So this might happen if one dares to use linux

Zecc

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@AyGeePlus said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

What did you expect to happen when you dragged a webpage onto your desktop?

A full copy packed up in a neat little file, same as if I pressed Ctrl-s and navigated to the desktop folder and pressed Enter.

Yes, but only if you "drag a web page". If the action is "drag a URL", then I expect it to create a shortcut.

How do you tell one from another? Well, I'd argue that dragging the text from the address bar is dragging the URL, while dragging the little icon is as close as it gets to dragging the web page.

I like that dragging the icon will create a shortcut though. If I want to save a webpage I'll hit Ctrl+S.

Atazhaia

@Vixen said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

save yourself the annoyance and just go full *nix or full OSX or full Windows

And that's why I have three computers! One Windows, one macOS and one Linux!

anonymous234

@TimeBandit said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

please show me the trouser-leg where cat is a GUI-tool

Right-click the link file, then "Open with" and select a text editor.

CLOSED_WOMM

@ben_lubar said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@AyGeePlus said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

Are you certain it's doing this? Text editors don't usually optimize for syntax highlighting html. That might be the source of the lag, not network traffic.

compare <filenameblah.DESKTOP> with <content_of_editor>
-> the editor has to fetch this from <website> and a SSD usually is faster than <website>

what super-weird text editor are you using that executes files you open?

Why are all of you questioning the premise of the post? He tried opening it in the text editor in Linux Mint. It happened. Unless he changed something without telling us or just made up the story for the lulz, that's something that Linux Mint does.

Carnage

@anonymous234 said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@TimeBandit said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

please show me the trouser-leg where cat is a GUI-tool

Right-click the link file, then "Open with" and select a text editor.

CLOSED_WOMM

@ben_lubar said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@AyGeePlus said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

Are you certain it's doing this? Text editors don't usually optimize for syntax highlighting html. That might be the source of the lag, not network traffic.

compare <filenameblah.DESKTOP> with <content_of_editor>
-> the editor has to fetch this from <website> and a SSD usually is faster than <website>

what super-weird text editor are you using that executes files you open?

Why are all of you questioning the premise of the post? He tried opening it in the text editor in Linux Mint. It happened. Unless he changed something without telling us or just made up the story for the lulz, that's something that Linux Mint does.

I went ahead and duplicated his results, I'm running Mint some version or other.
I dragged and dropped this very thread to my home folder.
This is what the file actually contains:

ulvhamne@sneakybits ~ $ cat "So this might happen if one dares to use linux - What the Daily WTF?.desktop"
[Desktop Entry]
Encoding=UTF-8
Name=Link to So this might happen if one dares to use linux - What the Daily WTF?
Type=Link
URL=https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/26928/so-this-might-happen-if-one-dares-to-use-linux?page=1
Icon=text-html

and this is what xed (the default text editor) opened:

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/.../ SNIPPY HUGE BLOB OF HTML

And here's a screenshot as well:

So it works just as he described. And it indeed is of a text editor to do a lookup like this on a text file, imo.

anonymous234

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

And it indeed is of a text editor to do a lookup like this on a text file, imo

It's almost certainly done by the file manager or the GTK+ file access API.

There is a weird mixing of layers in Linux desktop systems. Linux has modular file systems, soft links, and hard links. It has FUSE which allows "virtual" file systems to be implemented very easily, and they can be mounted anywhere in the, er, file system.

Then on top of that, the GUI libraries also provide an interface to create and access "virtual files" in the same way, and "desktop links" (those [Desktop Entry] text files). The result is that a file can behave differently depending on what program you use to open it.

Windows can also fetch URLs for you by the way, but it's a bit more explicit (and not discoverable). You have to paste it where the filename goes in the application's "open file" dialog.

PleegWat

@anonymous234 I'm getting the same and I think the file manager is involved. Clicking gives the browser, which makes sense. Using open with gedit, I get HTML data and a file name of 54. Attempting to open with gvim via the context menu doesn't work at all, doing it via open with gets me a blank document. Also the file manager displays it as Link to So this might happen if one dares to use linux - What the daily WTF?, but the actual filesystem object is called So this might happen if one dares to use linux - What the daily WTF?.desktop.

boomzilla

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@wft said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

the fucking forest

I would like to see a fucking forest at some point...

Meh...seems like that would be hell on my allergies.

boomzilla

@anonymous234 said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@TimeBandit said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

please show me the trouser-leg where cat is a GUI-tool

Right-click the link file, then "Open with" and select a text editor.

