United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@xaade said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
I'd argue that it's also a luggage place because airlines lose my luggage and I need a guaranteed change of clothes in case I sit next to a kid that can't control a cup of soda.
There have always been some worrywarts like you but the abuse of the bins didn't start in earnest until the arrival of baggage fees.
Refresh my memory: was it 9/11 or "fuel prices" that led to that? Or both?
I think it was mostly fuel prices, which lead to some airlines figuring out that they could compete by effectively giving you a discount for not checking bags. Now that most airlines do that, the perception about it being a "discount" has flipped, of course.
If anything, 9/11 and the resulting TSA stuff meant less stuff being carried on vs checked.
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@kt_ said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Plus, all of you seem to be missing one thing: people will be far more willing to comply and accept the voucher for the bump if they're outside of the plane.
No one is missing that at all. It's just not terribly relevant for discussing the issue at hand since literally everyone agrees about that.
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@kt_ said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Also, America sucks. This whole bumping thing is fucking awful. I'm not sure it's even legal in Poland or anywhere in Europe to do such a thing, but even if it is I never heard anyone being treated this way.
It is.
@kt_ said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Plus, all of you seem to be missing one thing: people will be far more willing to comply and accept the voucher for the bump if they're outside of the plane. Once they're in the plane they already feel as if they are already traveling. Another thing is, when the question if someone would like to be bumped for x amount of $ is directed to the crowd and not to directly to a person, less people will be willing to take the offer, because they could feel like they could be perceived as cheap people whose time is not worth much.
I don't disagree with you, but at that point in time UA had the choice between fucking 4 people or fucking a hundred or more people. 4 people get fucked, or an entire flight in Louisville gets fucked. Those were the only choices they had.
@kt_ said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
So, UA fucked up, they fucked up big that they let the people onto the plane. What followed was the worst case scenario, sure, but the size of the fuckup is such that I wouldn't want to travel with them. I wouldn't want them to put me in a situation where they're asking me and people around me if we'd care to GTFO and then getting nervous that they're going to be choosing people involuntarily so they could just throw me out.
4 people were going to get bumped. The only reason this became a story is that they had already boarded the aircraft and because Dao lost his shit when asked to leave the plane. UA fucked up, Dao fucked up and arguably the Chicago airport police fucked up (but I don't know if there is an easy way to remove a combative, unruly, belligerent passenger from the tight confines of an airplane).
I would respect Dao more if he were to have left the aircraft and called his lawyer. His response makes me lose respect for him. He contributed to the inconvenience and trauma that an entire aircraft full of people were subjected to.
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Depends heavily on when you get to the airport. I've spent 40-60 minutes at Dulles, but I've also spent 5 minutes.
I never take the first flight out, and I'm normally through the line in 15 minutes or less (at DFW).
@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
There have always been some worrywarts like you but the abuse of the bins didn't start in earnest until the arrival of baggage fees.
When I fly on American Airlines, the overhead bins typically fill up early, so they end up checking people's bags for free.
By the way, where are people finding half-empty flights? Every flight I've been on in the last 4 years has been full, except a red-eye coming back from Las Vegas.
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@xaade said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
My theory is that it has to do with race conditions with the overhead bin.
You need to look for the limiting factor. In this case it is probably the morons that make up our society.
These same morons also seem to be invariably seated in front of me when the plane arrives, so everyone tries to stand up while it takes the cows in front a half hour to get their overhead bags and then saunter off.
Don't forget, they also have to back just a "few" rows to get their back first!
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@antiquarian said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
By the way, where are people finding half-empty flights? Every flight I've been on in the last 4 years has been full, except a red-eye coming back from Las Vegas.
I've been on a couple, and I'm sure they happen, but if it's a consistent thing then the route is going to go away or have fewer flights so that it doesn't happen. Unfilled planes mean higher ticket prices and lower profits.
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Unfilled planes mean higher ticket prices and lower profits.
