Net neutrality non-neutrality
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@kazitor said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@dkf I'm a fan of http://darksky.net/. It seems to give better forecasts than other sites, for whatever reason. At least with regards to rainfall, because that's all I ever care about.
Never heard of this one before, I'll have to play around with it and see. I usually use Weather Underground since it aggregates data not only from the big official monitors (like the ones at airports) but lets anyone set up a sensor for things and link it up to their network to report data.
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@izzion
Vis-a-vis my previous. I happened to leave a tab up to TWC when I checked the weather this morning before going to work (approximately 10 hours ago). Presented without further comment:
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@TimeBandit This is complete bullshit:
The FCC's justification for repealing net neutrality rules was almost entirely based on Pai's prediction that deregulation would cause network infrastructure spending to rise.
The main justification was that they didn't have the power to disregard the statute and impose "Net Neutrality."
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@TimeBandit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
Comcast cable network spending dropped 3 percent to $7.7 billion in 2018.
How much has it changed in miles?
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Ars Technica article about a political topic
This is complete bullshit
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So how y'all feel about broadband speed and access in your area - it's great, right? The national map says it is really great.
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@Gribnit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
So how y'all feel about broadband speed and access in your area - it's great, right? The national map says it is really great.
"Net nootralitee" has dick to do with availability.
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@lolwhat so what? Decided to hold the line on topic drift for a reason, or just suddenly forget what forum you're on?
The FCC has been brought into this dicsuccion quite a few times, so I think it's fair to bring their probity into the argument - that map, it is bollocks.
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@Gribnit
It is and it isn't. ISPs do have to actually offer the speeds they claim for the mop, they just usually wind up being $100+ per month of service, so nobody gets it and they complain about how all they "can get" is their 10Mbps/1Mbps service or something.Especially in rural areas, where fixed location wireless (or satellite) are the primary connectivity, 25Mbps/3Mbps is actually fairly expensive to provide. Between renting tower space (or installing a $15k+ tower plus leasing the land), putting up the equipment to service clients ($3k-5k for providing 200 Mbps total throughput in each of the 4 cardinal directions from the tower in a 2 mile radius, or about 100 Mbps total throughout in a 4-5 mile radius), installing the clients ($200-300 per client), and getting service to the tower ($1k+ per month for a fiber line to it, or you chain backhaul back to a site where you can aggregate towers and get cheaper fiber service).... it gets pretty expensive, especially if people are getting very high speed connections and reducing the number of clients you can defray your costs over.
Edit: added the reduction in capacity caused by using towers for longer ranges, as is typical. Also should note, the coverage radius assumes no obstructions (trees, buildings, hills/mountains) and relatively flat land between the tower site and the client site. You can get more coverage if the tower is on an elevated point, especially if it’s 300 feet or taller, though most towers installed specifically for fixed wireless ISPs are 190 feet or shorter because they require much less structural support and don’t have to be registered with the FAA or maintain expensive warning light systems. And those taller towers that do exist are extremely expensive to collocate on (often thousands of dollars per month to mount 5-6 antennas at a given level), due to how much they cost the tower owner to install and maintain.
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@Gribnit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
dicsuccion
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@Gribnit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
So how y'all feel about broadband speed and access in your area - it's great, right? The national map says it is really great.
Pretty good. The local cable company is now advertising 100Mbps service instead of just 30Mbps.
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@pie_flavor Ah yes, Arse Technica, that bastion of unbiased journalism.
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@lolwhat It's fun to see what people will accuse of bias, because then you can go scan for bias and find out exactly what pisses yon people off.
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@Gribnit Wait, who's accusing whom of bias? I mean, if you're referring to my statement, why do you think I was being sarcastic?
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@lolwhat Well it's spelled Ars
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@Gribnit We've got the answer. We've implemented it. If people want the actual answer they should make actual new legal classifications instead of shoehorning new concepts into old categories.
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@pie_flavor Like telecommunications vs information services? Which one do you think your ISP is? I mean, they install some physical plant and all. Does Netflix install any physical plant?
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@Gribnit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
Does Netflix install any physical plant?
Yeah. See, there's a plant right there.
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@Gribnit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@pie_flavor Like telecommunications vs information services? Which one do you think your ISP is? I mean, they install some physical plant and all. Does Netflix install any physical plant?
As I just said: the solution is to make new categories.
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@pie_flavor Sigh, you're doing deregulationism backwards.
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@Gribnit who said deregulation is the solution?
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@Gribnit it's got nothing to do with deregulationism.
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@pie_flavor yeah, but he's decided that's the only thing you'd ever advocate for.
Filed Under: The @Gribnit Whisperer
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@TimeBandit Gee, who'da thunk it?
Aside from everyone who's been saying exactly this since the idea first came up, that is...
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@Mason_Wheeler The studies that were posted upthread in defense of the FCC's justification can all get collectively bent, I'll assume.
'As long as one other person agrees with me, I'm definitely right.'
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@pie_flavor The majority of them were literally already debunked before they were even written, so... yeah, they can.
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@Mason_Wheeler And I'm sure this one was too.
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@TimeBandit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
It doesn't matter. We're all already dead from the repeal. Also, I was under the impression that "obeying the law" was the primary justification.