CLOSED_WOMM

@ben_lubar said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@AyGeePlus said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

Are you certain it's doing this? Text editors don't usually optimize for syntax highlighting html. That might be the source of the lag, not network traffic.

compare <filenameblah.DESKTOP> with <content_of_editor>
-> the editor has to fetch this from <website> and a SSD usually is faster than <website>

what super-weird text editor are you using that executes files you open?

Why are all of you questioning the premise of the post? He tried opening it in the text editor in Linux Mint. It happened. Unless he changed something without telling us or just made up the story for the lulz, that's something that Linux Mint does.

No one there was questioning the premise. They were asking what software did that stuff.

jinpa

@TimeBandit said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

sure, let's fire up a browser just to get the URL it's pointing to

You mean, you don't always have a browser opened to WTDWTF?

Medinoc

I just tested with Windows's .lnk shortcut files, and the result is the same, courtesy of Windows Explorer:

Right-clicking a shortcut to a directory, or a file with NoOpenWith registry value (such as an executable), doesn't even give you the "Open With..." option to try and open with a text editor. You still get "Send To..." though, which doesn't follow shortcuts.
Right-clicking a shortcut to a file gives you "Open With...", but opens the pointed file (I've tested with a program of mine, it directly receives the target path).
Notepad++'s "Edit with Notepad++" extension also opens the target.
"Send To..." however, gives the program a path to the shortcut itself. So to look at the entrails of just any file, even if it's a shortcut, you can add a shortcut to your favorite text/hex/whatever editor in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\SendTo.
"Properties" will show you the target path, unless it's one of those "special" Windows Installer shortcuts.

Now for .url "internet shortcut" files:

Even with shift-right-click, I don't get a "Open With..." to check their entrails. This despite not having the NoOpenWith value (it does however have NeverShowExt and IsShortcut, as well as the FTA_Show bit in EditFlags; and I just found its shell\Open key contains a value named LegacyDisable whose meaning eludes me, but whose name is promising -- Edit: After checking this, I guess the Open I see in the context menu is actually provided by the context menu handler, and disabling the "open" verb removes "open with" as well)
No Notepad++ either.
"Properties" will show you the target URL.
Good news is, it still has "Send To", which doesn't follow them either, so you can look at their entrails. And this time, they're actually text files:

[{000214A0-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}]
Prop3=19,2
[InternetShortcut]
IDList=
URL=http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/p/?LinkId=255142
IconIndex=0
IconFile=%ProgramFiles%\Internet Explorer\Images\bing.ico

In fact, they're not that different from Linux's .desktop files...

And regarding those, one question remains: Who does the actual fetching? It's possible the file explorer fetches the URL to a temporary file, and invokes the program on this, but it's more probable that it passes the URL as argument to the text editor, and the text editor fetches. This too could be easy to test: Just make your own program, that displays its arguments in a message box. And if your Linux's message boxes allow selecting & copying the text, then problem solved, you now have your GUI for retrieving the shortcut's URL.

PleegWat

@Medinoc said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

Who does the actual fetching?

I have no clue. A test application isn't giving me any input - no command line arguments, nothing on stdin, and nothing meaningful in the environment as far as I can tell.

Medinoc

So it's sent via whatever IPC ~~linux~~ this desktop environment uses in place of IDropTarget, I guess.

hungrier

@PleegWat said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@anonymous234 I'm getting the same and I think the file manager is involved. Clicking gives the browser, which makes sense. Using open with gedit, I get HTML data and a file name of 54. Attempting to open with gvim via the context menu doesn't work at all, doing it via open with gets me a blank document. Also the file manager displays it as Link to So this might happen if one dares to use linux - What the daily WTF?, but the actual filesystem object is called So this might happen if one dares to use linux - What the daily WTF?.desktop.

The filename has a question mark in it, which more likely than not is causing its own special set of problems.

Filed under: Like case sensitivity, Linux's filename permissiveness was a mistake

LaoC

@aitap said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

this is what got created from aforementioned drag-n-drop via GUI:

I tried to do the same in Xfce, but Thunar refused to create the .desktop file because Failed to change directory to file:///home/me: No such file or directory .

WOMM
No idea why Xfce gives it a folder icon by default but OK. It even warns you about potentially opening untrusted shit when you click it later.

@iKnowItsLame said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

In which trouser-leg of the multiverse is this (e.g. actually firing a https-GET and fetching the output) the expected behavior?

I'm not sure, but you might get the desired behaviour by disabling the executable bit on the .desktop file (yeah, it doesn't mean what it actually means, but file managers may treat .desktop files slightly differently depending on whether the executable bit is set ).

Yup, Xfdesktop does, too. If you set +x, it seems to treats the link as trusted.

