Software marketing engineer



  • Some time ago I took a job interview. Nothing fancy, until the very end. This job was for a software engineer at some online store - typical programming stuff. The first part was with a technical guy. We've talked and talked, and at some point, the guy invited a woman manager for the second part of the interview. And then something happened, which I don't quite understand. She asked two questions:

    1. In my opinion, what was the biggest change in the e-commerce market in the past few years?
    2. How would I advertise their store to my friends.

    My first thought - are you sure this is an interview for a software engineer? Since I'm not a manager of an online store, how the hell should I know what was the biggest change? I've talked some stuff about the whole process becoming more integrated and efficient, to which she replied: "wrong, it was the mobile!". So, if it the question had a premade answer, why the hell did she ask me about my opinion? And what that's got to do with the job? They're the ones to analyze that shit, and I'm the one to design and implement the solution. Bonus: mobiles stores are shit, compared to the desktop.

    As for the second question - again, what does that have to do with the job? Do their software engineers also work in marketing? At this point I just said "if someone want's to buy shit, I'll tell them you're a store".

    Naturally, they didn't get back. I'm glad.



  • so tell me, while I'm interviewing you, can you give suggestions that I can use to give my manager why I shouldn't be made redundant?



  • @NeighborhoodButcher I'm a software engineer! I shouldn't have to know ANYTHING ELSE EVER except SOFTWARE AND ONLY SOFTWARE! Well-rounded knowledge and skillset? Dumb! Let me talk about really geeky Linux stuff for hours on end! SOFTWARE IS ALL THAT MATTERS!



  • @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    @NeighborhoodButcher I'm a software engineer! I shouldn't have to know ANYTHING ELSE EVER except SOFTWARE AND ONLY SOFTWARE! Well-rounded knowledge and skillset? Dumb! Let me talk about really geeky Linux stuff for hours on end! SOFTWARE IS ALL THAT MATTERS!

    In other words, software engineers should do marketing stuff? Cool story bro.



  • @NeighborhoodButcher You should have the ability for independent thought and be able to engage a person on almost any topic. It's called "being a well-rounded person".



  • @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    @NeighborhoodButcher You should have the ability for independent thought and be able to engage a person on almost any topic. It's called "being a well-rounded person".

    Let me quote myself:

    @NeighborhoodButcher said in Software marketing engineer:

    to which she replied: "wrong, it was the mobile!". So, if it the question had a premade answer, why the hell did she ask me about my opinion?



  • @NeighborhoodButcher Ok so she wasn't a good interviewer. That doesn't change anything I just said.



  • @NeighborhoodButcher said in Software marketing engineer:

    Naturally, they didn't get back. I'm glad.

    This comment epitomises something that's really puzzled me about many of the programmers on this forum.

    Presented with an interview of the type described I would think "Great, this is a company that sees the big picture; that wants its developers to be engaged with the whole process - not just following a narrow, prescribed rule-set."

    Yet so much of the time the narrow approach seems to be exactly what so many devs want. I can't understand this. I went into computer programming because I wanted to solve large complex problems . My career hasn't exactly worked out as planned, but still in my current job, for a small not-for-profit I have huge autonomy in what I do and how I do it. I relish that because it means I can meddle in everything :). Nobody narrowly tells me what to do (because most of IT is a weird arcane world to my boss) but equally it means I must have a really good understanding of what my employer needs (v's says they want).

    Why is that so many in IT appear not to want to engage in anything outside their narrow technical sphere?

    [@NeighborhoodButcher I'm not trying to criticise you, please don't take this comment that way, but I really can't comprehend other's world view - perhaps I'm trwtf]



  • @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    @NeighborhoodButcher Ok so she wasn't a good interviewer. That doesn't change anything I just said.

    What you said has nothing to do with the situation. She had a premade question and expected a specific answer, to which someone outside of e-commerce business, has no chance to know. This wasn't one of those generic question to determine problem solving etc. And those are the ones you seem to be talking about.



  • @NeighborhoodButcher I'm responding to the sheer INDIGNANCE that comes through loud and clear in your post that some NON-DEVELOPER would INSULT your excellency by asking a question that the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD OF DEVELOPERS would consider not development-related. What a disgusting WORM who would insult you so!