And filled planes mean overbooking, to account for a surprising and regular rate of no-shows... and so here we are. Just to bring us full circle. :P
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
4 people get fucked, or an entire flight in Louisville gets fucked. Those were the only choices they had.
Lier
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@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
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@wharrgarbl said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
4 people get fucked, or an entire flight in Louisville gets fucked. Those were the only choices they had.
Lier
What other options then, my little Communist friend?
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@Polygeekery we're going on circles here
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@Polygeekery Probably involves deleting someone / something.
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@boomzilla No, they could have spent like 2k to persuade somebody out.
I don't even think it was a cost problem, but employees following a not well thought out procedure by the book.
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
Yeahhh... I pay a lot more attention to that difference now since I fucked up convention travel one time by booking my exit flight a day too early. Missed the flight (I'm part of the problem!), the ticket was non-refundable, and I had to pay at least $450 for another ticket as I recall (next-day flights are fucking expensive).
100% my own fault though, so... no bitching about the airline from me.
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery Probably involves deleting someone / something.
They tried that, but Dao was merely bloodied and bruised.
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@heterodox said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
100% my own fault though, so... no bitching about the airline from me.
That's just un-American.
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@wharrgarbl said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@boomzilla No, they could have spent like 2k to persuade somebody out.
I don't even think it was a cost problem, but employees following a not well thought out procedure by the book.
Yes, they definitely should have spent $2k (* 4) in compensation for a $300 ticket cost.
That is definitely a well thought-out business plan. Well done.
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
Even if they make tickets non-refundable, they'll still end up with empty seats on flights. And if they put folks into those empty seats, the average price per ticket would go down.
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@anotherusername said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Even if they make tickets non-refundable, they'll still end up with empty seats on flights.
As evidenced by my anecdote. :P
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
I would respect Dao more if he were to have left the aircraft and called his lawyer. His response makes me lose respect for him. He contributed to the inconvenience and trauma that an entire aircraft full of people were subjected to.
Yeah, but if he complied, it wouldn't have made national news and the country wouldn't be in the midst of a healthy debate about the state of air travel.
Think of it like that guy in Tunisia who self-immolated and started the Arab Spring. Sure, he may have gotten burned for it, but he furthered a cause much greater than himself.
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
and the country wouldn't be in the midst of a healthy debate about the state of air travel.
Hmm.
@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Think of it like that guy in Tunisia who self-immolated and started the Arab Spring. Sure, he may have gotten burned for it, but he furthered a cause much greater than himself.
New dictators for everyone!
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
I thought that was already the case (and/or you paid a "change" fee which certainly implies that reversing the transaction is not without cost)?
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Think of it like that guy in Tunisia who self-immolated and started the Arab Spring. Sure, he may have gotten burned for it, but he furthered a cause much greater than himself.
I'm pretty sure if I tried as hard as I could, I could not possibly think of a more ridiculous comparison on its face.
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Think of it like that guy in Tunisia who self-immolated and started the Arab Spring. Sure, he may have gotten burned for it, but he furthered a cause much greater than himself.
New dictators for everyone!
Yeah, with the possible exception of Tunisia itself, that didn't turn out so well for the Middle East.
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@kt_ said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
I'm not sure it's even legal in Poland or anywhere in Europe to do such a thing
It is but it's normally done before they get on the plane. There's no chance to be dragging someone off a plane if you don't let them get on.
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
I thought that was already the case (and/or you paid a "change" fee which certainly implies that reversing the transaction is not without cost)?
I can't find numbers, but I would assume that most people buy nonrefundable due to price differences:
Most of those refundable are probably business travelers who probably often need the flexibility and are more likely to be able to afford paying the premium than the average traveler.
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
That doesn't stop no shows. Not on budget airlines at least.
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@heterodox said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Think of it like that guy in Tunisia who self-immolated and started the Arab Spring. Sure, he may have gotten burned for it, but he furthered a cause much greater than himself.
I'm pretty sure if I tried as hard as I could, I could not possibly think of a more ridiculous comparison on its face.