TwelveBaud

This post is deleted!

TimeBandit

@hungrier said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

The filename has a question mark in it, which more likely than not is causing its own special set of problems.

It's not causing any problem here.

Like case sensitivity, Linux's filename permissiveness was a mistake

Why?

hungrier

@TimeBandit All the stuff from @PleegWat's post that I quoted may not be related to having a special character in the filename, but it just as easily could be caused by a patchwork of tools trying to work together, some of which may not be careful enough in guarding against weird filenames.

Fixing Unix/Linux/POSIX Filenames: Control Characters (such as Newline), Leading Dashes, and Other Problems

iKnowItsLame

so that caused some stir, including @Medinoc going hardcore on windows

usually shenanigans at this level do not even cause a blip but yesterday was ...special..., that shite broke the donkey's back and here we are.

To sum it up:
-) Bookmarks: don't like them 'cos organizing them is way too much hassle for these intents; Bookmarks are for daily-drivers only here.

-) DualBoot is shite (last not least: can't reboot right now because of but need to access <file> on the other boot-option; while this works with running Linux -> access Windows-files, the other way not so much; I do know that it is possible but that will add even more things that can break)

-) I'm not hellbent on GUI (at least I was able to fire up a terminal and use cat) but allow me to hate the let's-dumb-it-down plus "I do know what you want and will do this my way, fuck you"-
trend and sometimes one has to vent...

Management summary:
still undecided.
-> the dude from yesterday wants to nuke everything and go the Win10-only route
-> me as of today (the one holding the right now) doesn't want to give up "freedom to be told that he is an ass" for "freedom to be told that it's my own fault 'cos Windows is shite(tm)".

Anyways: the -Forum delivered opinions to ponder, THANKYOU.
/allow me to opine that it would be even better if there was an interface to SSDS

HardwareGeek

@boomzilla said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@wft said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

the fucking forest

I would like to see a fucking forest at some point...

Meh...seems like that would be hell on my allergies.

That depends on what's in the forest. I'd rather have a forest of copulating conifers than a field of rutting ragweed.

boomzilla

@HardwareGeek said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@boomzilla said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@wft said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

the fucking forest

I would like to see a fucking forest at some point...

Meh...seems like that would be hell on my allergies.

That depends on what's in the forest. I'd rather have a forest of copulating conifers than a field of rutting ragweed.

For the purposes of the joke, let's assume it's some of these:

Michael Kerr / May 4, 2012

List of Top Pollen Offenders | Healthline

Hundreds of species of plants release their pollen into the air every year, causing allergic reactions in many people. Learn how to avoid these triggers.

HardwareGeek

@boomzilla TIL there are some conifers (certain cedars and junipers) that can be potent allergens. Fortunately, the pines and redwoods that are prevalent in the areas I've lived most of my life, though they may create so much pollen that they leave a substantial layer of pollen on everything in the area, are not allergens.

dcon

Back to the so-this-might-happen-if-one-dares-to-use-linux

So today I discovered that somehow I had docker installed both via apt and snap. How? Because today, after months of being ok, it started spamming syslog. How did I find out? Well, really bad things happen when / runs out of space. Took all morning to get the system back to normal. (uninstalled the snap version)

syslog was rolled at midnight. By 9a, it was about 380GB - I got back enough working space by deleting syslog.1 that I was able to limp along until sudo snap remove docker finished.

djls45

@Medinoc Furthermore, dragging a .url file onto a text editor will display the contents of that file:

Whereas dragging a .lnk file onto a text editor will open the target file:

hungrier

@HardwareGeek Rutting Ragweed is a pretty good band name

ben_lubar

@djls45 said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

dragging

That's not what the "open in other program" option does, and I'd imagine it'd work perfectly fine in this text editor as the text editor doesn't do any special handling at all for desktop files.

Medinoc

@djls45 Must be either something notepad2 does, or something Windows Explorer does for IDropTarget-supporting programs only, because when I drag the shortcut to my (non-IDropTarget-supporting) test program*, it clearly tells me it received the .lnk file on its command line.

*This test program is actually a program to show the contents of files of several formats (text files, GDI+-supported images, executables etc., including shortcuts), and I've programmed it to handle shortcuts by showing me a dialog box that tells me it's a shortcut, tells me its target path, and asks me whether I want to open the shortcut itself or the target.

Edit: D'oh! By "drag onto text editor" I initially took that as "drag onto the EXE file in Windows Explorer", instead of "drag onto the open window". Of course the latter will only work if the editor supports IDropTarget... (facepalm)
Good news is, my test program also also has "drop area" that supports IDropTarget... And when I drop the shortcut on it, it sees a .lnk file (both in the FileGroupDescriptorW and in the HDROP), confirming that it's indeed notepad2 that follows the shortcut.

