Boomla
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In Boomla, everything is a file, there is no database.
Probably
, but ...
SSDS for the Web!!!
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@boomzilla said in Boomla:
Then I might get boomla on me.
I should start demanding royalties when people say that.
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Well, the download results in one 30 MB executable. With a look at the symbols inside the executable, it is possible to find out a little bit.
Apparently it is written in Go and uses some libraries, such as net/http, the 'otto' Javascript interpreter, bazil.org/fuse and some things like tls, ssh, lzw. But the rest of the internals are apparently obfuscated.
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Well, the download results in one 30 MB executable. With a look at the symbols inside the executable, it is possible to find out a little bit.
Apparently it is written in Go and uses some libraries, such as net/http, the 'otto' Javascript interpreter, bazil.org/fuse and some things like tls, ssh, lzw. But the rest of the internals are apparently obfuscated.
Wait, why is it using SSH and FUSE? I thought this was a web application. Is the SSH a server or a client?
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Boomlay!
https://youtu.be/hez6tDpiWDA
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@ben_lubar Can't tell, the go ssh library implements both a client and a server.
And as for Fuse - my guess is that their claims about a file system with built in versioning and branching really do mean that they implemented their own file system, inside an image file, accessible to the server-side Javascript programs through Fuse.
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@ben_lubar said in Boomla:
I thought this was a web application. Is the SSH a server or a client?
He says you can interface with its filesystem/database/thingy using SFTP. So there's at least one use of it.
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@XanderTheGamer It wasn't me I swear.
But you could find that out from his hiring page.
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Author here, I'm happy to answer any questions. Tibor
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@gleemonk It's just a little puzzle, I had my email elsewhere on the page, seems I accidentally removed it from the home page, I'll add it back later, thx for pointing out!
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Author here, I'm happy to answer any questions. Tibor
Hey there! If you mention whoever invited you here, they get a
!
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@candlejack1 said in Boomla:
And the language you have to program in this pile of WTF? Javascript, what else could it be?
For now it is indeed JS only. I plan to add more later. I mean, hey, better to start somewhere.
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Reading http://boomla.com/start-here/tradeoffs
"There are some online services for which you won’t find a Boomla alternative. Such is Google Maps. Instead of embedding a map into your website, you should embed an external link instead."
The "you don't really need it" approach to framework-building.
"There are also services like analytics which have to be integrated into your site to be useful. Boomla doesn’t currently have a built-in analytics solution. I recognize having analytics is a must, so for the time being I have enabled Google Analytics instead."
Uh oh, make that the "You only really need what I need" approach then.Valid point. I'll elaborate more on the why, let say for now if you have immutable websites you can collaborate on them. Think "Fork me". Also, then you can save snapshots of websites. More useful then save as pdf.
This is one usecase for sure, other times you need all fancy features. You will be able to embed anything. I didn't expect people will find this by now, lots are not explained, all coming.
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@blakeyrat said in Boomla:
learn problems of a concurrent environment - whatever it is,
"I don't know what problems these are, but trust me: Boomla solves them!"
Boomla is a simple platform for websites.
In Boomla, everything is a file, there is no database.
Ok... so it either has no dynamic content at all, or it performs like shit. (Or, possibly, it has insane race conditions that corrupt data! That'd be fun.)
Is a car fast? Is a filesystem fast? I wrote a filesystem that is faster than those you have experience with.
There are no processes, just files.
Uh. Huh.
Functional systems have no processes. Process is hidden state.
Forget Apache, there is a built in webserver that just works.
But it's not a process! Some...how!
Well, it's not a process within Boomla. It's one outside of its world. From within, you see no other processes, there is just you, a frozen world and you are doing your life synchronously.
Problems with Linux
The Linux filesystem is slow, not concurrency safe, not transactional, doesn’t support storing and searching structured data. Databases are used instead.
But, you're not using a database. You're using the filesystem. So...
As said, a new kind of FS.
