Discussion of NodeBB Updates
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
This is like if the Lorax was a lumberjack.
Filed under: Deep cut
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I went to discuss that on the staff category
I feel like these discussions should be more open (but not fully public). Lounge maybe? _TL4?
Agreed. But someone started calling people neo-nazis very publicly.
I'm not accusing you of anything, but your behavior so far today has matched exactly what my experience of dealing with neo-nazis in the fediverse has taught me to look out for.
My behavior of asking you to clarify what you're saying when it's unclear to me? That's bullshit and more bigotry than anyone else was demonstrating in there. Seriously, Ben, you're famous around here for being unclear in your posts.
Lashing out and punishing people for asking homes questions is infinitely more nazi-like than anything I did.
I'd encourage people to also read the Wikipedia article on DARVO (don't worry, it's short) for context.
I'm familiar with that. But you cannot be serious here. I was literally asking you for clarification on making serious accusations. Do you really think that you're above anyone asking you questions?
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
DARVO
Oh, neat. I've experienced that a lot - not here, but in my family and romantic relationships. :straitjacket:
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@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
But when you are personally involved, you don't directly handle the punishments. You let some other staff deal with it
I agree. He's not handling this well and shouldn't be letting emotion cloud his judgement. I'm just trying to explain some of the context that can easily be missed.
I'm pretty sure @Polygeekery does know about Ben's autism, it's been discussed a few times and his comment wouldn't have made much sense without him knowing
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@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar is autistic
First off, I had no idea about that until this post. It may be possible that @polygeekery didn't know either.
@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Polygeekery's comment, in the context and knowing that @ben_lubar is autistic, could definitely be seen as more than just an off colour joke.
I understand that, and knowing the full context now, I kind of understand that ban. But when you are personally involved, you don't directly handle the punishments. You let some other staff deal with it. For example, when I was a mod a few years ago, another member would get drunk and then proceed to harass me on the forum, frequently including very antagonizing comments about my religion. Instead of banning him myself, I made sure the other mods and admins were aware of the problem and let them handle it. If there were other active mods or admins at the time, @ben_lubar should have let someone else handle it. In the current situation, he should have stepped away for a few hours before doing anything.
And removing mod privileges from the only other active mod smacks of making sure that his ban could not be challenged. Which is not exactly an encouraging sign.
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@Benjamin-Hall no mods have been removed recently.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
That is not, by definition, eugenics.
I don’t know anything about this organization and I will take your word for it that they’re bad, so this could potentially be what they mean. But wiping out the “disease” isn’t the same as wiping out the people affected by it. It could be meant that way, but it doesn’t need to be. For example, looking for a miracle cure would fall under the same mission statement.
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@error You might find The Narcissist's Prayer insightful then. But that's way off topic even right now
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@topspin autism is not a disease.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Benjamin-Hall no mods have been removed recently.
You know what he meant. The only
otheractive admin.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Benjamin-Hall no mods have been removed recently.
admins. @boomzilla. Same difference. The ones who could undo your ban (or even look at the reasons by looking at the forum logs). And weasel-wording just makes it worse.
Seriously dude, I'm about this close to permanently signing off, from a forum I greatly enjoy and one with lots of people I've learned lots of stuff from and whom I respect strongly (even those I strongly disagree with) because of your behavior.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
Is this similar to deaf people being against cochlear implants? Or are they talking about a aborting babies with autism? I'm not familiar with the organization and trying to understand the link.
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I'd also like to remind everyone that @Polygeekery has a running joke around him that involves setting people's houses on fire, which seems a bit harsher than supporting, but not actually perpetuating eugenics, but noone's ever had a problem with that.
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@blek said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error You might find The Narcissist's Prayer insightful then. But that's way off topic even right now
This is pretty close to my pro se court defense when sued by a creditor.
The case against was dismissed, and later I got paid in a class action suit against Midland Funding (a company that basically bought debt in lots and then filed lawsuits en masse).
