Clutch!
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
It's really the parking brake, because you engage it when you park on a slope.
Some of the SF hills I was referring to earlier - they're steep enough that parking is done perpendicular to the road. Parking parallel would practically guarantee accidents. (Especially when the ground moves around here)
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Clutch!:
So now you have a piece of equipment on your car that can also nicely be used to stop the car from rolling backwards in an uphill slope -even if your intention is not to park. What do you do?
Buy a better car.
My brother-in-law has what he argues is a better car (a Landrover). It's been parked outside our barn for twelve years because while he may get it to start rolling, he has yet to fix it so that he can stop it.
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Clutch!:
It's been parked outside our barn for twelve years because while he may get it to start rolling, he has yet to fix it so that he can stop it.
Then how did he get it stopped by your barn?
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
It's really the parking brake, because you engage it when you park on a slope.
Some of the SF hills I was referring to earlier - they're steep enough that parking is done perpendicular to the road. Parking parallel would practically guarantee accidents. (Especially when the ground moves around here)
Safety 2: turn the wheels so that if the car starts to roll, it will hit the curb. Or don't live in SF.
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@Mikael_Svahnberg said in Clutch!:
It's been parked outside our barn for twelve years because while he may get it to start rolling, he has yet to fix it so that he can stop it.
Then how did he get it stopped by your barn?
Sturdy walls. :-)
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
It's really the parking brake, because you engage it when you park on a slope.
Some of the SF hills I was referring to earlier - they're steep enough that parking is done perpendicular to the road. Parking parallel would practically guarantee accidents. (Especially when the ground moves around here)
If you voluntarily choose to live in SF then you deserve no less.
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
Buy a better car.
You mean one of those American automatic ones with the funny letters on the shifter?
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@RaceProUK it's spring loaded... if I was to hit a bump just right... I dunno.
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@boomzilla said in Clutch!:
If you voluntarily choose to live in SF then you deserve no less.
I'm south a ways. On reasonably stable (for here) ground. My house has survived since 1941, so that's saying something! (Well, it says the builder knew what the hell he was doing and built it to last! Unlike the shit built in the 60s and 70s)
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@Dragnslcr said in Clutch!:
@anonymous234 said in Clutch!:
@RaceProUK Emergency brake is a very bad name for it and they should stop using it.
Also, why would you ever put it on a pedal? I could understand if you put it on a button or lever or something, but pedals are meant to be for things that you employ while driving, and they are expected to go back to their original position when you release them.
If I remember correctly, the parking brake on my first car was a pedal on the floor to the left (where the clutch is in manual cars, I think), and the release lever was on the dashboard above it.
That was a 1989 car, though, so I have no idea if any cars more recent than that had the same thing.
Every vehicle I've been in with a pedal-engaged parking brake has been located to the far left, relatively far from where a clutch would be located. They are also typically located high up (as @anotherusername has mentioned) so that they are out of the way when disengaged and require conscious effort to engage. The ones I have experience with come in 2 varieties:
- Pedal to engage, lever to release. This typically puts the release lever next to the hood release, meaning that you certainly do not want to be using this kind of brake during normal driving, since pulling the wrong lever could release the main hood latch, potentially allowing the hood to fly up during driving.
- Pedal to engage and release. In this setup, the pedal is pushed to the floor to engage. When you are ready to release the parking brake, you lightly depress the pedal again, and it comes back up with your foot.this could potentially be used during driving, but the high position when disengaged would make it awkward in stop-and-go city traffic – seeing as one of the reasons for utilizing the parking/hand brake mentioned by @lucas1 was to not blind the drivers behind you.
In either case, I have only encountered such brakes in vehicles that have a sub-model where an additional seat is located immediately adjacent to the driver, preventing a handbrake from being positioned in that space. This necessitates a different design for the parking brake mechanism, which is then utilized for the entire model line to simplify production and maintenance.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
In my manual it's a pedal to the far left and it's higher up.
I cannot imagine a less appropriate place for the handbrake / parking brake in a manual. No wonder you think it shouldn't actually be used while standing at a red light or stop sign. It seems like your car was designed for automatic transmission until some marketing idiot decided that they needed to offer a manual transmission as an option as well.
In a manual, you should be able to operate the handbrake with your hand, so you can concentrate on the gas pedal and the clutch while starting your car on a hill.
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@RaceProUK said in Clutch!:
@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
Releasing the hood by mistake could be ... bad.
