Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems
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@blakeyrat apparently:
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@ben_lubar Uh. Your great explanation there is a blank grey rectangle.
So I guess the holy blank grey rectangle has decreed that NodeBB behavior is perfectly ok! NO BUGS HERE! THE BLANK GREY RECTANGLE HAS SPOKEN!
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@ben_lubar Uh. Your great explanation there is a blank grey rectangle.
So I guess the holy blank grey rectangle has decreed that NodeBB behavior is perfectly ok! NO BUGS HERE! THE BLANK GREY RECTANGLE HAS SPOKEN!
Check the other tabs, specifically the second and fourth.
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@ben_lubar The other tabs? Of what?
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@ben_lubar Oh, your magical grey rectangle has stuff in it. Wow.
Now are you going to fix the bug or not?
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@blakeyrat What bug? That's exactly what the HTML spec says it should do.
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@ben_lubar Because the HTML spec is our Lord and Savior and the user's common sense is shit to be trampled, because FUCK THE USER THIS IS OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE PRINCIPLE OF LEAST SURPRISE? FUCK THAT FUCK THEM ALL I HATE USERS!
Right?
Great. I'm so glad you're in charge of the bug fixing around here.
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@blakeyrat So what would the fix be (other than adding markdown table syntax support or a wysiwyg editor)? Adding closing tag where they might fit during submitting?
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@aliceif Could we enforce "strict HTML" rules? Outside of XHTML, is there such a thing?
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@blakeyrat are you doubting the HTML spec?
That's blasphemy!
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@aliceif said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
So what would the fix be (other than adding markdown table syntax support or a wysiwyg editor)? Adding closing tag where they might fit during submitting?
Making text at the bottom of the text entry window appear at the bottom of the preview window. Where it belongs.
I mean... it's so basic I didn't even think to type it out. Is that actually what you're asking?
Of course if we weren't using this shitty Markdown bullshit from hell, we'd probably just have an "insert a table" button and this would all be moot. That's the real fix: stop trying to force shitty Markdown on people, it sucks and is awful.
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@blakeyrat And while I'm at it, "zen mode" breaks the site's own infinite scrolling to a remarkable degree. Here's another tip for the NodeBB people: don't create a new feature that serves to demonstrate how buggy your product is.
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@e4tmyl33t It's a button designed to remind you that NodeBB's infinite scrolling gets really fucked up if you hit the fullscreen option in your browser, by doing it for you.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I mean... it's so basic I didn't even think to type it out.
That's where you failed: We can't read your mind, @blakeyrat!
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
it's so basic I didn't even think to type it out
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Of course if we weren't using this shitty Markdown bullshit from hell, we'd probably just have an "insert a table" button and this would all be moot. That's the real fix: stop trying to force shitty Markdown on people, it sucks and is awful.
This has nothing to do with markdown or NodeBB. Text in a
<table>
but not in a<th>
or<td>
doesn't do what you might expect it to. If you don't like that, direct your anger at the W3C.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
How, @ben_lubar , how? How!
I bet it's because you didn't put in a table tag, so it's treated all the text outside the trs specially and pushed it all to a sort of virtual td at the top. I've actually seen that before in other contexts.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Uh. Your great explanation there is a blank grey rectangle.
Click HTML, then click Result, above the box
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@FrostCat I don't have those tabs, I only have the grey rectangle.
I'm not a retard, just a victim of constant bugs of every shape, size, and description.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Making text at the bottom of the text entry window appear at the bottom of the preview window.
Come on, man. This isn't nodebb's fault. Blame the W3C, or put in your own <table></table> tags.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I don't have those tabs, I only have the grey rectangle.
Do you not have the words "JavaScript" "HTML" "CSS" "Result" above the rectangle, like in @ben_lubar's screenshot? That would be weird, if so.
I know they don't look like tabs, but they are clickable. It's, admittedly, a shitty UI.