Linux manages processes, provides isolated execution environments. The solution is really slow and processes are hard anyway. Websites require a fast, request-response like solution. Currently, website level apps are plain function calls. Isolation was traded for speed.
I guess it's time to switch to Windows/IIS, which offers both.
Interesting.
Linux provides a graphical user interface yet websites run in the browser.
The browser not being a graphical user interface. I... guess?
I wouldn't trust the clown who wrote this to put air in my tires, much less host my websites.The browser is a GUI, but the GUI visitors see is coded by site developers and not provided by Linux.
As for clown, I do like juggling and stuff.
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Hey maybe we should invite Tibor over to the TDWTF forum for a chat...
"If interested, please get in touch via 0x6465766a6f622e627040676d61696c2e636f6d."
I guess that's a no.
Okay I figured how replies work here. So again, this is just a puzzle and I'm glad I found you guys :)
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that just works.
These words are poisoned for me. Every time I've been told that something "just works," it breaks immediately, and offers no way to fix it (because it's not supposed to be possible to break).
It is supposed to mean no configuration or understanding is required on your end to get it to work. I do not enjoy the knowledge surface area Linux has to offer/require.
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@boomzilla said in Boomla:
Hm, thx for the feedback. Let me advertise Godaddy here. Don't worry it's just the DNS I'm not keeping my server there. If you get this issue and want to see the site please use your hosts file.
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Hmm... That website has a lot of text describing what it is not, and what appearance it creates, but not what it really is.
I thought this cuts it for the time being. I'll write more. Maybe you wanna join the newsletter?
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If you get this issue and want to see the site please
use your hosts filelet me configure a default site.FTFY. No reason not to, unless you're on a shared host, at which point I ridicule your shared host for not providing a better "Hey! Perhaps you wanted one of these sites listed below:" page.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Boomla:
@zupa said in Boomla:
If you get this issue and want to see the site please use your hosts filelet me configure a default site.
FTFY. No reason not to, unless you're on a shared host, at which point I ridicule your shared host for not providing a better "Hey! Perhaps you wanted one of these sites listed below:" page.
I understand it was a DNS issue, thus not on my host. No I'm not on shared host, I built the server myself.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Boomla:
Author here, I'm happy to answer any questions. Tibor
Hey there! If you mention whoever invited you here, they get a
!I searched "boomla" 'cause why not, and found a screenshot of its front page in the images section. I guess, thumbs up Google :)
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I understand it was a DNS issue, thus not on my host.
Yes, it was a DNS issue causing the address to fail to resolve, but it's your server's issue that it only accepts requests by name, and doesn't provide any fallback if being requested by IP instead.
For instance, if I try to visit http://172.217.4.142 (Google), it still works.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Boomla:
I understand it was a DNS issue, thus not on my host.
Yes, it was a DNS issue causing the address to fail to resolve, but it's your server's issue that it only accepts requests by name, and doesn't provide any fallback if being requested by IP instead.
For instance, if I try to visit http://172.217.4.142 (Google), it still works.
You can dynamically create websites on Boomla, and if you make a typo I want to make it clear to you what the issue is instead of magically solving it for you. I do not like magic. As for the IP specifically, I could redirect it.
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I'm happy to answer any questions.
What is the
frequencypassword, Kenneth?Also, why the hell do you have so many domains? The demo is on
demo.boomla.net, but going from there toboomla.netjust makes the server crap itself because the actual project website is onboomla.com, and your own page is onboomla.mewhich you've managed to somehow register to127.0.0.1despite this being probably the most confusing thing I've ever seen. The hell is wrong with accessing your page by typing inlocalhost?
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@Maciejasjmj said in Boomla:
So who's going to be the guinea pig for this?
Well, I got stuck.
All the other steps go just fine, apparently it does recognize the account since any other gives me "unknown account", but the password I set in step 3 won't work, and there's no other one.
Sorry for that, the command line forces you to have an account on the target server. But in the meanwhile push/pull has a GUI on your control panel (boomla.me) which you can use without a remote password like that:
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Sorry for that, the command line forces you to have an account on the target server.