Gurth

@Atazhaia said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Vixen said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

save yourself the annoyance and just go full *nix or full OSX or full Windows

And that's why I have three computers! One Windows, one macOS and one Linux!

And that's why I have three computers! One Windows, one macOS, one Linux, and one AmigaOS!

Four! And that's why I have four computers! One Windows, one macOS, one Linux, one AmigaOS, and one TempleOS!

Five! And that's why … I’ll come in again, shall I?

Atazhaia

@Gurth Well, I also have two hand computers, one running Android and the other iPadOS. I also have a sixth computer running two versions of Windows side-by-side for... reasons. And several computers running various modified BSDs.

PleegWat

@Atazhaia And don't forget routers and NAS devices.

TimeBandit

@PleegWat and "Smart" TVs

hungrier

@TimeBandit And lightbulbs, refrigerators, ~~always-on audio recording corporate surveillance devices~~digital assistants, watches, toilets, juice presses...

wft

@aitap said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

I'm not sure, but you might get the desired behaviour by disabling the executable bit on the .desktop file (yeah, it doesn't mean what it actually means, but file managers may treat .desktop files slightly differently depending on whether the executable bit is set ).

I'm afraid not. The .desktop files are what you get if a freedesktop.org committee or whoever comes with that shit get together and have a real bad trip while hung over. Most GUI file managers will just gleefully run xdg-open on them, and let them devour your system or whatever, when all you wanted was open a text editor with their contents. Or vice versa: It looks like a thing you want to run, icon and all, but when you do, you get a text editor open with its contents.

While it has always been a bad idea to, say, copy a bunch of .lnk files onto floppies and carry them to another machine, .desktop files may be much more powerful and dangerous. A curious thing is, that semantics common to GNOME/KDE/XFCE make them less than the .lnk files on Windows, essentially program launchers.

dkf

@wft said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

The .desktop files are what you get if a freedesktop.org committee or whoever comes with that shit get together and have a real bad trip while hung over.

Situation Normal for that crowd.

aitap

@wft said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

Or vice versa: It looks like a thing you want to run, icon and all, but when you do, you get a text editor open with its contents.

Exactly. Some years ago I managed to break something in the MIME type registry on one of my PCs in a way that caused xdg-open file.desktop to do anything except launch it. I don't remember how or even if I managed to repair it.

Apparently, I'm not the only person to suffer from that or similar problems, since this is what Tor Browser's start-tor-browser.desktop (executable bit set) begins with:

#!/usr/bin/env ./Browser/execdesktop

Browser/execdesktop is a shell script that uses a grep | tail | sed | sed pipeline to extract the command to launch from a custom .desktop attribute. Needless to say, this only works if you cd to the directory containing start-tor-browser.desktop first.

Somehow, Tor Browser developers seemingly had valid reasons to prefer this fuckery to the standard way of dealing with .desktop files!

wft

@aitap Or they are clueless. Happens to the best of us too.

Tsaukpaetra

Status: Just a gentle reminder that ponies are fucking everywhere

Ubuntu on Twitter

Carnage

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

ponies are fucking everywhere

that sounds NSFW.

Tsaukpaetra

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

ponies are fucking everywhere

that sounds NSFW.

.... You have no idea.....

Filed under No-nut November

djls45

@Gurth said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

and one TempleOS

You're actually running that?!

pie_flavor

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

Status: Just a gentle reminder that ponies are fucking everywhere

Ubuntu on Twitter

Vixen

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

ponies are fucking everywhere

that sounds NSFW.

and this is a problem because?

PleegWat

@Vixen said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

ponies are fucking everywhere

that sounds NSFW.

and this is a problem because?

Some of us read this forum at work?

TimeBandit

@PleegWat said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

~~Some~~ Most of us read this forum at work?

FTFY

Notice how there is a lot less activity here in the weekend

Tsaukpaetra

@PleegWat said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Vixen said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

ponies are fucking everywhere

that sounds NSFW.

and this is a problem because?

Some of us read this forum at work?

I've read this forum primarily at work... 😉

Carnage

@Vixen said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

ponies are fucking everywhere

that sounds NSFW.

and this is a problem because?

I don't know why you think it's a problem.

Vixen

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Vixen said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Carnage said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

@Tsaukpaetra said in So this might happen if one dares to use linux:

ponies are fucking everywhere

that sounds NSFW.

and this is a problem because?

I don't know why you think it's a problem.

because i was confused most likely.