European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.
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The EU wants absolute power to censor anything it declares to be terrorism, a list that currently includes Alice in Wonderland and The Smithsonian.
also available in video form from Bryan Lunduke:
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@ben_lubar I think YouTube declared that video to be terrorism.
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@The_Quiet_One said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
@ben_lubar I think YouTube declared that video to be terrorism.
whoops, fixed
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The sender was in fact, the French national Internet Referral Unit, using Europol’s application, which sends the email from an @europol.europa.eu address.
Could you please correct your title?
The wonderful ways in which speed is more important than accuracy.
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Even then, it doesn't seem to be the tragedy people want to make it appear:
The one-hour requirement essentially means that we would need to take reported URLs down automatically and do our best to review them after the fact.
Inconvenient, but that means some content may be taken down, and then put up back again. If I take the trouble to edit my threads on Reddit when they are removed by the mods, a website can take the trouble to check what kind of content has been flagged as terrorist and
if it isn't. A big resounding MEH
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@admiral_p said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
Inconvenient, but that means some content may be taken down, and then put up back again
You don't see 'shoot first, ask questions later' as a problematic approach for just about anything?
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@Cursorkeys you're not killing anyone. It's just a few bits, and nobody is really deleting them. You're just triaging them. So, worst case scenario, big scandal, big reveal, gets flagged as terrorist content. You know it's gonna get flagged, so as soon as you are sent the notice you reply saying "item has already been reviewed by our editors, we deem it is not terrorist content". Those who repost the content may not be so attentive, some of them won't bother refuting the claim, but quantity is not quality anyway. On the other hand, terrorist content is quickly taken down. Don't get me wrong, I still believe it's a pointless measure, but it's never the end of the world.
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@ben_lubar said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
wants absolute power to censor anything it declares to be terrorism
You're just mad we're beating the US at its own game
But seriously, between GDPR, article 13 and this, I fear they're getting addicted to controlling internet, and the internet won't take it well.
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@anonymous234 Again, this is not the EU but a French national agency doing this.
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@admiral_p said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
@Cursorkeys you're not killing anyone. It's just a few bits, and nobody is really deleting them. You're just triaging them. So, worst case scenario, big scandal, big reveal, gets flagged as terrorist content. You know it's gonna get flagged, so as soon as you are sent the notice you reply saying "item has already been reviewed by our editors, we deem it is not terrorist content". Those who repost the content may not be so attentive, some of them won't bother refuting the claim, but quantity is not quality anyway. On the other hand, terrorist content is quickly taken down. Don't get me wrong, I still believe it's a pointless measure, but it's never the end of the world.
I don't agree. There's a reason Google called their censorship log 'Chilling Effects'. Even on a practical level allowing this kind of approach directly encourages sloppiness in the detection and thus rapidly expanding collateral damage, DMCA being the case in point here. Companies have no disincentive to sending low-quality, mass, DMCA takedowns. It's an enormous problem and the root cause is having the review after the action rather than before.
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@ben_lubar said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
The EU wants absolute power to censor anything it declares to be terrorism, a list that currently includes Alice in Wonderland and The Smithsonian.
Actually, the problem is that European technology is lagging far behind Chinese technology, and the EU does not trust China, so they can neither buy the Chinese Great Firewall nor implement it on their own.
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@Rhywden Right, the bogus reports are from a French agency, but the law that would force sites to take anything down within one hour (i.e. automatically) is from the EU.
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@anonymous234 That's not exactly a new thing. International law enforcement agencies have always had this kind of problem - I mean, Turkey has abused the system to go after foreigners and nationals living abroad by declaring them criminals through Interpol.
While that is problematic, I deem the inflammatory and inaccurate OP's article to be very much non-helpful.
Stick to the facts and don't make stuff up.
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@Rhywden said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
The wonderful ways in which speed is more important than accuracy.
a.k.a. corporate programming
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@Rhywden said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
Stick to the facts and don't make stuff up.
Sounds like the correct approach is to get some other national agency to declare that all French-language content is (cultural) terrorism.
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@Cursorkeys on the other hand, the DMCA absolves publishers of responsibility over what they publish (and subsequently take down). Therefore, ”we love the DMCA". Without it many websites wouldn't even exist (both the big behemoths such as YouTube and the small guys that have no need for a legal team).