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@FrostCat I don't have those tabs, I only have the grey rectangle.
Ask me a third time.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I'm not a retard
I didn't say you were. I was just telling you how to see what Ben was trying to show you.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I don't have those tabs
OK, fine. Then look at Ben's screenshot. Or make up a simple little HTML page of your own, entirely outside NodeBB, and you can see the same behavior.
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@FrostCat I've seen the behavior. I don't care; my bug's still a bug.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I don't care; my bug's still a bug.
I'll let your weird definition of "bug" go unchallenged today, but even if it is one, it's the W3C's.
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@FrostCat I don't care if it's God's, I still want it fixed.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I don't care if it's God's, I still want it fixed.
Twit at this guy: https://twitter.com/timberners_lee
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@FrostCat I don't have those tabs, I only have the grey rectangle.
Ask me a third time.
tempting. but I'll pass on the obvious joke.
...
Who am I kidding, I never pass the obvious joke!
"Do you see tabs?"
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
my bug's still a bug.
Yes, is your bug. I didn't read the whole HTML 5 spec on tables, because mobile, but AFAICT, text is not an allowed element in a table, in which case your HTML is syntactically invalid. Furthermore, although the spec defines behavior for some invalid input, I didn't see any specified for the case of invalid element types within the table, in which case you're looking at UB. Enjoy your nasal demons.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@FrostCat I've seen the behavior. I don't care; my bug's still a bug.
What you're saying is that nodebb should reimplement the browser's built in rendering. What could go wrong?
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@boomzilla said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
What could go wrong?
I don't know but it's be b'rat's fault.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
And therefore all rules of time and space go out the window?
If you can't HTML don't try to HTML and then proceed to complain about the results.
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@another_sam said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
And therefore all rules of time and space go out the window?
If you can't HTML don't try to HTML and then proceed to complain about the results.
Writing raw HTML is something normal people shouldn't have to do to post on a forum, though.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
if we weren't using this shitty Markdown bullshit from hell
What does this have to do with Markdown?
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
we'd probably just have an "insert a table" button and this would all be moot
This here is a completely valid complaint, but it's (implying) a feature request, it's not a bug report.
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@aliceif said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Writing raw HTML is something normal people shouldn't have to do to post on a forum, though.
I mostly agree, but it depends on what the "normal people" are trying to post. It's reasonable for the implementor of a forum to say "This here is supported, that other stuff is not but I'll let you use this limited subset of HTML if you like".
Some kinds of formatting aren't even well supported by HTML so it's hard to imagine how users can post that on a forum where the content is delivered by HTML.
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@aliceif said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Writing raw HTML is something normal people shouldn't have to do to post on a forum, though.
On the other hand, nobody here is normal.
I acquired the habit of using raw HTML for formatting to work around Community Server's broken wysiwyg, and neither nor Nude has presented a compelling reason to stop.
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@another_sam said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
This here is a completely valid complaint, but it's (implying) a feature request, it's not a bug report.
Whatever.
I don't give a shit what it is. I just don't want to see the goddamned bug.
It's more a "could we please stop installing really really shitty broken awful software on this forum" request. But now that Ben L's in charge, that'll never happen anyway because he's got all the open sores brainworms and he probably actually thinks NodeBB is good.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@FrostCat I've seen the behavior. I don't care; my bug's still a bug.
The only bug here is the space worm that's burrowed into your brain.
You wrote broken HTML. The browser not magically making it do what you wanted is not the browser's fault.
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@anotherusername Do you think I wanted to write HTML at all?
Fuck you.
If you don't agree with me about the definition of a "bug", then don't read this topic which is exclusively me pointing out bugs. Go slam your forehead against a concrete wall instead. We'd both be better off.
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@another_sam said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
@aliceif said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Writing raw HTML is something normal people shouldn't have to do to post on a forum, though.
