Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.
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@accalia I used a white sticker and painted it with a blue pen
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Finally, somebody made Micro-Soft pay for forced-upgrade
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I don't understand, she claims the upgrade failed so that means she should have still been running the original operating system during the time that it was slow. What does the Windows 10 upgrade have to do with a not-Windows-10 operating system being slow?
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@LB_ From the article:
Instead, the computer she uses to run her Sausalito, Calif., travel-agency business slowed to a crawl. It would crash, she says, and be unusable for days at a time.
So the failed update broke what was a perfectly usable computer.
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@TimeBandit That's what I said I don't understand.
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@LB_ Windows Update has several failure modes that involve it achieving nothing apart from consuming 100% CPU for hours on end. If it does that on a single-core Celeron, the machine becomes almost completely unusable.
The larger the individual packages that WU is attempting to download, the higher the chance that it will hit one of those failure modes. Windows 10 is multiple gigabytes.
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@TimeBandit said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@LB_ From the article:
Instead, the computer she uses to run her Sausalito, Calif., travel-agency business slowed to a crawl. It would crash, she says, and be unusable for days at a time.
So the failed update allegedly broke what was allegedly a perfectly usable computer.
Or she just cleverly figured out a way to get MS to buy her a new computer...
@flabdablet said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@LB_ Windows Update has several failure modes that involve it achieving nothing apart from consuming 100% CPU for hours on end. If it does that on a single-core Celeron, the machine becomes almost completely unusable.
The larger the individual packages that WU is attempting to download, the higher the chance that it will hit one of those failure modes. Windows 10 is multiple gigabytes.
I'd think MS support might be able to figure out how to unstick a stuck MS update. They have the google on their internets, right?
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@anotherusername said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
I'd think MS support might be able to figure out how to unstick a stuck MS update. They have the google on their internets, right?
By company policy, they are stuck using only Bing, that alone explains their failure ;)
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@anotherusername hello, please try going to Windows Update > cancel. if this does not resolve your issue, please try restarting your computer. please revert back if you are having any issues after this.
bb36e, Certified MSDN Support Technician
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@anotherusername hello, please mark this answer as solution if it is correct for u. thx
bb36e, Certified MSDN Support Technician
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It only took them 11 month !
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@TimeBandit Yup, I was about to post this.
I'd be curious to know if Microsoft managers internally think this push was a good idea overall.
Considering what we know about them, they are probably like: "Hey, it brought like 10,000 new users, that one little lawsuit is totally worth it!" Not realizing Windows 10 has probably lost any chance at being considered the "next good Windows", which it was originally aiming at.
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@flabdablet said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@LB_ Windows Update has several failure modes that involve it achieving nothing apart from consuming 100% CPU for hours on end.
Those are neat, but my favorite failure is the reboot loop after it decides to fill your entire boot drive with error logs. That was "fun" to undo. :(
PS: you didn't really need those restore points, did you? I need more room for logs.
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@cartman82 said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
probably lost any chance at being considered the "next good Windows",
All the people whining about how not everything is a phone probably already took care of that.
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With the upcoming service pack for Windows 7, 8 and 8.1, improvements to the System.Windows.Forms.dll mean that the style of messagebox will be altered slightly. The exact same code:
MessageBox.Show("Please click OK.");
Will produce this slightly altered dialog.
LOL
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@anotherusername said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
LP0 ON FIRE message
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Oh, and remember what I said here?
@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
An hilariously bad thing about Microsoft Edge is that there is no option to "always ask where I want to download the file". They actually removed this feature from late IE versions, and never put it in Edge.
Which has the side-effect of making drive-by download attacks much easier, since all files can now be downloaded without user confirmation!
I actually submitted it as a bug like yesterday. Whithin a day is was closed as "by design" and deleted. Microsoft actually wants Edge to be vulnerable!
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@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
Whithin a day is was closed as "by design" and deleted. Microsoft actually wants Edge to be vulnerable!
Does work at Microsoft now?
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@Medinoc Hey, the Chrome way seems to have won in general. They're just following along I guess.
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@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
Oh, and remember what I said here?
@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
An hilariously bad thing about Microsoft Edge is that there is no option to "always ask where I want to download the file". They actually removed this feature from late IE versions, and never put it in Edge.