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@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
That is not, by definition, eugenics.
I don’t know anything about this organization and I will take your word for it that they’re bad, so this could potentially be what they mean. But wiping out the “disease” isn’t the same as wiping out the people affected by it. It could be meant that way, but it doesn’t need to be. For example, looking for a miracle cure would fall under the same mission statement.Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin autism is not a disease.
I didn’t say it is. Absolutely far from it. I put it in quotes, because that’s how you explained their view.
I know you’re more logical than to not understand that difference.
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@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin autism is not a disease.
I didn’t say it is. Absolutely far from it. I put it in quotes, because that’s how you explained their view.
I know you’re more logical than to not understand that difference.I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm explaining that Autism Speaks is advocating eugenics.
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@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
So does Parkinsons, MS, Behcets, ALS, and heaps of other diseases.
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@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
That is not, by definition, eugenics.
I don’t know anything about this organization and I will take your word for it that they’re bad, so this could potentially be what they mean. But wiping out the “disease” isn’t the same as wiping out the people affected by it. It could be meant that way, but it doesn’t need to be. For example, looking for a miracle cure would fall under the same mission statement.Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
Trying to forcibly cure that would be bad. But I know a bunch of kids very far on the spectrum who would have jumped at such a "cure". So simply trying to make one available is not advocating genocide. Unless you also advocate forcing everyone to use said cure.
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@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I understand that, and knowing the full context now, I kind of understand that ban.
I don't. I get called a child molester on the forum and , but God forbid you trigger an admin, or they're going to stage a fucking coup and hand out bans like candy.
But when you are personally involved, you don't directly handle the punishments. You let some other staff deal with it.
I certainly wouldn't know, but my impression has always been that Ben doesn't communicate with the staff. Ben does whatever the hell Ben feels like. Reminds me of the public downvote debacle:
@PJH said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Is this where I resign sysadmin and admin roles? Should I add mod to that list?
Seriously, the first time I hear about a major (I enter this thread as evidence) change is where I get @group mentioned?
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@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
That is not, by definition, eugenics.
I don’t know anything about this organization and I will take your word for it that they’re bad, so this could potentially be what they mean. But wiping out the “disease” isn’t the same as wiping out the people affected by it. It could be meant that way, but it doesn’t need to be. For example, looking for a miracle cure would fall under the same mission statement.Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
Is it? What if you could make someone with Down's Syndrome have an adult level intellect? What about bipolar? This seems like huge jump to me, at least when you're talking about people who are severely low functioning.
It seems cruel to not want to help them. I could see refusing treatment if you are high functioning.
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@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
I agree, in principle. That said, I've experienced depression and anxiety for decades, and for a while those things, too, had started to become part of my identity. Antidepressants haven't "cured" me, but both problems are a faint echo of what they once were, and overall, I'm better for it. Though, I do occasionally have this weird urge to indulge the intense sad emotions I used to have all the time. Like I miss it sometimes?
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I want to say a lot of things but I don't think an argument about about eugenics and whether autism is a disease or not is going to be helpful right now...
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@Dragoon said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
So does Parkinsons, MS, Behcets, ALS, and heaps of other diseases.
Fair point. I could have put that better.
The idea of autism being a purely negative thing that needs to be "cured" is also rejected by many autistic people. It results in a different way of thinking about the world and although it can be difficult it also has its benefits. That's would be what distances it from Parkinson's etc.
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@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
That is not, by definition, eugenics.
I don’t know anything about this organization and I will take your word for it that they’re bad, so this could potentially be what they mean. But wiping out the “disease” isn’t the same as wiping out the people affected by it. It could be meant that way, but it doesn’t need to be. For example, looking for a miracle cure would fall under the same mission statement.Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
Is it? What if you could make someone with Down's Syndrome have an adult level intellect? What about bipolar? This seems like huge jump to me, at least when you're talking about people who are severely low functioning.
It seems cruel to not want to help them. I could see refusing treatment if you are high functioning.
