:beers: The Beer Topic
-
@mrl said in
The Beer Topic:It's also beneficial for those who don't like high bitterness - they know to stay away.
It's enough for us to see the letters IPA
-
@mrl said in
The Beer Topic:Still, I agree with you, advertising beer on that is about as stupid as advertising beer on alcohol level. Given that the latter has been going on for decades, I would guess that the former is likely to go on for about as long.
Why is it stupid? I don't get it.
Well, not necessarily stupid, but IMO it's teaching the wrong thing to people, like putting some of the most arcane CPU characteristics up front. It might matter for a few technical people, but not really for the vast majority, and distracts for more relevant information.
There are people who like very bitter beer, you advertise to them, so they know your beer is something they may like. It's also beneficial for those who don't like high bitterness - they know to stay away.
But you don't need the actual number, you just need to know that it's a bitter one (and there are usually clues in the name, in the old days a "bitter" would tell you that, nowadays they're all called IPA or variations of that but that's basically the only thing you need to know). Whether it's 100 or 120 IBU will not change much in the taste -- or rather, what it will change depends so much on the rest of the beer that you can't really compare directly (case in point: Mikkeller brews (brewed?) a 1000 IBU beer, and if the IBU scale was directly linked to taste, it should be undrinkable, but it isn't because the IBU rating is only a small part of the taste. I'm pretty sure I've brewed beers that were bitter to the point of being undrinkable, and they probably never went above a couple of 100's IBU).
So at this point, it gets to who's got the biggest (IBU rating), and if you buy your beer based on that, well, I'll call you stupid because you're just after the number and not the taste.
Some more technical discussion of that on Wikipedia:
"After around 100 IBU, hop utilization is so poor that the number ceases to be meaningful in regard to taste, although continued hop additions will increase bitterness."And that page also has many other measurements, most of which you don't see on the beers, for the same reason: they are mostly meaningless to a consumer (not to a brewer, of course!), or irrelevant to the taste bordering on the misleading. Or all of that at the same time.
Another case in point about all these measurements: some beers touts themselves as the "strongest" in the world, using not the alcohol scale as you might expect, but some other more fanciful scales (maybe density, but I'm not sure because one of those that I remember is EKU 28 and 28 definitely isn't a very high density, unless it's on some unusual scale) that don't mean anything to drinkers. See also the double/triple/quadruple, or the XXX, or 60-/70-/80-/... in Scotland: these might have had a precise meaning at some point (or even an imprecise meaning), nowadays they've become pure marketing fluff if you buy a beer just because it has one of those on the label, that's also stupid.
And it's completely different from advertising high alcohol level ("you'll get drunk quickly!"), here it's about taste.
True. But while it's not entirely unrelated to taste, it's such a limited indication that it really shouldn't be listed as such, and shouldn't be used by consumers to pick their beers.
-
@remi said in
The Beer Topic:Some more technical discussion of that on Wikipedia:
Ah, so that's why I hate IPAs but like wheat beers. They're on opposite ends of the scale. TIL.
-
@mott555 Yeah, but you might like trappist beers (Chimay, Orval...) or barley wines, even though they might have similar IBU (bitterness) ratings as IPAs. But the taste is extremely different and actually the bitterness isn't really perceptible in those (because of the high sugar/alcohol content -- these tend to cancel out with bitterness, so you could regard it the other way round and say that these beers have got a high IBU rating because that's what needed to not make them too sweet or taste too strongly of alcohol).
At the other end of the scale, lambics also have tiny IBU ratings, but again they taste radically different from e.g. wheat beers.
-
@remi said in
The Beer Topic:Well, not necessarily stupid, but IMO it's teaching the wrong thing to people, like putting some of the most arcane CPU characteristics up front. It might matter for a few technical people, but not really for the vast majority, and distracts for more relevant information.
IBU is not arcane knowledge or complicated and it does matter for the customers. It doesn't matter for common lager drinkers, but it doesn't bother them anyway - they drink lagers.
There are people who like very bitter beer, you advertise to them, so they know your beer is something they may like. It's also beneficial for those who don't like high bitterness - they know to stay away.
But you don't need the actual number, you just need to know that it's a bitter one [...]
Bitter may mean a lot of things. There is a huge difference between IBU 30, 60 and 120.
So at this point, it gets to who's got the biggest (IBU rating), and if you buy your beer based on that, well, I'll call you stupid because you're just after the number and not the taste.
