Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game
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@hungrier at first that didn’t sound quite that bad, so I was just about to write "that’s not as bad as expected, making me almost fear you’re not being sarcastic".
But then...
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@Benjamin-Hall Yes, those are all valid points but they're intended to get basic concepts across and for younger audiences. Playtime is important for children and I'm not seeing any big problems with using those to get people interested in the "real" stuff.
Don't overdo it, don't expect it to magically solve everything and know when to use it and when not.
In short: Moderation.
Probably holds true for quite a number of things.
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@Rhywden basically agreed. My caution is based on "games" being pushed as "the next big trend in education", as a silver bullet. In their place, they're fine.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@Zecc said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
"let the data flow through you"
Unf. So much better than letting hate flow through you!
@error_bot gif the spice must flow
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Giphy said in https://giphy.com/gifs/1fhj2QsTuLVnjemSfx :
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@hungrier said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
In fact, do you realize that the game itself is made by adults for 8yos?
If you think that's shocking, wait 'til you hear who
writesmakes children's books
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Let me just throw this in to the basket of "games that attempted to teach programming".
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@error said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@Zecc said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
"let the data flow through you"
Unf. So much better than letting hate flow through you!
@error_bot gif the spice must flow
Don't cross the streams.
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@boomzilla said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Now do you want to promote a natural language by encouraging people to speak basic "subject-verb-object" gibberish to everyone as a publicity stunt? That'd be laughable. Hence why Scratch as learning tool is mostly a scam: I don't want to learn a new language by doing that. Give me the real shit instead!
What is "real shit" though? As a kid, this was pretty awesome:
10 PRINT "HELLO WORLD" 20 GOTO 10
Hey, look! I made the computer do something! If you really are new then you'll be too overwhelmed by the tools to actually do much "real shit." You need an easy environment where you can make things happen and then make changes to predictably get different results.
That's pretty much where I started, except it wasn't
HELLO WORLD
, it was[REDACTED] IS AN IDIOT
where[REDACTED]
was the name of the kid in my class who was even more socially awkward than I was.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
I'm also a living counter-example to this,
People are different. Not everyone learns the same way you do.
since my mind has already been trained to think
[citation needed]
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You sound like an old boomer there.
I resemble that remark. Although actually I'm pretty young for a boomer; I was born at the tail end of the baby boom, but that still makes me .
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
there are media coverage talking about the exact point
Even if the media said that[citation needed], the media says many stupid, wrong things about tech they don't understand.
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@HardwareGeek said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
there are media coverage talking about the exact point
Even if the media said that[citation needed], the media says many stupid, wrong things
about tech they don't understand.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
it doesn't make 10-12yo students feel more obligated at programming.
Why would you want to make them feel obligated at all? Do we want to make programming slaves who are required to program whether they want to or not? (I'm not sure I want to know the answer to that question.) And what does that have to do with a game for 8 year olds?
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
I doubt anyone except the research groups actually document the feedback they get
Um, who else would document it?
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@HardwareGeek said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
That's pretty much where I started, except it wasn't HELLO WORLD, it was [REDACTED] IS AN IDIOT where [REDACTED] was the name of the kid in my class who was even more socially awkward than I was.
Oh, the kid you bullied was socially awkward? You don't say.
Filed under: I wonder how he got that way.
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@error Even within the bullied social outcast group, we had our own hierarchy of outcast-ness. It's not something to be proud of, but it's no secret that those who are bullied act as bullies toward those lower than themselves to feel less bad about the abuse they receive.
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@_P_ said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Maybe it's not quite as paradigmy as Alice3 or Human Resource Machine
Human Resource Machine is highly assembly in nature, which is also not what you'd want to throw at people. (Not to mention the amount of shortcuts required to achieve the challenges.) It's basically a puzzle game and nothing else.
DID SOMEONE SAY ALICE3?
DID SOMEONE SAY TEN YEAR OLD VIDEO OF ALICE3?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEEP7XwoqD8
oh, nobody said that second one?
sorry
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@dkf said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
graphical programming languages are orders of magnitude more complex to support than text (at least with the state of general tooling).