Autism Speaks doesn't want to help them. Autism Speaks lobbies against things that will help autistic people. Autism Speaks wants autistic people gone.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
That is not, by definition, eugenics.
I don’t know anything about this organization and I will take your word for it that they’re bad, so this could potentially be what they mean. But wiping out the “disease” isn’t the same as wiping out the people affected by it. It could be meant that way, but it doesn’t need to be. For example, looking for a miracle cure would fall under the same mission statement.Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
Is it? What if you could make someone with Down's Syndrome have an adult level intellect? What about bipolar? This seems like huge jump to me, at least when you're talking about people who are severely low functioning.
It seems cruel to not want to help them. I could see refusing treatment if you are high functioning.
Autism Speaks doesn't want to help them. Autism Speaks lobbies against things that will help autistic people. Autism Speaks wants autistic people gone.
Gone how? Again, I have no knowledge of them so I'm legitimately asking the question here. Like, what do they day should happen to someone diagnosed?
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@boomzilla said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@Jaloopa said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error Autism Speaks treats autism as a disease, and has the intention of "wiping out" autism, which is, by definition, eugenics.
That is not, by definition, eugenics.
I don’t know anything about this organization and I will take your word for it that they’re bad, so this could potentially be what they mean. But wiping out the “disease” isn’t the same as wiping out the people affected by it. It could be meant that way, but it doesn’t need to be. For example, looking for a miracle cure would fall under the same mission statement.Autism, because it's so pervasive in how it affects a person's life, inevitably becomes a large part of an autistic person's identity. Trying to "cure" that would be like trying to "cure" blackness by changing the colour of someone's skin. Just suggesting it is asking for trouble
Is it? What if you could make someone with Down's Syndrome have an adult level intellect? What about bipolar? This seems like huge jump to me, at least when you're talking about people who are severely low functioning.
It seems cruel to not want to help them. I could see refusing treatment if you are high functioning.
Autism Speaks doesn't want to help them. Autism Speaks lobbies against things that will help autistic people. Autism Speaks wants autistic people gone.
Oh, they're lobbyists. Now that fits.
but I remember seeing a long list of lobbying organizations that were all for exactly the opposite of what their names implied, like all the "green" ones being run by coal and oil companies.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin autism is not a disease.
I didn’t say it is. Absolutely far from it. I put it in quotes, because that’s how you explained their view.
I know you’re more logical than to not understand that difference.I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm explaining that Autism Speaks is advocating eugenics.
I can't find anything about them advocating eliminating autism through selective breeding. Do you have a source we can look at?
If they are not trying to eliminate autism by selective breeding, then they are not advocating eugenics. Do you perhaps mean something else?
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I understand that, and knowing the full context now, I kind of understand that ban.
I don't. I get called a child molester on the forum and , but God forbid you trigger an admin, or they're going to stage a fucking coup and hand out bans like candy.
Just because I understand why it happened, does not mean that I agree with the decision.
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@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I understand that, and knowing the full context now, I kind of understand that ban.
I don't. I get called a child molester on the forum and , but God forbid you trigger an admin, or they're going to stage a fucking coup and hand out bans like candy.
I don’t know the incidents you’re talking about, but I assume (maybe wrongly?) that if that seriously upset you and you had reported it, Ben wouldn’t have liked that one either.
But it seems we’re talking about overreaction, not too much leniency, here.
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@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin autism is not a disease.
I didn’t say it is. Absolutely far from it. I put it in quotes, because that’s how you explained their view.
I know you’re more logical than to not understand that difference.I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm explaining that Autism Speaks is advocating eugenics.
I can't find anything about them advocating eliminating autism through selective breeding. Do you have a source we can look at?
If they are not trying to eliminate autism by selective breeding, then they are not advocating eugenics. Do you perhaps mean something else?
We must be using different search engines, because apart from Autism Speaks having a four word statement ("we don't support eugenics") on their site, every single result on Google for
autism speaks eugenics
is relevant.
