Windows Subsystem for Linux
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@Zenith said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Isn't the package manager part of the OS though? Would that even carry over to a compatibility layer on Windows?
Once you install Debian or Ubuntu, you can use apt to install things
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@Carnage said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Android Studio is based on IntelliJ, not eclipse.
It was based on Eclipse before
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@TimeBandit said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@Carnage said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Android Studio is based on IntelliJ, not eclipse.
It was based on Eclipse before
Wasn't the swap about 6 years ago now?
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@Carnage possibly.
Times fly too fast
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@Carnage said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@TimeBandit said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@Carnage said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Android Studio is based on IntelliJ, not eclipse.
It was based on Eclipse before
Wasn't the swap about 6 years ago now?
Well, we're talking about a guy who's still using VS 2008 and SQL 2000, so that's waaaaay too modern to enter the discussion.
...says the guy still using g++ from 2010.
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@Gąska That's the opposite of what I'd usually accuse Gnome of, but ok, still kinda stupid.
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
X11's primary selection
That was one of the most annoying things about X11 in my experience, at least when it comes to actually using it (getting it configured for my video card and screen was decidedly more annoying, but only needed to be done once or twice). I regularly select text that I don’t want to copy, and occasionally select text by accident, both of which would immediately overwrite the thing I had earlier copied to the clipboard on purpose.
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@Gurth said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
I regularly select text that I don’t want to copy, and occasionally select text by accident, both of which would immediately overwrite the thing I had earlier copied to the clipboard on purpose.
They should be separate things. They are for me.
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@boomzilla Maybe they are now, but back when I was a (mostly) full-time Linux user (that would be about 15 years ago), selecting any text whatsoever also copied that to the clipboard automatically.
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Has anyone used that stuff much? Is it any good?
Looks like I need to start running Windows or Mac at work and I'm wondering which I'd prefer / would be least bad.
Like most Microsoft interactions with Open Source, it's great until you find exactly one thing that it doesn't support that you really need.
In my case, it was something related to libTAS's snapshot feature, so probably nothing you'd have to deal with.
Also, Microsoft released their new terminal emulator: https://github.com/microsoft/Terminal
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@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
libTAS's
Hmm....what's that...https://github.com/clementgallet/libTAS..."GNU/Linux software to give TAS tools to games"
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
libTAS's
Hmm....what's that...https://github.com/clementgallet/libTAS..."GNU/Linux software to give TAS tools to games"
people seem to like what I was trying to do with it
[TAS] Undertale + Deltarune 2-games-1-controller Tool Assisted Speedrun – 1:21:50
— Ben Lubar
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@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
people seem to like what I was trying to do with it
At least you didn't explicitly explain
TAS stands for. That would have been totally out of character. Thanks.
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
people seem to like what I was trying to do with it
At least you didn't explicitly explain
TAS stands for. That would have been totally out of character. Thanks.libTAS is something that only people who already know what TAS means would ever care about
If you want to see how silly tool assisted speedruns can be, check this out:
TASBot plays Brain Age by micro500, xy2_ in 20:06 - Awesome Games Done Quick 2016 - Part 154 – 36:41
— Games Done Quick
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@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
libTAS is something that only people who already know what TAS means would ever care about
But people who don't know what TAS is won't know that until they know what TAS is. I, for one, now know that I don't care about TAS.
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@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
ibTAS is something that only people who already know what TAS means would ever care about
Thanks for not explaining what it is.
If you want to see how silly tool assisted speedruns can be, check this out:
From this, I figured TAS means Tool Assisted Speedruns.
Thanks for nothing
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@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
libTAS is something that only people who already know what TAS means would ever care about
I knew what TAS meant and I still didn't care.
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@Zenith said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
is there some killer app that's Linux exclusive that everybody but me knows about?
For me, as a hardware engineer, every electronic design program ever. (Not quite ever — back in the day, I used software that ran on VMS, SysV, BSD, SunOS, Solaris — but for the last 20+ years, Linux.) Some of it runs on Windows, too, but nobody uses it. I know a bunch of hardware (Xbox, Hololens) people at MS, and even they do their chip design on Linux.
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@HardwareGeek said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
For me, as a hardware engineer, every electronic design program ever.
Correction: every integrated circuit design program (because as you imply, they all used to require UNIX workstations to run).
Design programs for PCBs, FPGAs, microcontrollers, etc. are also available on Windows, or even Windows-only ; I use Windows almost exclusively for my job. The only time I needed Linux was to test Bluetooth 4 stuff: it would have required a Windows >=8 licence, and there's no way I was gonna give money to MS for that OS.