What I'm getting from that is that you're not trying hard enough.
But fear not! With some effort, you could descend into the depths that one of the customers at my previous job did by comparing our CEO getting a pulmonary embolism to the Deepwater Horizon incident.
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@loopback0 said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
That doesn't stop no shows. Not on budget airlines at least.
The airline still go paid.
6 months ago a customer paid for our services. They still are maybe 20% implemented. We are still getting paid so I don't give a shit if they actually use it or not.
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
What I'm getting from that is that you're not trying hard enough.
Yeah, I'm pretty lazy. "Trying as hard as I can" is a purely theoretical concept.
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@loopback0 said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
That doesn't stop no shows. Not on budget airlines at least.
The airline still go paid.
6 months ago a customer paid for our services. They still are maybe 20% implemented. We are still getting paid so I don't give a shit if they actually use it or not.
True, but I'm not sure it stops the airline overbooking.
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@Polygeekery if they can get paid twice for, say, 10% of the seats, then the average ticket cost can be lower, and they'll still make money even if that occasionally means they have to give 2 or 3 people an $800 rebate.
It's not just about them making money, though; it's also about lowering the average ticket price. That's what makes the customers choose them vs. the competition.
If the folks who claim to be outraged really want to protest this... well, I'm not sure what to say because almost all airlines do it. You could try only to patronize the ones who don't, but that doesn't leave you with many options. And there are plenty of people who just want the cheapest fare, so your boycott really won't make a difference.
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@loopback0 said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@heterodox there is also the option of making tickets non-refundable. People bitch about that also.
That doesn't stop no shows. Not on budget airlines at least.
The airline still go paid.
6 months ago a customer paid for our services. They still are maybe 20% implemented. We are still getting paid so I don't give a shit if they actually use it or not.
Oh yeah, the above CEO once told us in an all-hands meeting, "Whoa! Why are you so concerned? I told you to sell Initrode v3.0. I didn't tell you to implement the installations!" Even the sales staff had their jaws hit the floor.
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@anotherusername said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery if they can get paid twice for, say, 10% of the seats, then the average ticket cost can be lower, and they'll still make money even if that occasionally means they have to give 2 or 3 people an $800 rebate.
It's not just about them making money, though; it's also about lowering the average ticket price. That's what makes the customers choose them vs. the competition.
If the folks who claim to be outraged really want to protest this... well, I'm not sure what to say because almost all airlines do it. You could try only to patronize the ones who don't, but that doesn't leave you with many options. And there are plenty of people who just want the cheapest fare, so your boycott really won't make a difference.
This is certainly a problem in markets where the sole measure of efficency is price.
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
worrywarts
It's happened to me that I've been stranded without a change of clothes.
I always pack a set of clothes in my backpack.
Now, keeping in mind, I don't try to shove these massive baggages onto the overhead like some.
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@xaade said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Now, keeping in mind, I don't try to shove these massive baggages onto the overhead like some.
Ha ha! Sucker! That's right, keep subsidizing the rest of us.
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@kt_ said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
This whole bumping thing is fucking awful. I'm not sure it's even legal in Poland or anywhere in Europe to do such a thing, but even if it is I never heard anyone being treated this way.
I'm surprised at how many people here with higher technical knowledge are surprised that situations can arise that cannot be accounted for and would require rearranging people on flights should the airline attempt to have more than halfway full planes.
Have any of you attempted concurrent programming, or anything that requires anticipating resource allotment?
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@xaade said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Now, keeping in mind, I don't try to shove these massive baggages onto the overhead like some.
Ha ha! Sucker! That's right, keep subsidizing the rest of us.
I make up for it by manspreading.
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@xaade said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Now, keeping in mind, I don't try to shove these massive baggages onto the overhead like some.
Ha ha! Sucker! That's right, keep subsidizing the rest of us.
Fine by me. I've grown tired of cramming everything into a carry on only to have it end up checked every time.
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@Groaner actually, most of my plane travel involved being somewhere for a week or more, so I check baggage.