Which has the side-effect of making drive-by download attacks much easier, since all files can now be downloaded without user confirmation!
I actually submitted it as a bug like yesterday. Whithin a day is was closed as "by design" and deleted. Microsoft actually wants Edge to be vulnerable!
Yeah, looking through the Hololens API and I noticed there's basically no direct access to the filesystem. I went and checked: universal Windows applications aren't supposed to do that, but instead use providers "like Onedrive" to store and retrieve sharable data (like Word documents etc).
I'm going to try and see if there's a way out of this sandbox, but in this way it seems they're serious...
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@Magus said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Medinoc Hey, the Chrome way seems to have won in general. They're just following along I guess.
Nope.
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@boomzilla said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Magus said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Medinoc Hey, the Chrome way seems to have won in general. They're just following along I guess.
Nope.
note though, that that checkbox does default to unchecked.
chrome does of course give you the option to check it.... they're not that stupid.... but thy'd be smarter to default it to being checked.
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@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
They actually removed this feature from late IE versions
In the version I have on my work pc on win 7 you get the choice of save, save as or run
/open. Pretty sure it's ie11
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
Yeah, looking through the Hololens API and I noticed there's basically no direct access to the filesystem. I went and checked: universal Windows applications aren't supposed to do that, but instead use providers "like Onedrive" to store and retrieve sharable data (like Word documents etc).
I'm going to try and see if there's a way out of this sandbox, but in this way it seems they're serious...
IMO apps should never have raw file system access except for when explicitly granted by the user. But so far all the major operating systems don't work even remotely like this.
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@LB_ said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
Yeah, looking through the Hololens API and I noticed there's basically no direct access to the filesystem. I went and checked: universal Windows applications aren't supposed to do that, but instead use providers "like Onedrive" to store and retrieve sharable data (like Word documents etc).
I'm going to try and see if there's a way out of this sandbox, but in this way it seems they're serious...
IMO apps should never have raw file system access except for when explicitly granted by the user. But so far all the major operating systems don't work even remotely like this.
I would almost agree, except when you need to work with files. For example, File Explorer/Manager.
With Android 5+ we have Storage Access Framework, which is kinda crappy and doesn't actually work all that well, but it's closer to what you have in mind I think...
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@LB_ said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
IMO apps should never have raw file system access except for when explicitly granted by the user. But so far all the major operating systems don't work even remotely like this.
Boomla!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
instead use providers "like Onedrive" to store and retrieve sharable data
Why don't we just run the app in the cloud along with the data? That way the user doesn't need to worry about downloading it
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@bb36e said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
instead use providers "like Onedrive" to store and retrieve sharable data
Why don't we just run the app in the cloud along with the data? That way the user doesn't need to worry about downloading it
You joke, but one of the first apps I'm going to try developing for Hololens is a client for Riftcat's VRidge, which essentially streams a video stream to and control info from the client from a gaming rig running a typical VR-enabled game.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
I'm going to try and see if there's a way out of this sandbox, but in this way it seems they're serious...
There are ways, but it's encouraged not to use them. But you're in my respository! Look at the visual novel editor! I figured it out there!
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@Magus said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
But you're in my respository! Look at the visual novel editor! I figured it out there!
Aye, Haven't dug through the code a bunch yet.
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@Tsaukpaetra It can be a pain since everything has to be asynchronous, but now you have an example! Go and create great things!
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@LB_ said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Tsaukpaetra said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
Yeah, looking through the Hololens API and I noticed there's basically no direct access to the filesystem. I went and checked: universal Windows applications aren't supposed to do that, but instead use providers "like Onedrive" to store and retrieve sharable data (like Word documents etc).
I'm going to try and see if there's a way out of this sandbox, but in this way it seems they're serious...
IMO apps should never have raw file system access except for when explicitly granted by the user. But so far all the major operating systems don't work even remotely like this.
The Code Access Security model in .Net actually has provisions for this: The OpenFileDialog and SaveFileDialog classes offer methods to open the user-selected file, commanded a different access right from other file opening methods.
Anyway, dicking around on the Internet, I found a page for enabling IE-Style "choose between Save and SaveAs" in Edge. The first method consisted in activating a checkbox that's not actually there in the "regular" version of Edge (quite unhelpful). Fortunately, the second method on the page involves a registry key:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Classes\Local Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\AppContainer\Storage\microsoft.microsoftedge_8wekyb3d8bbwe\MicrosoftEdge\Download
And a DWORD value:
EnableSavePrompt = 1
This appears to work on at least the Edge installed on my Windows 10, despite the lack of checkbox.