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
+ ᾮ
Interesting combination of diacritics. The psili (smooth breathing mark — looks like an apostrophe) occurs at the beginning of words, and the ypogegrammeni (iota subscript) is nearly always seen at the end of a word; when not at the end of a word, it is often written as a prosgegrammeni (adscript, a small or full-size iota following the main vowel) especially when capitalized. (In fact, Unicode uses term prosgegrammeni when it is precomposed with a capital letter, although the glyph may display either the subscript or adscript, depending on the font. It's also a place Unicode screwed up upper/lower case transformation. A lowercase vowel with subscript is transformed to a capital vowel+capital iota, which is not then transformed back into the subscripted lowercase vowel, but into the lowercase vowel+lowercase iota.) I think it's also a bit uncommon to see if a perispomeni (tilde accent, originally indicated a rising and falling pitch accent on a syllable containing a long vowel or diphthong) at the beginning of a word.
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@Zenith said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
is there some killer app that's Linux exclusive that everybody but me knows about?
As a developer, I find Linux a friendlier development environment. The only reason I have Windows installed on my machine is for games, I do most real tasks on virtual machines.
By this I mean that Windows development requires Microsoft tools, basically, and their tools aren't very friendly for automation. Also getting dependencies to build in Windows tends to be more painful, you need them to include solution files for the right version of vs (compared to gcc or clang that use compatible command line arguments, so a makefile written 10 years ago will still build today).
And since they tie the language version to the toolset version, you need multiple installs of vs if you need to link with things written in different times. And again, automating building a project that requires building various other projects is a pain, you need to get everything into a single solution instead of being able to easily work with multiple solutions. A single instance of vs can't even open more than one solution at a time.
The Linux tools can be more primitive, but they integrate into your workflow more easily. And well, they're free, so you also avoid license fees if you need something that's not available in community versions of the idea.
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
At least you didn't explicitly explain
TAS stands for.
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@Kian most of that isn't true, though. C++ used to be incompatible sometimes, so you might have to install multiple ides if you need to compile something for vc6 and also something newer, but barring that they tend to ship automatable tools... And automation continues to be one of their biggest goals as a company, with more options every year.
Their goal now seems to be to get to .Net 5 by late next year, and have their entire dev stack work on command line on any OS, with even their universal windows apps running on the cross platform stuff.
It's almost a different company now.
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@Zenith said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
The only feature I really miss from later versions of SQL is the PIVOT keyword. That was really cool. Never see it used though.
I've used it! In a couple places even...
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@ben_lubar Did you come up with / programmed that 2-games-1-controller UI yourself or was it just something you used? Looks pretty cool.
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@HardwareGeek said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
+ ᾮ
Interesting combination of diacritics. The psili (smooth breathing mark — looks like an apostrophe) occurs at the beginning of words, and the ypogegrammeni (iota subscript) is nearly always seen at the end of a word; when not at the end of a word, it is often written as a prosgegrammeni (adscript, a small or full-size iota following the main vowel) especially when capitalized. (In fact, Unicode uses term prosgegrammeni when it is precomposed with a capital letter, although the glyph may display either the subscript or adscript, depending on the font. It's also a place Unicode screwed up upper/lower case transformation. A lowercase vowel with subscript is transformed to a capital vowel+capital iota, which is not then transformed back into the subscripted lowercase vowel, but into the lowercase vowel+lowercase iota.) I think it's also a bit uncommon to see if a perispomeni (tilde accent, originally indicated a rising and falling pitch accent on a syllable containing a long vowel or diphthong) at the beginning of a word.
My brain fell out halfway through your post and then I just glazed over the rest.
This must be what I sound to non-technical people.Filed under: it's all Greek to me.
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@HardwareGeek said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
"+ ᾮ"Interesting combination of diacritics. The psili (smooth breathing mark — looks like an apostrophe) occurs at the beginning of words, and the ypogegrammeni (iota subscript) is nearly always seen at the end of a word; when not at the end of a word, it is often written as a prosgegrammeni (adscript, a small or full-size iota following the main vowel) especially when capitalized. (In fact, Unicode uses term prosgegrammeni when it is precomposed with a capital letter, although the glyph may display either the subscript or adscript, depending on the font. It's also a place Unicode screwed up upper/lower case transformation. A lowercase vowel with subscript is transformed to a capital vowel+capital iota, which is not then transformed back into the subscripted lowercase vowel, but into the lowercase vowel+lowercase iota.) I think it's also a bit uncommon to see if a perispomeni (tilde accent, originally indicated a rising and falling pitch accent on a syllable containing a long vowel or diphthong) at the beginning of a word.
To me it looks like there's some dirt on my monitor.
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@Magus said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Their goal now seems to be to get to .Net 5 by late next year, and have their entire dev stack work on command line on any OS, with even their universal windows apps running on the cross platform stuff.
IOW, they're slowly catching up to OpenSource tools from 20 years ago
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@JBert said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
it might turn on case-sensitive support for any directories which were created by WSL
TIL that NTFS supports this garbage.