This. UE4's Blueprints are powerful, but so... ugh. In very many ways...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@dkf said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
graphical programming languages are orders of magnitude more complex to support than text (at least with the state of general tooling).
This. UE4's Blueprints are powerful, but so... ugh. In very many ways...
Since they're called blueprints, do they generate code that you could just write manually instead, or are they interpreted at runtime?
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@topspin said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@dkf said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
graphical programming languages are orders of magnitude more complex to support than text (at least with the state of general tooling).
This. UE4's Blueprints are powerful, but so... ugh. In very many ways...
Since they're called blueprints, do they generate code that you could just write manually instead, or are they interpreted at runtime?
I believe they are stripped down to a crude form of bytecode during cooking that then gets interpreted during run-time, yes.
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@levicki said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
There should be a law against this.
Feel free to draft one up and send it to your local congress
manrepresentative.
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@levicki said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You have to be blind not to see that it's meant as a means of future customer engagement tactics. If the child didn't already have an UPlay account now it will. If it didn't have their spyware launcher on their PC, now it will. And of course, it will now be able to see all the game offers on the launcher's front page every time it opens it to "learn programming". When that child grows up, guess which game store it will be using?
Assuming the source of the "spyware" claim is your ass, this seems like a perfectly fair trade to me. You both get value from the deal.
Is it any worse than McDonald's pouring advertising money into Saturday morning cartoon airtime?
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@error said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Is it any worse than McDonald's pouring advertising money into Saturday morning cartoon airtime?
:@levicki: that should be illegal too!
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@levicki said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
If the child didn't already have an UPlay account now it will. If it didn't have their spyware launcher on their PC, now it will.
Actual spyware or "OMG A DIFFERENT LAUNCHER!!!11eleventy" nonsense?
@levicki said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
And of course, it will now be able to see all the game offers on the launcher's front page every time it opens it to "learn programming".
Ignoring that launching from a shortcut would skip the front page - so?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@dkf said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
graphical programming languages are orders of magnitude more complex to support than text (at least with the state of general tooling).
This. UE4's Blueprints are powerful, but so... ugh. In very many ways...
They're not especially powerful either. Compare with AVS/Express for an example of something that adds real value with its GUI. (It runs all the components in parallel, and that is a paradigm that works more easily with a graphical language.)
No idea if that's still going, BTW, but it was quite influential on how I wrote GUIs for workflow languages.
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@levicki said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
For people with short memory -- UPlay rootkit.
Oh cool, something from 7 years ago that got patched.
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@loopback0 I want to come up with a name for bullshit like that, but it's hard to find a good obvious example. The Double Fine gambit, maybe?
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
@loopback0 I want to come up with a name for bullshit like that, but it's hard to find a good obvious example. The Double Fine gambit, maybe?
A bad reputation? Broken trust?
It's not exactly a fallacy.
Filed under: Fool me twice, can't get fooled again.
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@error Sure it is. There's a difference between the relationship of, say, C and buffer overflows, and the relationship of Ubisoft and rootkits. The first reputation is deserved - things written in C pull this shit repeatedly. Ubisoft has done their thing once, in a blunder that's got nothing to do with them in particular, in a way that showed no sign of them ever doing that again. Broken trust is definitely a thing - the thing I want to name is using it in a way that definitely doesn't apply. Thus, the Double Fine gambit, named after people's tendency to assume every game Double Fine releases is unfinished broken garbage after one single failure with Spacebase DF-9.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
Thus, the Double Fine gambit, named after people's tendency to assume
everyany game Double Fine releases isunfinished broken garbageworth your time after one singlefailure with Spacebase DF-9Psychonauts.
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@pie_flavor said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
the thing I want to name is using it in a way that definitely doesn't apply.
You can call it fuck horser.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Newest Scratch scam: Ubisoft release a Scratch "learn coding" game:
You can call it
fuck horserr.Edit: fucking a horse is also called having a sexual
intercoursediscourse with the horse. Get it?
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