess it depends whether you had DS4 v1 or v2. I've had v2 - with the "front" "back" light (a little sliver on the touchpad that was lit with the same color as the backlight). Not useful in the gameplay sense, but it was well within peripheral vision and was a nice touch. I've had one DS4 v1 too, and yes, the backlight was useless there.
Whereas I thought the speaker was unintrusive. Many just used it for minor effects, but there were a few games like Transistor that used it for bigger impact.
I've seen it used only in one game (Mad Max reload sound) and the sound quality alone made me want to puke - and I'm no audiophile, mind you (I never owned any headphones worth more than $40). I'm so, so glad I've never heard it anywhere else.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Console Wars IX:
The light was worthless - it's not something you can ever see while holding it normally.
You must not play in the dark much. When it's the only light source it can illuminate the room. Which I think was used for best effect in spoopy games. I also liked pulsing red for low HP indicator.
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PONG