  • @japonicus this isn't about seeing the big picture. It's about expecting concrete answers, which aren't related to the skillset required. It's like asking a stock broker about specific methods of connecting wooden parts together. Sure, it would be cool if he knew that, but it isn't related to his job in any way. Therefore, the answer shouldn't determine his ability to do the job. He could be the best broker in the world, but he won't get the job because he doesn't know how to make a wooden table.



  • @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    @NeighborhoodButcher I'm responding to the sheer INDIGNANCE that comes through loud and clear in your post that some NON-DEVELOPER would INSULT your excellency by asking a question that the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD OF DEVELOPERS would consider not development-related. What a disgusting WORM who would insult you so!

    In that case you totally missed the point of the story.



  • @NeighborhoodButcher Yeah well you have to expect that when you're talking to a stupid retard moron like myself.



  • @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    @NeighborhoodButcher Yeah well you have to expect that when you're talking to a stupid retard moron like myself.

    You failed to be ironic. Carry on.



  • @blakeyrat oh okay I see.

    So I expect when one has to get a job as a software engineer in a company that supplies estimating software for construction companies, it's perfectly normal to ask what gravel type is to be used to make a certain road type, eh?



  • @NeighborhoodButcher said in Software marketing engineer:

    Since I'm not a manager of an online store, how the hell should I know what was the biggest change? I've talked some stuff about the whole process becoming more integrated and efficient, to which she replied: "wrong, it was the mobile!"

    On a slightly unrelated note: I've seen this a lot in some education courses, where they treat a very subjective thing that can be approached in many ways or from different perspectives as if it had only one correct response (that you have to memorise because it will be in the test), and I hate it.

    Like saying "cars are divided into three types: red cars, blue cars, and cars of other colors". Ugh.


  • Banned

    @NeighborhoodButcher said in Software marketing engineer:

    So, if it the question had a premade answer, why the hell did she ask me about my opinion?

    Surely that wasn't your opinion. Your opinion is that the biggest change was the mobile. You failed at knowing yourself, and your interviewer has amazing telepathic skills.


  • sockdevs

    @anonymous234 said in Software marketing engineer:

    cars are divided into three types: red cars, blue cars, and cars of other colors

    technically correct

    0_1467487443357_upload-42d4a3bc-afcc-4768-8868-6b7d2b1cdbbc

    yest unhelpful in the extreme.

    ....

    ....

    yeah that sounds like most history courses i know of.



  • @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    It's called "being a well-rounded person".

    Well, I am a rounded person.
    I couldn't agree more! whenever I interview someone I look at their belly, it is a good indicator of how much time they spent behind a computer instead of going to gym.

    @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    Dumb! Let me talk about really geeky Linux stuff for hours on end! SOFTWARE IS ALL THAT MATTERS!

    Exactly!!!!


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @wft said in Software marketing engineer:

    @blakeyrat oh okay I see.

    So I expect when one has to get a job as a software engineer in a company that supplies estimating software for construction companies, it's perfectly normal to ask what gravel type is to be used to make a certain road type, eh?

    It's good to know a bit about the industry you'll be working for, but not really necessary. The question could have been to see if he had an interest beyond the purely tech side, which he failed due to attitude.



  • @Jaloopa said in Software marketing engineer:

    @wft said in Software marketing engineer:

    @blakeyrat oh okay I see.

    So I expect when one has to get a job as a software engineer in a company that supplies estimating software for construction companies, it's perfectly normal to ask what gravel type is to be used to make a certain road type, eh?

    It's good to know a bit about the industry you'll be working for, but not really necessary. The question could have been to see if he had an interest beyond the purely tech side, which he failed due to attitude.

    Except that an honest answer was given, but it didn't match the expected one.



  • @NeighborhoodButcher said in Software marketing engineer:

    Except that an honest answer was given, but it didn't match the expected one.

    To be honest the only legit reason she was not just trolling you is if she wanted to see your reaction. If you had displayed disgust (I probably would have ) you would not be hired. Did you?



  • @Jaloopa Well, I think some common sense can be expected from me about how the world works. But I also expect that my lack of domain knowledge will be filled in by the domain expert, for one thing.

