How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?
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@Lorne-Kates said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@Groaner said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
But I will give you that callbacks can be a pain in the ass (e.g. having to use Session to keep track of dynamically-added controls in an update panel, etc.).
Just recreate the controls OnInit, using the same IDs.
That's what I'm doing! Thing is, where do you store those IDs (and control values) so you can recreate potentially zero, one, or several controls, depending on how many times the user clicked the + to add another control? I'm just following the instructions outlined in the Devexpress sample code, which plops the above into
Session
. It also makes me wonder if they've thought about what happens if the user points a second browser tab at the page.@Groaner said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Viewstate is there for a reason. HTTP is not stateful. Viewstate can also be disabled if the developer accepts the tradeoffs. I see such a compromise as like implementing a reliability layer on top of UDP - something that has valid use cases, but shouldn't be the immediate solution.
Yes it is there for a reason, but not the one you say. The best thing ViewState does is effectively "sign" the page so illicit content can't be injected-- and prevents CSRF.
Of course there's that. I consider that to be a helpful feature on top of storing control values on the page and adding some "state" to a stateless protocol.
@Groaner said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
In the past 11 years, I haven't felt the need to inherit from a webpage.
I've inherited from UserControls many times. There's usually a bunch of stuff I want a UserControl to do automagically, so I make a BaseUserControl, put stuff I need into properties and PageLoad, etc-- then have my web controls inherit from it.
Seems legit.
UserControl
s are rare in our apps, much less inheriting from them.@Groaner said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
I haven't been in a situation where I wished I could rapidly change the guts of a page where I wasn't already doing a major revision.
Responsive design for mobile-- though that in itself is a major revision. Need to do Floating Div Fuckery to make shit go side-by-side on desktop, then top-to-bottom on mobile.
It amuses me how often I find myself using the desktop site from mobile rather than dealing with a mobile site.
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@Lorne-Kates said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
I literally cannot tell if any of those are real or fake.
And if they're not real today, they might be tomorrow.
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@cvi said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@Lorne-Kates said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
I literally cannot tell if any of those are real or fake.
And if they're not real today, they might be tomorrow.
Inedo can't really talk on naming though:
BuildMaster: Strong start, it builds stuff and it's great at it
Otter: Errr, zoo inventory management?
Romp: Oh, come on now!
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@pie_flavor said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Rust (Rocket)
A rusty rocket doesn't seem very safe to me.
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@HardwareGeek said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@pie_flavor said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Rust (Rocket)
A rusty rocket doesn't seem very safe to me.
Is it similar to a rusty trombone? Those aren't safe either.
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@Lorne-Kates said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Kucumber
@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Dicker
@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Kubernutes
@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Helm
I literally cannot tell if any of those are real or fake.
One of them is named correctly.
Another one is actually useful.
The third one can be controlled by one of the others.
The remaining one is a dumbed-down copy of the third one.Not necessarily in that order.
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@Cursorkeys said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Inedo can't really talk on naming though:
BuildMaster: Stong start, it builds stuff and it's great at itWe strive to provide you with a smooth BM experience.
Otter: Errr, zoo inventory management?
Romp: Oh, come on now!Otters are amazingly cute, and a group of them is called a Romp. Think of the merchandising. Now think of the software. Ready to buy yet?
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@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Ready to buy yet?
Not the software, but the merch: hell yeah!
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@Groaner said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
The last greenfield Web application I did by myself was in 2015, using ASP.NET Webforms
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@kazitor said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@apapadimoulis Please put the articles on a public repo so I can fix all the typos
ALL the typos? So you plan on living to be 176 years old?
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@kazitor said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
I just noticed this page has a link to what I can only assume is tonight's coming, currently-unpublished article. I suppose it's not particularly surprising that the Daily WTF site would have its own like that.
Again?
Back in 2013, I did a longer story. We thought it would be neat to chop it into two parts. So I published part 1, and set part 2 to unpublished. I (for convenience) put a link to Part 2 in the Part 1 article, but commented it out with
<!--β -->
fake edit here's the thing:<p><i>To be continued...</i></p> <!--β Dramatic music! Tune in next time! --> <!--β Also, if you're reading from the archives, you won't see this message. Instead, there will be a hyperlink to http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Tye-That-Binds-(part-2).aspx --><div>
Of course everyone looks at the page source. Or the "view the comments" plugin might have been a thing. When I posted the article, I wasn't too worried because, hey, part 2 is unpublished.
Except anyone could see unpublished articles as long as they had the link. Ooops. As you can tell by the comments:
Alex fixed up the code to put authorization in. Maybe that got reverted?
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@apapadimoulis OK, after a reboot SQL 2016 deigned to be installed. And I have some feedback!
I was a bit confused what to do after installing, no BuildMaster entry in the Start Menu? But some services have started so something installed. Eventually saw the Hub icon hanging out in the mess at the top of the menu and worked out you start BuildMaster through that.
