In other news today...
-
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
https://www.cnet.com/culture/entertainment/features/inside-the-dying-art-of-subtitling/
For example, 72% of Netflix's American viewers said they prefer dubs when watching Spanish hit Money Heist, Netflix's third most popular show ever.
Well, those people are wrong.
Hell, I use subtitles even when watching shows in English. Prefer to read as I find it quicker than the person talking. Plus if they say something I don't understand because it is quiet or mumbled I can just read the subs.
-
@DogsB said in In other news today...:
The Dutch are kicking up about that too. It may be in a garage thread somewhere.
We're well on the way to a farmer's revolt.
-
@Lathun said in In other news today...:
Plus if they say something I don't understand because it is quiet or mumbled I can just read the subs.
This also helps when going a bit deaf.
-
@Lathun said in In other news today...:
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
https://www.cnet.com/culture/entertainment/features/inside-the-dying-art-of-subtitling/
For example, 72% of Netflix's American viewers said they prefer dubs when watching Spanish hit Money Heist, Netflix's third most popular show ever.
Well, those people are wrong.
Hell, I use subtitles even when watching shows in English. Prefer to read as I find it quicker than the person talking. Plus if they say something I don't understand because it is quiet or mumbled I can just read the subs.
I do volunteer transcription for a YouTube channel I fanatically follow, and even understanding what the English-speaking people in the video are saying can be daunting, not to say anything about getting the subtitle timing right (if the presenter or voice-over goes off script then you can get areas where a buch of text is spoken in one short rush, and then have awkward pauses where you can't place a subtitle while they're thinking about the next thing to say).
It's not at all surprising that when media companies pay peanuts for translated subtitling work on short order that they get sub-par results.
-
Posting a report of a bomb while boarding a plane does not make a good practical joke. In addition to criminal charges, the dumb 18 year-old may have to pay the cost of scrambling the F-18, the cost of the police operation on the ground, and maybe even the cost of the delays to multiple other flights he caused. Not a good way to spend spring break. Edit: Oh, yeah; he's likely to be placed on airline (if not also government) no-fly lists, so he may face great difficulty in traveling anywhere ever again.
-
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
he may face great difficulty in traveling anywhere ever again.
Well, he has the advantage of living in Europe. Long-distance rail is more of a thing than it is in the states.
-
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
he may face great difficulty in traveling anywhere ever again.
Well, he has the advantage of living in Europe. Long-distance rail is more of a thing than it is in the states.
Yeah, our long distance lines would wrap around Europe several times. Oh, you mean you have more trains/scheduling. Yeah, gotta give you that one...
-
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
https://www.cnet.com/culture/entertainment/features/inside-the-dying-art-of-subtitling/
For example, 72% of Netflix's American viewers said they prefer dubs when watching Spanish hit Money Heist, Netflix's third most popular show ever.
Well, those people are wrong.
No, it’s the subtitles that are wrong.
Literally. For fucking everything. I can’t believe how hard it apparently is not to fuck up the subtitles for. Every. Single. Movie.Except Stranger Things. Those go out of their way to describe every little music / sound bit in detail. (Which I don’t care about, I don’t need subs for the hearing impaired, but that’s the only option.)
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
I can’t believe how hard it apparently is not to fuck up the subtitles for.
Subtitles (well translation based ones anyway) are actually quite a challenge:
-
nerdsniped
More total rail, but not that much more. EU has more railway per square kilometer but US has more railway per population. EU has way more electrified but I'm sure you're going to discount that one.
And high-speed rail is not a competition. Largest European country on the list is Spain, with 6 times as much high-speed rail as the US
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
No, it’s the subtitles that are wrong.
I like watching subtitled movies that are in languages I know a little of. I'm not fluent enough in any language, other than English, to actually follow the plot of the movie in whatever language, but I can pick up words and phrases here and there, sometimes enough to think, "That's not what he/she said!"
-
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
@topspin said in In other news today...:
I can’t believe how hard it apparently is not to fuck up the subtitles for.
Subtitles (well translation based ones anyway) are actually quite a challenge:
I’ve read that some time ago when Seinfeld came up and how it didn’t do well here. It’s long, so I’m not reading it all again, just scanned it briefly.
I get that dubbing can be quite challenging, especially with lip-syncing. Our dubs here are usually pretty good, not one Russian dude dubbing every single character. But the subs, what’s the problem? Just put up the words on the screen that are actually said, roughly at the correct time. But noooo… most of the time it has like half the right words and half of some random replacements. Sometimes it’s completely different sentences.And I’m not talking about translations, but the difference between English dialog and the English subs, or German (translated) dialog and German subs.
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
And I’m not talking about translations, but the difference between English dialog and the English subs, or German (translated) dialog and German subs.