Not really: you'd still need to go to the front of the car and unhook the bonnet manually before it'll rise
Depends on the speeds involved. If you are getting on the freeway/highway/motorway/whatever you want to call it, your speed could be sufficient to cause the hood to tear loose from the manual release hook. This is especially true if the secondary latch (the one you manually release at the front of the vehicle) is worn or not properly maintained.
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@asdf on the other hand, the way your car was built makes it easy (and even encouraged) to have both the handbrake and the gas applied at the same time, even if momentarily.
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@Dragnslcr said in Clutch!:
f I remember correctly, the parking brake on my first car was a pedal on the floor to the left (where the clutch is in manual cars, I think), and the release lever was on the dashboard above it.
That was a 1989 car, though, so I have no idea if any cars more recent than that had the same thing.I remember our Ford Econoline van had the parking brake there too.
Yup, mine was a Ford (Taurus) as well.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
@Dragnslcr said in Clutch!:
If I remember correctly, the parking brake on my first car was a pedal on the floor to the left (where the clutch is in manual cars, I think), and the release lever was on the dashboard above it.
In my manual it's a pedal to the far left and it's higher up. It couldn't be confused with any of the other pedals. The release is somewhere near the hood release, but I wouldn't want to try to find it while driving. Releasing the hood by mistake could be ... bad.
Yeah, I just meant in the same general area. I've been lucky enough to never have to drive a manual </heretic>
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- Pedal to engage, lever to release. This typically puts the release lever next to the hood release, meaning that you certainly do not want to be using this kind of brake during normal driving, since pulling the wrong lever could release the main hood latch, potentially allowing the hood to fly up during driving.
In either case, I have only encountered such brakes in vehicles that have a sub-model where an additional seat is located immediately adjacent to the driver, preventing a handbrake from being positioned in that space. This necessitates a different design for the parking brake mechanism, which is then utilized for the entire model line to simplify production and maintenance.
Yes to both of these. I have to admit, though, that having a car that seated 8 people legally was pretty useful in high school and college.
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@anotherusername
So? You'll notice your error pretty quickly.
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It seems like your car was designed for automatic transmission until some marketing idiot decided that they needed to offer a manual transmission as an option as well.
That used to be typical of American cars. It's only not the case now because Americans who buy cars with manual transmissions are doing so because they prefer them and expect to have more than brain-dead design.
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@PleegWat said in 📷 Photos thread:
I'm guessing he doesn't know how to drive away uphill in a manual without rolling back.
I know how! Some of the SF hills are very steep.
Yeah, I hate those science fiction hills, too!
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
@asdf on the other hand, the way your car was built makes it easy (and even encouraged) to have both the handbrake and the gas applied at the same time, even if momentarily.
How else would you prevent your car from rolling backwards downhill when stopping on a red light on a slope?
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@Rhywden by using the brake. But not at the same time as you're using the gas.
Manuals enforce this better than automatics, because there are 3 pedals and your feet can't be in 3 places at once.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
@Rhywden by using the brake. But not at the same time as you're using the gas.
Manuals enforce this better than automatics, because there are 3 pedals and your feet can't be in 3 places at once.
Yes they can. I've heel-and-toed the brake/gas pedal before...
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My car has a pilot's handbrake, which I'm going to miss when I change it
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@dcon even if they can, they still shouldn't...
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
@dcon even if they can, they still shouldn't...
Still, it's useful when needed... In my 25 years of driving stick, I can probably count the times I've done that on one hand. Of course, that was before I owned Subaru's with their hill holder clutch. (Sadly, I now drive automatics since manual is no longer an option on the Outback.)
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In a manual, you should be able to operate the handbrake with your hand, so you can concentrate on the gas pedal and the clutch while starting your car on a hill.
With one hand on the steering wheel, one hand on the shifter, and one hand on the handbrake. Got it... Wait, that's one too many hands!
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@kt_ seriously...
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SF
= San Francisco (?)
Certainly not.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
@dcon even if they can, they still shouldn't...
...unless that's the only way the vehicle (safely/easily) allows transitioning from stopped to moving forwards when facing up-hill, especially when the parking brake has to be fully engaged before it can be released.
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one hand on the shifter
? When's the last time you've driven a manual?When you're starting your car on a slope, it will take you at least a whole second until you need to think about switching to second gear. So you don't need your hand anywhere near the shifter while you're standing.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
@Rhywden by using the brake. But not at the same time as you're using the gas.
Manuals enforce this better than automatics, because there are 3 pedals and your feet can't be in 3 places at once.
Right. I'll keep using my method which I've been taught which actually ensures that I won't roll back even 1 cm.