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@e4tmyl33t said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@kazitor said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@dkf I'm a fan of http://darksky.net/. It seems to give better forecasts than other sites, for whatever reason. At least with regards to rainfall, because that's all I ever care about.
Never heard of this one before, I'll have to play around with it and see. I usually use Weather Underground since it aggregates data not only from the big official monitors (like the ones at airports) but lets anyone set up a sensor for things and link it up to their network to report data.
Though it looks to me like darksky does the same thing.
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@boomzilla said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
It doesn't matter. We're all already dead from the repeal. Also, I was under the impression that "obeying the law" was the primary justification.
I don't recall being able to detect any difference when either change happened:
- Net neutrality was imposed;
- Net neutrality was repealed.
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By the way, did we ever get a clear-cut definition of net neutrality?
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@lolwhat said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
net neutrality
Dictionary
net neutrality
noun
the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites.
"legislation to protect net neutrality"
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@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@lolwhat said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
net neutrality
Dictionary
net neutrality
noun
the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites.
"legislation to protect net neutrality"Hmm. So when Verizon stopped supporting Usenet, was that a violation of the above definition?
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@jinpa said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@lolwhat said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
net neutrality
Dictionary
net neutrality
noun
the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites.
"legislation to protect net neutrality"Hmm. So when Verizon stopped supporting Usenet, was that a violation of the above definition?
well if they stopped supporting it by shutting down their usenet gateway server, but allowed you to continue accessing usenet via someone else's gateway server, no that's not a violation of net neutrality.
If they stopped allowing all usenet traffic on their network regardless of what gateway server or client was generating the traffic, then yes that would violate net neutrality.
Which case they fall into would require knowing facts about this lack of support that I do not possess, nor do I possess the inclination to acquire said facts.
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@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
nor do I possess the inclination to acquire said facts.
FTFY
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@TimeBandit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
nor do I possess the inclination to acquire said facts.
FTFY
Is that what that emoji means?
I'd been wondering.....
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@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
Is that what that emoji means?
Yes.
I could find where it originated, but
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@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@TimeBandit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
nor do I possess the inclination to acquire said facts.
FTFY
Is that what that emoji means?
I'd been wondering.....
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@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@TimeBandit said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
nor do I possess the inclination to acquire said facts.
FTFY
Is that what that emoji means?
I'd been wondering.....
It means "<but> that would require doing stuff and I'm lazy"
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@Vixen said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
@lolwhat said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
net neutrality
Dictionary
net neutrality
noun
the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites.
"legislation to protect net neutrality"@discobot define net neutrality
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@pie_flavor net neutrality : (noun) the principle that Internet service providers should enable access to all content and applications regardless of the source, and without favoring or blocking particular products or websites
View on lexico.com
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So in Canada we have (something like) net neutrality. It's the reason why Videotron was forced to discontinue its popular free music streaming plan (tldr: legal, licensed music streaming platforms like Spotify, Amazon Music, etc did not count towards your monthly data cap). All the pro-NN people assured everyone that this was a Good Thing because net neutrality is a Good Thing and Good Things are Good, and now that we've shown that we're willing to give up something that seems beneficial in favour of the greater Good, we can reap all the totally real bene
Haha, fuck you, block this website.
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@hungrier said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
Haha, fuck you, block this website.
So, now they've lost the common carrier protection?
Good, they'll get sued when a minor access porn
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@hungrier said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
So in Canada we have (something like) net neutrality. It's the reason why Videotron was forced to discontinue its popular free music streaming plan (tldr: legal, licensed music streaming platforms like Spotify, Amazon Music, etc did not count towards your monthly data cap). All the pro-NN people assured everyone that this was a Good Thing because net neutrality is a Good Thing and Good Things are Good, and now that we've shown that we're willing to give up something that seems beneficial in favour of the greater Good, we can reap all the totally real bene
Haha, fuck you, block this website.
We had something like that happen with the pirate bay, after the pirate bay ignored court orders to stop offering services to Dutch consumers. The copyright organization did manage to force the ISPs to block the site, but only at a specific list of domain names and IPs. If I remember correctly they had to go back to the judge at least once to update the list, several times to apply the ruling to other ISPs, at least part of the time there were different block lists for different ISPs, and the suggestion from the copyright organization that they'd be willing to provide the list was, of course, summarily shot down. I don't recall how (or if) they ended up blocking it.
As of right now I cannot access thepiratebay.se directly but googling for
site:thepiratebay.se ...
, opening cached versions, and copy-pasting magnet URIs still works fine.
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@PleegWat said in Net neutrality non-neutrality:
We had something like that happen with the pirate bay, after the pirate bay ignored court orders to stop offering services to Dutch consumers. The copyright organization did manage to force the ISPs to block the site, but only at a specific list of domain names and IPs. If I remember correctly they had to go back to the judge at least once to update the list, several times to apply the ruling to other ISPs, at least part of the time there were different block lists for different ISPs
We have that here, although the same list is only applied to ISPs with over 400k subscribers - of which there are only 5.
There's also the blacklist provided by the IWF which is blocks sites with images of child porn.