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@admiral_p said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
Without it many websites wouldn't even exist (both the big behemoths such as YouTube and the small guys that have no need for a legal team).
I'd need a cite on that, everything seemed to be mostly fine before. What was generally happening was that large media companies were complaining that smaller sites took too long to respond to their removal requests, not that they were stamping all over them. The cure seems to have been, far, far worse than the disease:
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@admiral_p said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
If I take the trouble to edit my threads on Reddit when they are removed by the mods, a website can take the trouble to check what kind of content has been flagged as terrorist and
if it isn't.The difference is, you care about your content, but platform providers usually don't care about someone else's content - especially when they still have shittons of other content from other people.
Now, if the reviewing and bringing back was also required by law just like taking down is, it would be a different discussion. But it isn't. So 99% of platform providers won't care in 99% of cases. Never underestimate the
.
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@Rhywden said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
I mean,
TurkeySpain has abused the system to go afterforeigners and nationalslocal politicians livingabroadin Belgium and Germany by declaring them criminals through Interpol.They retracted the warrant when it was getting obvious that Belgian politics where not amused and courts would boot it out. They tried again in Germany only to get slammed by the court.
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@BernieTheBernie said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
@ben_lubar said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
The EU wants absolute power to censor anything it declares to be terrorism, a list that currently includes Alice in Wonderland and The Smithsonian.
Actually, the problem is that European technology is lagging far behind Chinese technology, and the EU does not trust China, so they can neither buy the Chinese Great Firewall nor implement it on their own.
Watcha talking bout? Recent calls from the US to ban Chinese equipment have been largely ignored by Europe, e.g. HUAWEI being considered a manageable risk over here.
Huawei’s 5G equipment is a manageable risk, British intelligence claims
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Meanwhile, the US is moving to ban Huawei’s equipment
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@bjolling said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
HUAWEI being considered a manageable risk over here.
Provided they get their shit together and stop using lots of old versions of software. (It looks like incompetence… but sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. )
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@bjolling Making grossly insecure products is not legal reason for a company be banned. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to buy consumer routers.
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sends the email from an @europol.europa.eu address
Now I'm wondering, do we know whether the mails were (digitally) signed? Because if not, it is also possible that somebody faked them—we all know how easy it is to send email from whatever address you please.
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@BernieTheBernie said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
Actually, the problem is that European technology is lagging far behind Chinese technology, and the EU does not trust China, so they can neither buy the Chinese Great Firewall nor implement it on their own.
The "problem" isn't technical. In fact, France has companies like Bull (Atos), which developed and sold Internet surveillance solutions to oppressive regimes (human rights? what's that?). If political powers wanted to deploy something like that, they could -- but they'd have to deal with massive anger from their citizens. So they have to sneak it in slowly, bit by bit, under the guise of "preventing terrorism" or "protecting children".
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@dkf said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
Sounds like the correct approach is to get some other national agency to declare that all French-language content is (cultural) terrorism.
Come on. I know some of our cheese stinks, but I promise we won't use it as a weapon.
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@Bulb said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
sends the email from an @europol.europa.eu address
Now I'm wondering, do we know whether the mails were (digitally) signed? Because if not, it is also possible that somebody faked them—we all know how easy it is to send email from whatever address you please.
They've got SPF set up, so if anyone tried to fake it without also spoofing DNS for archive.org's mail server, they'd get dropped.
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@Zerosquare said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
Come on. I know some of our cheese stinks, but I promise we won't use it as a weapon.
("Smell that, friends!" "I... I'm going to lie down...")
And the follow-up a bit later:
("We searched everywhere: no one." "But there is a strange smell coming up from there. Like some sort of crazy cheese." "A volunteer to..." "Yeah, sure, I get it.")inb4
that's a cheese from Corsica, which some people claim is not France.
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@remi Vlabadabaoum!
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@remi
What an idea to take Corsican cheese with you when visiting the Notre Damme.
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@lolwhat said in European Union declares CSPAN, The Grateful Dead, and A Tale of Two Cities to be terrorism.:
Official EU Agencies Falsely Report More Than 550 Archive.org URLs as Terrorist Content