To put it another way, you can have files named ‘coffee’ and ‘Coffee’ in the same folder without any conflict.
:head_bang_wall_repeatedly:
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
At least you didn't explicitly explain
TAS stands for.It stands for Thomas A. Speedrun, the guy who invented speed running in video games.
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@hungrier I think Windows does the right thing being case aware but not case sensitive.
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@hungrier said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
you can have files named ‘coffee’ and ‘Coffee’ in the same folder without any conflict.
Great, more coffee
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@hungrier said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@JBert said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
it might turn on case-sensitive support for any directories which were created by WSL
TIL that NTFS supports this garbage.
To put it another way, you can have files named ‘coffee’ and ‘Coffee’ in the same folder without any conflict.
:head_bang_wall_repeatedly:
NTFS also supports this:
cd C:\ && mkdir ohno && cd ohno echo>\\?\C:\ohno\... echo>"\\?\C:\ohno\good luck deleting these files."
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@LB_ said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@hungrier said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@JBert said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
it might turn on case-sensitive support for any directories which were created by WSL
TIL that NTFS supports this garbage.
To put it another way, you can have files named ‘coffee’ and ‘Coffee’ in the same folder without any conflict.
:head_bang_wall_repeatedly:
NTFS also supports this:
cd C:\ && mkdir ohno && cd ohno echo>\\?\C:\ohno\... echo>"\\?\C:\ohno\good luck deleting these files."Can you explain what "this" is?
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Can you explain what "this" is?
Windows does not allow filenames to begin with dots,
.represents the current directory and..refers to the parent directory. NTFS itself, however, has no such restrictions and can be tricked into creating such a file or worse, a folder that folds in on itself all-the-way-down. Using UNC paths prevents that.
Pentester’S Windows NTFS Tricks Collection
In this blog post René Freingruber (@ReneFreingruber) from the SEC Consult Vulnerability Lab shares different filesystem tricks which were collected over the last years from various blog posts or found by himself.
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
NTFS also supports this:
cd C:\ && mkdir ohno && cd ohno echo>\\?\C:\ohno\... echo>"\\?\C:\ohno\good luck deleting these files."Can you explain what "this" is?
I suppose understanding what it does hinges on knowing what the
\\?is for. I know I don’t. It looks like a path to a server share, on a server named?but I doubt that’s what it is. A-ha: it indicates an extended-length path.Still not a clue why this would create undeleteable files, though.
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@Magus said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Their goal now seems to be to get to .Net 5 by late next year, and have their entire dev stack work on command line on any OS, with even their universal windows apps running on the cross platform stuff.
Their entire dev stack for new applications. Anybody with an existing application or who wants to use an existing library doesn't get to participate in this brave new world.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
Anybody with an existing application or who wants to use an existing library doesn't get to participate in this brave new world.
That's not exactly new. Not just in MS, but anywhere in the industry.
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@Gąska said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
That's not exactly new. Not just in MS, but anywhere in the industry.
Others aren't pretending to have backwards compatibility.
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@LB_ said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@hungrier said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
@JBert said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
it might turn on case-sensitive support for any directories which were created by WSL
TIL that NTFS supports this garbage.
To put it another way, you can have files named ‘coffee’ and ‘Coffee’ in the same folder without any conflict.
:head_bang_wall_repeatedly:
NTFS also supports this:
cd C:\ && mkdir ohno && cd ohno echo>\\?\C:\ohno\... echo>"\\?\C:\ohno\good luck deleting these files."Can you explain what "this" is?
Naming Files, Paths, and Namespaces - Win32 apps
All file systems supported by Windows use the concept of files and directories to access data stored on a disk or device.
For file I/O, the "\\?\" prefix to a path string tells the Windows APIs to disable all string parsing and to send the string that follows it straight to the file system. For example, if the file system supports large paths and file names, you can exceed the MAX_PATH limits that are otherwise enforced by the Windows APIs. For more information about the normal maximum path limitation, see the previous section Maximum Path Length Limitation.
Because it turns off automatic expansion of the path string, the "\\?\" prefix also allows the use of ".." and "." in the path names, which can be useful if you are attempting to perform operations on a file with these otherwise reserved relative path specifiers as part of the fully qualified path.
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@loopback0 said in Windows Subsystem for Linux:
for a lot of it they stopped at GPLv2.
Because GPLv3 is ass cancer.
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@Polygeekery Disagree. You can cure ass cancer.
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I have not used WSL, but I have used VMWare Workstation extensively to run development and evaluation VMs on my Windows workstation and the integration is really good and the interface is seamless. I can spread a desktop for a VM across as many of my monitors as I choose and seamlessly move between the host and VMs. Performance is near enough to native that I cannot tell the difference. No complaints. The price has even dropped a ton since I started using it. IIRC, I think it was like $1,500 a copy when I first bought it. It appears it is only $250/license today.