I don't see any race towards highest possible IBU around here. We mostly have beers within 0-200, and in those boundaries taste varies greatly (well let's say up to 120).
True. But while it's not entirely unrelated to taste, it's such a limited indication that it really shouldn't be listed as such, and shouldn't be used by consumers to pick their beers.
Should/shouldn't doesn't really matter here. Consumers like it, so producers advertise it.
-
@mrl said in
The Beer Topic:@remi said in
The Beer Topic:Well, not necessarily stupid, but IMO it's teaching the wrong thing to people, like putting some of the most arcane CPU characteristics up front. It might matter for a few technical people, but not really for the vast majority, and distracts for more relevant information.
IBU is not arcane knowledge or complicated
Have you read the relevant section on the Wiki page I linked earlier? Really, if you need to dig down into the chemical composition of one ingredient of your beer to get an idea of what this is, and there are different methods of measuring it that yield significant differences, it's not simple stuff. But OK, let's roll with this, it's not complicated.
and it does matter for the customers.
...for the wrong reasons. They've be trained to recognize IBU as "how bitter the beer will be", but that is entirely wrong, because perceived bitterness depends on a lot of other things. Again, read the Wiki page, it does a good job of pointing a few of the limitations of the IBU scale.
That's like mentioning the size of the computer case and using that as a proxy to the power of the CPU. It might work in very first approximation, as in a tablet (tiny case) is usually less powerful than a gaming rig (huge case), with laptops in between. But it really is an awful measure of the power of the computer. But that's what we get with IBU. Something that is related to how we perceive the bitterness of the beer, but in such a distant way that it's useless in a lot of cases, and may even be misleading.
But you don't need the actual number, you just need to know that it's a bitter one [...]
Bitter may mean a lot of things.
So far so good...
There is a huge difference between IBU 30, 60 and 120.
... and then we go straight out of tracks. There may, or may not, be such a huge difference between beers with different IBUs, depending on the other ingredients. They may actually end up pretty similar, depending how other things balance out. Two IPAs with wildly different IBU values (and I'm not talking about 1000 IBU here) may taste pretty similar, much more than two IPAs with the same IBU but different [other things]. On the other hand, beers with the same IBU may be in totally different worlds (like I mentioned earlier, lambics/wheat beers, or IPAs/barley wines are pairs of styles with the same IBU but huge differences).
So at this point, it gets to who's got the biggest (IBU rating), and if you buy your beer based on that, well, I'll call you stupid because you're just after the number and not the taste.
I don't see any race towards highest possible IBU around here.
Not all breweries do it, but some do, and that's feeding the overall cult of IBU. (Mikkeller's 1000 IBU is a typical example of that -- note that if you ever come across it, give it a taste, it's pretty good! Actually, all Mikkeller's beers are pretty good...)
We mostly have beers within 0-200, and in those boundaries taste varies greatly (well let's say up to 120).
True, but if you believe that the main reason they differ is because of the IBU rating, then you don't understand brewing/tasting. They differ because of many things, the bitterness is just one tiny component of those.
Let me ask you this in another way: if you worry so much about IBU, you should also worry about the proportions of the various malts (in particular how much barley vs. other cereals), the EBC of the beer, the protein level, the yeast strain and so on. Do you want all those numbers on the label? Do you think most consumers want to see 10 different numbers on the label and would read and understand that many information? If you think that would be too much, why do you think the IBU should stand out more than any of those other numbers?
Should/shouldn't doesn't really matter here. Consumers like it, so producers advertise it.
No. What consumers "like" is in part what they've been taught they "should" like, and educating consumers definitely is a thing.
I'm not saying we should ban IBU ratings or similar nonsense, of course if brewers want to mention them they can do whatever they like. I am, however, saying that someone who considers the IBU rating as anything more than a very broad and very vague indication of one aspect of how the beer may taste like, is at best misguided, at worst stupid.
-
-
@remi said in
The Beer Topic:trappist beers
Those definitely have a swwet touch, just like most dark abbey beers
-
@luhmann said in
The Beer Topic:Lambic can be nice ... as a base for a different beer
Yes, as the base for gueuze :-P
-
Getting readdy for
with
can 
-
@luhmann
Should do this more often ... nice beer and 0-2 
-
Stupid
... Winning the world cup but there is some serious work on your beer taste ...