I think that would be worth mentioning in the quickstart guide (which tells you to pull via command line), wouldn't it?
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@Maciejasjmj said in Boomla:
I'm happy to answer any questions.
What is the
frequencypassword, Kenneth?Also, why the hell do you have so many domains? The demo is on
demo.boomla.net, but going from there toboomla.netjust makes the server crap itself because the actual project website is onboomla.com, and your own page is onboomla.mewhich you've managed to somehow register to127.0.0.1despite this being probably the most confusing thing I've ever seen. The hell is wrong with accessing your page by typing inlocalhost?See my other reply for the pass. As for domains.
boomla.comthe project domain,boomla.netis for community websites. As in, if you shoot me an email I can set up an account for you, or in a couple of weeks you will be able to sign up and use any.boomla.netsubdomain.localhostdoesn't cut it as in Boomla you can create branches on subdomains. Then you would need to register every possible branch you want to use in your hosts file, as in,feature.this-site.localhost, which is a shit. Think git branches are boomla subdomains.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Boomla:
Sorry for that, the command line forces you to have an account on the target server.
I think that would be worth mentioning in the quickstart guide (which tells you to pull via command line), wouldn't it?
Sounds like a very reasonable suggestion. I haven't implemented merging yet and I'm in the middle of a feature, thus I don't want to do it now, but I'll most likely tomorrow. I took note, appreciate.
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@ben_lubar Can't tell, the go ssh library implements both a client and a server.
And as for Fuse - my guess is that their claims about a file system with built in versioning and branching really do mean that they implemented their own file system, inside an image file, accessible to the server-side Javascript programs through Fuse.
Nice detective work! The first part is correct. FUSE is used for accessing the files from your Unix host OS. Same goes for SFTP, which is the bridge for Windows - that's what SSH is used for. When you program Boomla, your code within has native access to the filesystem, no FUSE or similar is needed there. As for their claim, it's just me.
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What's the story behind the name "Boomla"? It makes me think of a website that offers silly games to kids.
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@AlexMedia said in Boomla:
What's the story behind the name "Boomla"? It makes me think of a website that offers silly games to kids.
Boomla inherited the domain and thus the name from earlier projects. I first got boomla.net as the com was taken, which I later got lucky to buy on an auction. A good domain is quite hard to get so it was a no-brainer.
Well, isn't it offering a silly game for kids?
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@AlexMedia said in Boomla:
What's the story behind the name "Boomla"? It makes me think of a website that offers silly games to kids.
Boomla inherited the domain and thus the name from earlier projects. I first got boomla.net as the com was taken, which I later got lucky to buy on an auction. A good domain is quite hard to get so it was a no-brainer.
I agree with you on that, all the best names are taken. Is there any specific meaning behind the word Boomla, or is it just something that you liked?
Well, isn't it offering a silly game for kids?
It caters well to the audience of TDWTF :D
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@zupa is boomla compatible with current nodejs code? like, would it possible to run nodebb inside boomla?
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As for domains. boomla.com the project domain, boomla.net is for community websites. As in, if you shoot me an email I can set up an account for you, or in a couple of weeks you will be able to sign up and use any .boomla.net subdomain.
So let's say I take you up on your offer and put a website on there. A devlog, perhaps. It takes off, people love it, it's the new The Old New Thing, and everyone's amazed how nice the website software works.
Mr. Joe Developer sees that nice sleek website on
devlog.boomla.netand thinks "Oooh, I want a website like this too! I wonder what that Boomla thing is!" So he does what he would on any other platform - he deletes the subdomain from the address bar and goes toboomla.net, hoping for instructions about how to set his own website up.Instead, he gets slapped by this:
And you've just lost a user.