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@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I understand that, and knowing the full context now, I kind of understand that ban.
I don't. I get called a child molester on the forum and , but God forbid you trigger an admin, or they're going to stage a fucking coup and hand out bans like candy.
I don’t know the incidents you’re talking about, but I assume (maybe wrongly?) that if that seriously upset you and you had reported it, Ben wouldn’t have liked that one either.
He wouldn't have gone off the reservation either. A warning might have been issued. Not the fucking bullshit that's happened tonight.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin autism is not a disease.
I didn’t say it is. Absolutely far from it. I put it in quotes, because that’s how you explained their view.
I know you’re more logical than to not understand that difference.I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm explaining that Autism Speaks is advocating eugenics.
I can't find anything about them advocating eliminating autism through selective breeding. Do you have a source we can look at?
If they are not trying to eliminate autism by selective breeding, then they are not advocating eugenics. Do you perhaps mean something else?
We must be using different search engines, because apart from Autism Speaks having a four word statement ("we don't support eugenics") on their site, every single result on Google for
autism speaks eugenics
is relevant.
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@loopback0 said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@topspin said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@heterodox said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I understand that, and knowing the full context now, I kind of understand that ban.
I don't. I get called a child molester on the forum and , but God forbid you trigger an admin, or they're going to stage a fucking coup and hand out bans like candy.
I don’t know the incidents you’re talking about, but I assume (maybe wrongly?) that if that seriously upset you and you had reported it, Ben wouldn’t have liked that one either.
He wouldn't have gone off the reservation either. A warning might have been issued. Not the fucking bullshit that's happened tonight.
Yeah. Because that's how it's happened every time someone has complained. Even temp bans are really really rare around here, and only for extreme circumstances (or so it seems). Permanent, non-spammer bans... Basically fox. Who had repeated, public warnings, then a temp ban, then sockpuppets, then more temp bans and warnings, then finally a permanent one. And there were still many saying that he shouldn't have been banned.
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@error yep, that looks like what I see
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
And there were still many saying that he shouldn't have been banned.
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@blek said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@abarker Well, I don't think this will actually kill the forums. It might make some of the regulars leave for good, but hopefully they'll swing by one more time so we can establish some other line of communication.
Meh. I'm highly googleable, if anyone cares.
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@sloosecannon said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
It makes you look like a dictator and makes even people who agree with you question things.
It doesn't "look like". Actions clarify "it is".
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@blek said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
because you're angry and you'd rather see it die than continue to permit people you hate to talk
I'm being reminded of a smelly event involving a certain Undertale sequel...
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PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
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@TwelveBaud said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
PSA: The ability to self-service account deletion has been disabled. Deletion requests have to go through the Administration.
that's not a recent change
in fact, I'm not sure if that setting has ever been changed
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I don't know if this has to do with the update or what but I can't resize my composer to less than half the height of the screen
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
@error yep, that looks like what I see
I've done the unthinkable and did the search and read some stuff. You're not covering yourself in glory here. I found no support for your claim about eugenics. By your standards you should probably be banned.
Note that I'm not saying that disagreeing with what the organization isn't legit. But you're talking unsubstantiated shit just like you were in the police thread, which, BTW, you've continued to avoid clarifying other than to act like a dictator.
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@ben_lubar said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
dealing with neo-nazis in the fediverse
You keep saying this. Do you ever deal with them anywhere else? Seems to me it's a black hole that has corrupted your perception of the world a bit...
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@abarker said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
If there were other
activemods or admins atthe timeallSeems to me the balance of power has crumbled.
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@hungrier said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I don't know if this has to do with the update or what but I can't resize my composer to less than half the height of the screen
There seems to be a minimum height for sure.
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@hungrier said in Discussion of NodeBB Updates:
I don't know if this has to do with the update or what but I can't resize my composer to less than half the height of the screen
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Do you think this is an intended bug or one of those unintended ones?
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@ben_lubar I think that "committing an update that changes only this one thing" seems pretty intentional