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one hand on the shifter
? When's the last time you've driven a manual?When you're starting your car on a slope, it will take you at least a whole second until you need to think about switching to second gear. So you don't need your hand anywhere near the shifter while you're standing.
Not to mention that our handbrakes are directly next to the gearstick.
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Pfft. We have streets just as steep in Seattle, I did them in a 1965 Chevy S10 with original tranny without rolling-back.
EDIT: and yes motherfuckers will see your rust-covered POS truck from the '60s on the steep hill and still pull within 4" of your bumper. They're basically just ASKING to be hit.
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@anotherusername said in Clutch!:
because there are 3 pedals and your feet can't be in 3 places at once
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SF
= San Francisco (?)
Certainly not.
Certainly so!
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one hand on the shifter
? When's the last time you've driven a manual?When you're starting your car on a slope, it will take you at least a whole second until you need to think about switching to second gear. So you don't need your hand anywhere near the shifter while you're standing.
A bit over a year and a half ago. We left my wife's 1970 Chevy pickup with her folks when we moved across the country. But that had a foot-pedal parking brake that had to be fully engaged before it could be released (by depressing it again), so I don't actually have experience driving one o' them fancy new-fangled cars with a manual tranny and a handbrake.
The approximate sequence to start her truck uphill was
- Don't -- you'll probably either kill it, give everyone with you whiplash when you drop into gear too quickly, or roll backwards before moving forwards (or all of the above).
- If you have to, then
(a) depress the brake pedal,
(b) release the parking brake (can occur any time between a and e, exclusively)
(c) depress the clutch,
(d) shift the gearstick tofirstsecond gear, and then
(e) try to smoothly coordinate increasing the gas and releasing the brake with the right foot (heel-toe) and releasing the clutch with the left foot.
I'd guess that about the same sequence is true when using a handbrake, except that the regular brake is not used and the parking brake is substituted for it in the sequence above.
Edit for 2d above: First gear is so slow in that truck that it's basically only for starting a pull with a heavy load. It's much easier to start with second in most conditions because it lets the truck get enough speed to have enough momentum to continue moving when trying to up-shift, even when the slope might be fairly steep and without over-revving the engine.
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@blakeyrat said in Clutch!:
EDIT: and yes motherfuckers will see your rust-covered POS truck from the '60s on the steep hill and still pull within 4" of your bumper. They're basically just ASKING to be hit.
Maybe they're just offering their bumper to help you with the hill start? How nice of them, you should take them up on it!
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(d) shift the gearstick to first gear
So you're not in first gear while standing? Why?
Don't you automatically shift into second gear and then first gear when braking at an intersection and coming to a full stop?
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So you're not in first gear while standing? Why?
If you're standing still for an extended period of time (i.e. traffic lights), you should be in neutral to prevent wearing the clutch if the pedal isn't 100% depressed. But yes, before you even think of getting going, you should put the car in gear.
Don't you automatically shift into second gear and then first gear when braking at an intersection and coming to a full stop?
I don't know about your car, but in all the ones that I have driven, the first gear was good for up to about 5km/h. At that point you might as well just brake and save yourself the effort.
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(d) shift the gearstick to first gear
So you're not in first gear while standing? Why?
No, neutral. Because that's what neutral is for: standing when the engine is running.
Don't you automatically shift into second gear and then first gear when braking at an intersection and coming to a full stop?
No, it's a manual transmission. You do that manually.
And then you manually shift it into neutral.
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@asdf Yeah, what @Deadfast and @anotherusername said.
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Most hill starts in the UK use the handbrake. If I follow your logic every driving instructor in the UK is wrong?
It may be a idiot rule, but if you do it in your driving test here you'll fail.
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the first gear was good for up to about 5km/h
I forgot about this. We almost never used first gear and started directly into second. I corrected my post above to reflect that.
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If you're standing still for an extended period of time (i.e. traffic lights), you should be in neutral to prevent wearing the clutch if the pedal isn't 100% depressed.
I was taught to continuously press the pedal. I guess we found another difference between European and US driving instructors.
But since you should switch to the first gear before even thinking of releasing the handbrake either way, it's irrelevant to the above discussion.
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continuously press the pedal
That works, and saves time and movement if you're in continuous stop-and-go driving, but if you have to hold it for a while, your leg can tire and subconsciously relax. If the car is in gear when that happens, you'll suddenly start moving when you don't expect to. Moving the stick to neutral prevents that issue.
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@djls45
I wasn't trying to say that this is a bad idea; I just personally don't do it. If I'm standing for an extended period of time, I either keep the pedal pressed or (if my foot gets tired in a traffic jam) turn the engine off completely. I guess this is a matter of preference.