Easy enough to follow the instructions from that point, maybe a wizard would be nice but I guess it's the sort of thing that once you've done it a few times you know where to go.
Build environment needed a good slap to get it working, but that's not BuildMaster's fault, nice that the log with the error was prominent.
After making a Release the Overview screen looks like this:
Not sure why that's blank? It only shows releases that aren't deployed yet? It's not clear anyway.
I wanted to get back to this screen but I couldn't:
I've figured out that you have to click on the build number, which is really hard to find. This should be prominently linked from the Overview page IMHO.
When getting the execution logs I wanted to click on the nice 'Production' box, but you can't get to them from there. Even with the instructions they were hard to find. Personally I'd like this:
Not sure if any of that is useful, I'm going to try it in anger on a real project now and see how that goes.
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@Cursorkeys said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
try it in anger
On a Friday afternoon and you have the best real life test of a build tool
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@Lorne-Kates it probably wasn't clear, but the "link" was the next article link down the bottom. Obviously I can't test this, but it seems an unpublished page can show other unpublished pages in the navigation.
The other issue, of course, is that I could view unpublished pages.
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@Lorne-Kates said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Back in 2013, I did a longer story.
That was that long ago? I guess it makes sense, as I remember people talking about it on Community Server.
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@Cursorkeys said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Not sure why that's blank? It only shows releases that aren't deployed yet? It's not clear anyway.
I know the navigation can definitely be improved , especially if you're quickly navigating it for the first time. So, we'll do this to clarify it: https://inedo.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/BM-3324
Not sure if any of that is useful, I'm going to try it in anger on a real project now and see how that goes.
Definitely! Thanks. And actually, I really like your suggestion of linking the execution logs too, and I added this: https://inedo.myjetbrains.com/youtrack/issue/BM-3323
Very simple changes, but honestly very hard to see once you know the system in-and-out.
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@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Just need to get a way to shame you into submitting a pull request to fix it yourself, and thank me for the opportunity
Also known as "The full Jeff".
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@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Very simple changes, but honestly very hard to see once you know the system in-and-out.
That's why it is always important to listen to customers and (if possible) observe how they really work, for all products; developers always get too close to their systems to see all of what ought to be done.
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This post is deleted!
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@DoctorJones said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Just need to get a way to shame you into submitting a pull request to fix it yourself, and thank me for the opportunity
Also known as "The full Jeff".
TCoCDCK spy detected!
Filed under: How dare you take our lord's name in vain?
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@Groaner Ha, I like the way you think. I keep calling TFS Team Fortress. Nobody gets it though.
@Unperverted-Vixen said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@Groaner said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
People keep telling me that Webforms is going away and that ASP.NET Marvel vs. Capcom is the way to go, and that Angular is pretty cool, but I have yet to see a value proposition as to why they're better.
- Easier to understand (no arcane page lifecycle - each request corresponds to exactly one controller method; async/await are as simple as decorating the relevant action)
- Smaller requests (better performance - no worries about ending up with megabytes of viewstate)
- Dependency injection (partially supported in Web Forms since April 2018, but some components like ASMX services are still unsupported) - benefit both for testing, and for some inheritance scenarios
- Supports inheritance without changing presentation code (can make controller changes without needing to change the CSHTML/ASPX)
Some of those may be specific to our environment but itβs done a great job of minimizing the amount of customization needed for each client.
That said, ASP.NET Core, as a framework, doesnβt offer much over MVC. (Injectable attributes would be nice.) Increased performance would be the main reason to do that.
I've only seen H1Bs use MVC to turn simple webpages into 10-tier clusterfucks that crap out "oops, something happened, revert the needful" if they don't just silently stop executing altogether. For performance and readability, nothing beats
classic ASPthe classic ASP model with limited JavaScript and AJAX on the front end.
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@DoctorJones said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
Just need to get a way to shame you into submitting a pull request to fix it yourself, and thank me for the opportunity
Also known as "The full Jeff".
Only if you reject the PR, then re-implement it yourself with fewer features and more bugs.
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Just going to comment on the effectiveness of Salmiakki as a lifestyle improvement product:
Before Salmiakki:
After Salmiakki:
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@JazzyJosh The second photo isn't APap though
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@TwelveBaud Details, details.
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@TwelveBaud said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@JazzyJosh The second photo isn't APap though
Better?
To be fair, I thought it was a strong change, but a believable difference. Also I am a retard who can't read an explicit name in the post.
Filed Under: Salmiak doesn't change you into a better person, it changes you into a different person
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@apapadimoulis said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
I don't do SQL. I do code that generates SQL.
This gives me a sad.
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This is interesting, as my company is considering taking in K8s for deployment management this week, and will probably try bring it online next few months.
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@Karla Why so?
We do softcoding the main data table structures, so that's a lot of generated SQL as well.
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@PleegWat said in How to Build Modern Software with all the Kubernutes?:
@Karla Why so?
We do softcoding the main data table structures, so that's a lot of generated SQL as well.
I interpreted the statement as that you avoid SQL. I like SQL.