PS: By the way, I'd also like to draw attention to the discoursistent naming conventions in the AppContainer\Storage key: For most Microsoft software the name is
microsoft.somename_somecode
, but for Edge and Office it'smicrosoft.microsoftsomename_somecode
instead.
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@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
PS: By the way, I'd also like to draw attention to the discoursistent naming conventions in the AppContainer\Storage key: For most Microsoft software the name is
microsoft.somename_somecode
, but for Edge and Office it'smicrosoft.microsoftsomename_somecode
instead.Microsoft's Microsoft Office is indeed called Microsoft Office, and Microsoft's Microsoft Edge is called Microsoft Edge. Why is that surprising to you?
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@Medinoc Did you reply to the wrong person? Sounds like you meant to reply to the conversation about Edge prompting where to save downloads, which I was not a part of.
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@boomzilla said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Magus said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Medinoc Hey, the Chrome way seems to have won in general. They're just following along I guess.
Nope.
Funny you should mention that
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@Tsaukpaetra what sort of frame rate/resolution would you need for that?
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@LB_ said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
But so far all the major operating systems don't work even remotely like this.
...except UWPs. Which, admittedly, are a new thing.
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@bb36e said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Tsaukpaetra what sort of frame rate/resolution would you need for that?
Apparently double-hd at 60 fps.
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@FrostCat Honestly, I think the UWP system is designed really well. People complain, but it's not even forced fullscreen anymore, and has DirectX12.
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@Magus said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@FrostCat Honestly, I think the UWP system is designed really well. People complain, but it's not even forced fullscreen anymore, and has DirectX12.
Well, except on the HoloLens. There you get one-size-fits-all mania, no matter how large or small you actually make the window. And the "Zoom" tool doesn't actually work with most apps...
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@LB_ said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
@Medinoc Did you reply to the wrong person? Sounds like you meant to reply to the conversation about Edge prompting where to save downloads, which I was not a part of.
The first paragraph of my post was for you. I should probably have made two separate posts.
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@LB_ said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
IMO apps should never have raw file system access except for when explicitly granted by the user.
That's a good idea in principle, but you end up with SELinux, which is a pain in the butt when the default config works fine. $Deity have mercy if you need to write your own rules or have a file that needs to be accessed by multiple programs
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@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
I should probably have made two separate posts.
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@FrostCat said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
Funny you should mention that
This is what I meant by "checkbox that's not actually there in the 'regular' version of Edge". The page I found had a similar screenshot, but when I looked into Edge's advanced settings on my machine, this checkbox (for lack of a better word) was nowhere to be found. Thankfully, the registry key works anyway.
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@FrostCat Is that screenshot from an insider build? I can't even find the header "Downloads" anywhere in my Edge settings on 10586.420
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@Medinoc said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
when I looked into Edge's advanced settings on my machine, this checkbox (for lack of a better word) was nowhere to be found.
Weird. Maybe you're not on Insider Previews and this was added in one?
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@LB_ said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
Is that screenshot from an insider build? I can't even find the header "Downloads" anywhere in my Edge settings on 10586.420
Yes, and I don't see it in my laptop that doesn't have insider previews. So, that probably means you'll all get it next month.
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@FrostCat said in Pressure to upgrade to Windows 10 ratchets up. AGAIN.:
So, that probably means you'll all get it next month.
Microsoft Edge : slowly bringing features that have been in every browser since the turn of the century.
Example : Firefox 1.0 (released in 2004)
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The bet is that if you bring your old PC to an Answer Desk at a Microsoft Store, they will take care of the upgrade process for your for free, and have your computer ready by the end of the day. If your computer isn’t ready by the end of the day, then you get a free Dell Inspiron 15.
If your PC isn’t compatible, you can recycle it for a $150 credit towards a new PC. And you also get $20 off Office 365 Home when you upgrade to Windows 10. Finally, Microsoft’s announcement mentions there is a chance to win an Xbox One when upgrading in store, but you have to ask a store associate.
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@Zecc hmm...I wonder if there's an easy way to sabotage the install process...