    As for marketing, you know, there's marketing in general, and there's market as understood by the company's marketers, and there is marketing as understood by the company's VP of marketing, which can all be different. You either agree with whatever VP of marketing thinks or you can find yourself another job.

    And there's also an area of responsibility. There's a job description which defines scope of what you are responsible for, and it's these things you should have a firm and well-reasoned opinion about. You're not paid to do marketing, but you must align with marketing in what you do, and it's their job to tell you. We are damn specialists, not your average taxi driver who knows how to run a country (but for reasons unknown sweats at the wheel instead of running for president).



  • @dse said in Software marketing engineer:

    @NeighborhoodButcher said in Software marketing engineer:

    Except that an honest answer was given, but it didn't match the expected one.

    To be honest the only legit reason she was not just trolling you is if she wanted to see your reaction. If you had displayed disgust (I probably would have ) you would not be hired. Did you?

    Well, I got the impression she was legit. Also, I did not express disgust; maybe a bit of surprise.


  • Winner of the 2016 Presidential Election

    @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    @NeighborhoodButcher I'm responding to the sheer INDIGNANCE that comes through loud and clear in your post that some NON-DEVELOPER would INSULT your excellency by asking a question that the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD OF DEVELOPERS would consider not development-related. What a disgusting WORM who would insult you so!

    :person_with_blond_hair_tone2: Hi, I'm here to interview for the job managing your network infrastructure.
    :man: Do you know anything about scones?
    :person_with_blond_hair_tone2: I'm sorry but I don't see how that's relevant to my job position.
    :man: How about Internet marketing; are you familiar with the latest in social media trends?
    :person_with_blond_hair_tone2: No, sir, I've spent the past decade of my life becoming a leading authority on network design, maintenance, and infrastructure. I have 5 Cisco certifications and--
    :man: I'm sorry. We're just looking for someone a little more well-rounded.



  • @wft said in Software marketing engineer:

    So I expect when one has to get a job as a software engineer in a company that supplies estimating software for construction companies, it's perfectly normal to ask what gravel type is to be used to make a certain road type, eh?

    I don't know whether it's normal or not, but I'd expect you to be able to talk intelligently about the question. Even if it's just to say you'd have to defer to an expert.



  • @all_users said in Software marketing engineer:

    so tell me, while I'm interviewing you, can you give suggestions that I can use to give my manager why I shouldn't be made redundant?

    @all_users is a people person! It's right there in his name.



  • @blakeyrat said in Software marketing engineer:

    @wft said in Software marketing engineer:

    So I expect when one has to get a job as a software engineer in a company that supplies estimating software for construction companies, it's perfectly normal to ask what gravel type is to be used to make a certain road type, eh?

    I don't know whether it's normal or not, but I'd expect you to be able to talk intelligently about the question. Even if it's just to say you'd have to defer to an expert.

    And that's why you wouldn't get that job. Do you understand now what's the problem here?


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @japonicus said in Software marketing engineer:

    Presented with an interview of the type described I would think "Great, this is a company that sees the big picture; that wants its developers to be engaged with the whole process - not just following a narrow, prescribed rule-set."

    You really want to work for a company that sets you trick questions and mocks you for not having the psychic powers necessary to figure out the answers?

    No thanks.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @NeighborhoodButcher said in Software marketing engineer:

    I've talked some stuff about the whole process becoming more integrated and efficient, to which she replied: "wrong, it was the mobile!".

    If she'd talked about “social media” then maybe she would have had an arguable point. Not necessarily a correct one, but at least not stupidly wrong. But telling someone that their opinion is wrong… well, her argument style would have worked well on selected threads here…



  • @anonymous234 said in Software marketing engineer:

    Like saying "cars are divided into three types: red cars, blue cars, and cars of other colors". Ugh.

    A friend of mine once told me that his sister had bought a car, and when he asked her what kind, she replied, “A red one.” So yes, cars are divided into types based on colour.


  • Banned

    @FrostCat said in Software marketing engineer:

    You really want to work for a company that sets you trick questions and mocks you for not having the psychic powers necessary to figure out the answers?
    No thanks.

    Dunno how well HR stupidity correlates with the overall company stupidity, but I agree it's a bad signal.


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