The script is often used as the base for subtitles. The script and screen can differ by a lot, If the meaning isn't sufficiently different they often don't get changed. Additionally, there is a guideline for subtitle size and speed and if the dialogue is going to exceed that they will usually opt for a more streamlined version of the words.
There is also a lot of automation (especially in TV) so you will see a lot of AI transcript errors. Even when it is human you can get a lot of https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mondegreen
I have also seen the subtitle correction, where the original scene said something incorrectly (a date for an event for example) and the subtitles will have the correct date. Whether this is an actual correction or the above "scripted" version I have no idea, but it does occur.
At the end of the day it all boils down to money, there is very little money in accurately providing them. So a '80% correct lets ship it' mentality is all to real. I don't see this ever changing either.
-
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
@topspin said in In other news today...:
And I’m not talking about translations, but the difference between English dialog and the English subs, or German (translated) dialog and German subs.
The script is often used as the base for subtitles. The script and screen can differ by a lot, If the meaning isn't sufficiently different they often don't get changed. Additionally, there is a guideline for subtitle size and speed and if the dialogue is going to exceed that they will usually opt for a more streamlined version of the words.
In the episode of The Simpsons that saw the death of Maud Flanders, one of the characters looks at the t-shirt that he's just received from the t-shirt cannon and comments humorlessly "a picture of a Ford urinating on a Chevrolet". The captioning has it the other way round. (Or maybe he says it with the Chevy peeing on the Ford and the caption says the opposite; it's been some years since I've seen the episode, and they don't actually show us the shirt.) The mismatch may have itself been a deliberate joke by the writers.
-
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
At the end of the day it all boils down to money, there is very little money in accurately providing them. So a '80% correct lets ship it' mentality is all to real. I don't see this ever changing either.
Maybe, but the costs have to be on the order of 0.1% of making a decent dub, or 1ppm of filming the whole thing to begin with.
As mentioned above, people even do it for free. Fuck, just give some random internet neckbeard a free Netflix subscription in exchange for providing accurate subtitles, and off you go.I just want them to fucking be correct (as in: identical to what is said), not a loose retelling of the story. It defeats the entire purpose of me watching with subs to begin with.
-
This post is deleted!
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
As mentioned above, people even do it for free. Fuck, just give some random internet neckbeard a free Netflix subscription in exchange for providing accurate subtitles, and off you go.
You might recall the fan subs from a few years ago that got sued into oblivion by the MPAA (and their ilk) for violating "copyright" by making subtitles for their content.
The studios simply don't care.
-
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
The studios simply don't care.
Yeah, and it's pissing me off. I got better content back when I still pirated.
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
Our dubs here are usually pretty good, not one Russian dude dubbing every single character.
One guy reading the lines is not dubbing, it's a separate thing ("lector"), far superior to dubbing.
Subtitles are the best of the three, obviously.
-
@MrL said in In other news today...:
it's a separate thing ("lector"), far superior to dubbing.
If you
live in an alternate dimensionhave never had good dubbing, maybe.
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
@MrL said in In other news today...:
it's a separate thing ("lector"), far superior to dubbing.
If you
live in an alternate dimensionhave never had good dubbing, maybe.Dubbing is "good" only if you don't care about the original creation. Listening to failed actors talking over real ones is a kind of laziness that I can't understand.
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
If you
live in an alternate dimensionhave never had good dubbing, maybe.These days, I find dubbing (yes, including german one) quite jarring. The speech and the rest of the content never quite matches up. Used to be less noticeable when I was regularly watching dubbed stuff, though.
For that reason alone, I typically prefer subs. But I rarely use subs for translation to languages that I understand anyway. (So: prefer English speech with English subs, German speech with German subs, ...). Other languages I don't really understand well enough to be able to tell that the subs are bad. They are usually good enough for the purpose of the following the movie / news item / ....
For movies that combine multiple languages, there's a pretty solid chance that the worst offender is the non-English audio rather than any of the subs. Actors not natively speaking e.g. Swedish trying to speak Swedish is the worst(tm).
The worst worst practice in TV is news, where the a translated voice track just goes over the original one, but with a small delay.
-
@MrL said in In other news today...:
Listening to failed actors talking over real ones is a kind of laziness that I can't understand.
Speaking a language other than English makes you a failed actor??
There seems to be an incredible non-sequitur there.What about bilingual people doing their own dubbing, does that make them Schrödinger-failed actors?
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
@MrL said in In other news today...:
Listening to failed actors talking over real ones is a kind of laziness that I can't understand.
Speaking a language other than English makes you a failed actor??
Mimicking other actors instead of playing your own roles makes you a failed actor.
Dubbers are cover bands of movie world.What about bilingual people doing their own dubbing, does that make them Schrödinger-failed actors?
What?
-
@topspin YMMV, but - at first glance - the amount of voice work available in a culture where dubbing is the norm is likely to greatly exceed available manpower, so even when you have a recognized actor doing voice work, it will typically be for individual, high-profile items (big ticket animations, for example).