Bottom line is - put some banner here. Some blurb about what that "boomla" thing is, because if
boomla.netas a community platform takes off, that's where people will be looking for information. Hell, even set up a redirect toboomla.com, but don't slap a user with an error that makes "502 Bad Gateway" look user friendly.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Boomla:
As for domains. boomla.com the project domain, boomla.net is for community websites. As in, if you shoot me an email I can set up an account for you, or in a couple of weeks you will be able to sign up and use any .boomla.net subdomain.
So let's say I take you up on your offer and put a website on there. A devlog, perhaps. It takes off, people love it, it's the new The Old New Thing, and everyone's amazed how nice the website software works.
Mr. Joe Developer sees that nice sleek website on
devlog.boomla.netand thinks "Oooh, I want a website like this too! I wonder what that Boomla thing is!" So he does what he would on any other platform - he deletes the subdomain from the address bar and goes toboomla.net, hoping for instructions about how to set his own website up.Instead, he gets slapped by this:
And you've just lost a user.
Bottom line is - put some banner here. Some blurb about what that "boomla" thing is, because if
boomla.netas a community platform takes off, that's where people will be looking for information. Hell, even set up a redirect toboomla.com, but don't slap a user with an error that makes "502 Bad Gateway" look user friendly.Good point, fixed, thx!
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@candlejack1 said in Boomla:
@zupa is boomla compatible with current nodejs code? like, would it possible to run nodebb inside boomla?
Nope, this is an OS redesign from scratch. The filesystem API is different. Actually, I managed to hide the VM documentation recently, now it's accessible again in the docs. (Docs >> JavaScript VM >> * )
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@AlexMedia said in Boomla:
@AlexMedia said in Boomla:
What's the story behind the name "Boomla"? It makes me think of a website that offers silly games to kids.
Boomla inherited the domain and thus the name from earlier projects. I first got boomla.net as the com was taken, which I later got lucky to buy on an auction. A good domain is quite hard to get so it was a no-brainer.
I agree with you on that, all the best names are taken. Is there any specific meaning behind the word Boomla, or is it just something that you liked?
Ehm, you seem to want it so badly, but I'm afraid there is none, sorry :D
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Nope, this is an OS redesign from scratch.
Seems like a task well-suited to a one man team.
Filed under: To be fair, it's not your implementation that we're
ing about, it's the underlying concept.
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Nope, this is an OS redesign from scratch.
Seems like a task well-suited to a one man team.
I like challenges.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Boomla:
And you've just lost a user.
He's all open source-y. Like he gives a fuck about that.
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@zupa is boomla opensource?
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@candlejack1 said in Boomla:
@zupa is boomla opensource?
No. I believe open source is not the best vehicle for complex projects like this. I do aspire to build a company with funds to push the limits.
On the other hand, Boomla will support collaboration on top of it in new ways. As in, I plan to open source most of the Boomla (project) websites, like the docs, tools, etc. That means you can fork them, use offline, send pull requests, etc.
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@zupa How isn't it open source? Aren't you running a JS interpreter in it? Did you find a proprietary one?
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@blakeyrat said in Boomla:
@zupa How isn't it open source? Aren't you running a JS interpreter in it? Did you find a proprietary one?
Yes, it is running the otto JS interpreter. How does that interfere?
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@zupa Hell I dunno, I don't touch open source bullshit. It just seemed like you were glomming so much crap in your product at least some bits of it had to be GPL.
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@blakeyrat said in Boomla:
@zupa Hell I dunno, I don't touch open source bullshit. It just seemed like you were glomming so much crap in your product at least some bits of it had to be GPL.
thx I'll double check
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@zupa If I'd consider buying your software, I'd have at least the following questions:
- Can I make a back-up of the data and restore it?
- What if an exploitable security leak is found?
- Can we realistically expect to get continued support for a long term and/or is there an easy way to get the data out and adapt the user-written apps to another platform?
An advantage of open-source is that the answer to these questions is generally "yes", because you have the fallback option of doing things yourself or hiring an independent consultant. With closed source, the vendor needs to have convincing answers. Especially for the support thing, big vendors like MS or Oracle have an advantage, simply because they are more likely than a startup to still exist 5 years from now.
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