I mostly agree, but it depends on what the "normal people" are trying to post. It's reasonable for the implementor of a forum to say "This here is supported, that other stuff is not but I'll let you use this limited subset of HTML if you like".
Some kinds of formatting aren't even well supported by HTML so it's hard to imagine how users can post that on a forum where the content is delivered by HTML.
Still, it'd be nice to have a shorthand format.
Why not something like
<csv> **table header** stuff, more stuff, stuff </csv>
which automatically becomes
<table> <tr><td colspan="3"><strong>table header</strong></td></tr> <tr><td>stuff</td><td>more stuff</td><td>stuff</td></tr> </table>
(...rows with fewer columns would just have the last cell extended with
colspan
.)
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
Do you think I wanted to write HTML at all?
Clearly not; the lack of a WYSIWYG editor is a reasonable, if rather worn-out, complaint. However, complaining about the browser's behavior when you wrote invalid HTML — not so much. AFAICT from a quick skim of the spec yesterday, you're in nasal demon territory; the browser could have replaced your entire post with a GIF of your mamma being raped by the Seven Dwarves and still have been compliant. (Or even worse, a GIF of your mamma playing Dwarf Fortress.)
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
this topic which is exclusively me pointing out bugs
Not strictly true. It is also us telling you that you're wrong.
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@HardwareGeek said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
AFAICT from a quick skim of the spec yesterday, you're in nasal demon territory; the browser could have replaced your entire post with
Spec this spec that the spec says bow before the spec spec spec spec epspsepsepsal hruikaq h234rQ& $49!&9@!
Fuck off.
I am not a HTML parser, the spec has absolutely no relevance to me or this bug, so fuck off with that shit.
I am a fucking human being. What I meant was OBVIOUS. The computer misinterpreting it was in defiance of all my expectations. It was being fucking stupid. I do not like stupid machines. I do not like my expectations being shat on. I do not like experiencing bugs.
"Hey could you put this box behind that other box?" "You mean in front of right?" "No, I said behind." "Yeah but you meant in front of." "Behind, I said behind like three times now." "I'll just put it in front."
THAT is what the browser is doing. If a human did that I would punch them in the nose. It's not ok for a human or a browser to be that fucking stupid. Not ok.
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@blakeyrat are you one of those people that blames the compiler when it gives errors for invalid code
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@bb36e Depends on how stupid the error is.
If it's Visual Studio and giving me that error that says, "a process with PID 3642 doesn't exist", then you're damn well right I complain.
I would also say good computer languages (like C#) generally don't have bits where it's obvious what the coder meant but the compiler returns an error anyway. That's for badly-designed languages. (Now when you dive deep into templates, sometimes you get in a situation like that, I admit, but generally speaking C# is nice and clear at communicating developer intent.)
In any case, I'M NOT FUCKING DEVELOPING SOFTWARE RIGHT NOW. I'M TRYING TO TYPE TEXT INTO A FORUM, SPECIFICALLY A TABLE. That's not the same fucking thing. That's a thing we expect grandmas to be able to do. Or people who just migrated here from Elbownia. Of course they can't, because web software has been put under the influence of morons who think Markdown is a pretty good idea, because they're fucking RETARDS who have no idea how normal people think.
And I'm pissed you were able to deflect me like that for two paragraphs, because it means I'M becoming one of those retards too by spending too much time around retards like you and not enough time around normal people. Fuck IT.
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@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
The computer misinterpreting it was in defiance of all my expectations.
Maybe, just maybe, your expectations are incorrect.
@blakeyrat said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
I do not like stupid machines.
So you want computers to be smarter than you? "Welcome, Skynet!"
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@HardwareGeek said in Blakeyrat pointing out NodeBB problems:
So you want computers to be smarter than you?
You bet your ass.
I at least want them to not be stupid. That's not the same thing.
It'd be nice to express the idea "I want a 3x4 table" without having to type 200 characters of error-prone computer gibberish, for example.