-
@Luhmann correct, that is appropriate sports-beer but should be canned.
-
@Gribnit
I fail to see what difference the horse piss container makes.
-
@Luhmann I have so far also failed by not wanting to find out, but
It Is Said. And horse-pisses are appropriate sporting beers.
-
@Gribnit
Even if horse piss is appropriate as a sports beer it is irrelevant because this is a small French town having a dance-off or something ... I need more booze for further investigation ...
-
@Luhmann I think Chimay is your friend here. I know of no actual French beers whatsoever. If you can find it, Duvel.
Edit: whoever makes Fin Du Monde and etc. are declared honorarily B*****n and not French.
-
@Gribnit said in
The Beer Topic:actual French beers
Kronenbourg, although Kronenbourg 1664 is worse than Heineken.
-
@loopback0 I'm counting that as German, there is only one French letter in the entire name.
-
@Gribnit
Chimay is always your friend
-
@Luhmann But it isn't French (which of course you already know)...
@Gribnit said in
The Beer Topic:I know of no actual French beers whatsoever.
"3 monts" or Goudale are fairly easy to find and are reasonable. Nowadays, any supermarket will have a couple of locally-produced beers, either in the beers section or in the "regional products" one (or both). Some of those can be found a bit more widely around, such as Pietra (from Corsica) or Lancelot (Brittany). Most of these beers are OK, although a lot of them are very similar and not very distinctive. The fad of IPA is starting to gain ground as well, but again, most of them are really pretty tame.
-
Getting very fond of Bitburger while I'm here in Germany. Very light and crisp pilsner. Goes great mit Bratwurst und currysahn:
-
America’s only remaining Blockbuster store gets its own beer
If there was ever a beer that could encapsulate the feeling of being a weird tween dragged to the movie-rental store and forced to compromise with your sniveling little brother on a “family comedy” because you’re too lamely prepubescent to have plans on a Friday night, this is that beer. The Last...
-
-
Pumpkin IPAs are not that great, true.
-
Decisions ... decisions ...
First chimay or first the ename?
-
@Luhmann Chimay, duh.
-
@loopback0
Oeps ...
-
@Luhmann Don't they typically recommend in order of increasing alcohol content?
-
@Luhmann get a really big glass and mix them together. Add a straw for an even classier drinking experience
-
@Jaloopa said in
The Beer Topic:a really big glass
dude everybody knows 
can only be savoured from the corresponding
-
Choice problem: stepped in a random restaurant. It has a separate beer card with 60+ choices
-
@Luhmann Divide and conquer, in the US you can discard half the menu immediately because it is Yet More Overhopped Garbage.
-
@Gribnit
That only removes 10, throw away the fruity beers still leaves me with 40 choices
-
@Luhmann I would be having an easier time because I am looking for sours. Perhaps there are acceptable darks?
-
-
@loopback0
Don't worry, I gave them to the wife
-
@Gribnit
20 something choices left
-
@Luhmann Does anything come in a jeroboam?
-
@Luhmann You've been contemplating the beer card for over an hour already?
Have you tried any in the meantime?
And how does the wife like you reading forums while in the restaurant?
-
@Luhmann said in
The Beer Topic:@Gribnit
20 something choices leftA different interpretation: Did you drink 20 bears in an hour's time? Do Belgians consider this a grand accomplishment or a travesty?
-
-
@PleegWat said in
The Beer Topic:@Luhmann said in
The Beer Topic:@Gribnit
20 something choices leftA different interpretation: Did you drink 20 bears in an hour's time? Do Belgians consider this a grand accomplishment or a travesty?
It could also be a normal day...
-
@PleegWat said in
The Beer Topic:And how does the wife like you reading forums while in the restaurant?
I just pretend to post food pictures to Instagram
-
@PleegWat
Generally they are consumed slowly
-
@PleegWat said in
The Beer Topic:Have you tried any in the meantime?
Took a Delirium Tremens ... Seeing pink elephants
-
@Luhmann
Have the polished wiki because there doesn't seem to be an English version
-
@Luhmann said in
The Beer Topic:Have the polished wiki because there doesn't seem to be an English version
Tremens is good though.
-
@loopback0 I can also recommend "Fin du Monde" as a good last beer.
-
@Luhmann
I still have two of those glasses left. Had six but... elephants are clumsy, especially the pink ones.
Delirium Tremens (piwo) – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia