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@xaade said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@xaade said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Now, keeping in mind, I don't try to shove these massive baggages onto the overhead like some.
Ha ha! Sucker! That's right, keep subsidizing the rest of us.
I make up for it by manspreading.
If the radfems also had such massive genitalia* to cram into such a small seat, they would probably be much more sympathetic.
*Specifically, 787 Dreamliner-sized.
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
*Specifically, 787 Dreamliner-sized
Yo dawg...
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Groaner actually, most of my plane travel involved being somewhere for a week or more, so I check baggage.
It's far less of a hassle to do that way. Especially if the company is picking up the tab.
My company even has a policy on upgrades. Last I checked, the rule of thumb was that if it was less than $50 per flight hour to upgrade, you take it.
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@boomzilla said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
*Specifically, 787 Dreamliner-sized
Yo dawg...
The best way to solve the not-enough-seats problem is to smuggle another passenger aircraft inside. Which may contain zero or more within itself.
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
It's far less of a hassle to do that way. Especially if the company is picking up the tab.
For short trips it's often less hassle to not check bags because you don't have to wait for them. I have also flown a fair amount on regional jets whether the standard thing is to gate check a bag, which is simpler and especially quicker than waiting at the baggage carousel.
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@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
I don't disagree with you, but at that point in time UA had the choice between fucking 4 people or fucking a hundred or more people. 4 people get fucked, or an entire flight in Louisville gets fucked. Those were the only choices they had.
Are you sure? Do we know anything about when the flight in question was going to be? I heard someone saying elsewhere that it wasn't even until the next day. (Not sure if that's true or not, but it's definitely possible...)
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@Groaner said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
If the radfems also had such massive genitalia* to cram into such a small seat, they would probably be much more sympathetic.
Now, you can't mansplain to me the difference because you don't have my experiences. You have to listen to my explanation instead.
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@abarker said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
passengers in the US have a higher rate of not showing up when they have purchased a ticket, so the rate of overselling is higher here.
So the ticket has been bought and paid for, but the user doesn't show up. The airline has made its money and obviously there are lot of people who don't think airline travel is that expensive.
@abarker said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Maybe you just plan to travel the day before.
So that's an extra day off work/school, and you need to book the hotel for an extra day as well. Don't forgot to also take another day off after your planned holiday just in case. Times everybody on the plane. What about connecting flights? Is that another day?
@abarker said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
Without overbooking, airlines would need to increase their ticket prices, possibly double them.
So every seat is doubly booked? Why do airlines get a pass on this? I don't expect to turn up to the dentist and find my appointment given away because I 'might not have shown up'.
@abarker said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
In some cases, flights would end up a lot emptier because they weren't oversold.
So what? If 200 people have paid for a seat but only 50 turn up to fly that's good for everyone.
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@masonwheeler said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
@Polygeekery said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
I don't disagree with you, but at that point in time UA had the choice between fucking 4 people or fucking a hundred or more people. 4 people get fucked, or an entire flight in Louisville gets fucked. Those were the only choices they had.
Are you sure? Do we know anything about when the flight in question was going to be? I heard someone saying elsewhere that it wasn't even until the next day. (Not sure if that's true or not, but it's definitely possible...)
I don't know Mason. What is tumblr saying about the incident?
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@coldandtired said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
So the ticket has been bought and paid for, but the user doesn't show up. The airline has made its money and obviously there are lot of people who don't think airline travel is that expensive.
Except, most of those people will either be partial refund, or a delayed connecting flight. This imaginative scenario where the airline made tons of free money because everyone who wasn't on the plane didn't buy coverage or wasn't the fault of the airline or some unforeseen weather event, is all in your head.
@coldandtired said in United Airlines: the airline we love to hate, but we can't agree on why:
I don't expect to turn up to the dentist and find my appointment given away because I 'might not have shown up'.
This also happens. I've gotten two calls in recent years to move appointments. In both cases it was non-emergency "triage". Sometimes the provider themselves is sick. It happens.