Mass-produced voice work like dubs for TV, for example, isn't typically gonna be done by anyone good enough to have a career as a featured performer, because if they were good enough, they'd be too busy doing other things, and those doing the hiring care primarily about getting it done fast, cheap, and maybe good enough.
-
@MrL said in In other news today...:
@topspin said in In other news today...:
@MrL said in In other news today...:
Listening to failed actors talking over real ones is a kind of laziness that I can't understand.
Speaking a language other than English makes you a failed actor??
Mimicking other actors instead of playing your own roles makes you a failed actor.
Dubbers are cover bands of movie world.It's a different job. Do you call your translators "failed programmers", or your programmers "failed artists"?
What about bilingual people doing their own dubbing, does that make them Schrödinger-failed actors?
What?
Christoph Waltz did his own dubs for German and French in Inglourious Basterds. So does that make him simutaneously a real actor and a failed one?
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
It's a different job. Do you call your translators "failed programmers", or your programmers "failed artists"?
TDMSYR
What about bilingual people doing their own dubbing, does that make them Schrödinger-failed actors?
What?
Christoph Waltz did his own dubs for German and French in Inglourious Basterds. So does that make him simutaneously a real actor and a failed one?
Of course not. There are two Christopher Waltzes, real and failed one. Obviously.
-
@MrL said in In other news today...:
Obviously
I think you should've realized something at this point...
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
@MrL said in In other news today...:
Obviously
I think you should've realized something at this point...
That you are incapable of understanding analogies. Yes, that's clear for some time already.
-
In other news today, I get a demonstration of the retarded nature of the subs and dubs war right here, no news required!
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
What about bilingual people doing their own dubbing, does that make them Schrödinger-failed actors?
The actor who played Marseille in La Casa de Papel / Money Heist speaks 4 or 5 different languages, and he did his own dubbing for those languages (technically speaking not for the original Spanish, por supuesto).
-
@Zecc said in In other news today...:
@topspin said in In other news today...:
What about bilingual people doing their own dubbing, does that make them Schrödinger-failed actors?
The actor who played Marseille in La Casa de Papel / Money Heist speaks 4 or 5 different languages, and he did his own dubbing for those languages (technically speaking not for the original Spanish, por supuesto).
80% failed actor.
-
@Zecc said in In other news today...:
@antiquarian Like would ever adopt some else's measures.
They just have to convert the measures by a factor of 25.4, 2.2, 9/5, etc
-
@Mason_Wheeler said in In other news today...:
@Bulb said in In other news today...:
@izzion said in In other news today...:
rapeseed oil
.. what if it raped anybody
Oil from the seed of a plant called "rape," because language is weird. In America we tend to call it by the more mild term "canola oil."
What if the oil canola'd somebocy?
-
@Gribnit said in In other news today...:
@Lathun said in In other news today...:
Plus if they say something I don't understand because it is quiet or mumbled I can just read the subs.
This also helps when going a bit deaf.
Or when snacking, or using a modern TV where the speakers face backward and everything sounds muffled
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
@MrL said in In other news today...:
it's a separate thing ("lector"), far superior to dubbing.
If you
live in an alternate dimensionhave never had good dubbing, maybe.Over here generally only stuff targeted at kids gets dubbed, the rest (teens and up) gets subbed.
However, nowadays you can often pick your language for sub and if the original audio is English I tend to pick English audio with subs on English or English for hearing impaired, as I sometimes have trouble understanding the actors over the background noise.
-
Okay, back to science:
-
Well, back to a dumb phone for me:
-
@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
as I sometimes have trouble understanding the actors over the background noise.
One of my pet peeves about watching boxing or MMA is that the background of the crowd noise often overpowers the announcers.
-
-
@PleegWat that’s exactly what I do, and my original point of complaint. Using subs to improve listening comprehension doesn’t work if the subs have approximately zero correlation to the spoken dialog.
-
-
@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
Well, back to a dumb phone for me:
My what?
Something like this, I think:
-
@topspin said in In other news today...:
@PleegWat that’s exactly what I do, and my original point of complaint. Using subs to improve listening comprehension doesn’t work if the subs have approximately zero correlation to the spoken dialog.
The subs on Netflix and Amazon are very good IME.
The other thing you get is background stuff like what's on the radio in the background, which you'd almost certainly miss because it's so faint, but it's often kinda relevant, though not necessary, still interesting as a little detail.
-
@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
The other thing you get is background stuff like what's on the radio in the background, which you'd almost certainly miss because it's so faint, but it's often kinda relevant, though not necessary, still interesting as a little detail.
Back when my father first started really noticing his hearing loss we were watching Mansfield Park and had the subtitles on. The amount of chatter that is in the background of that movie is astounding. There is almost more background chatter than there is foreground.
-
Nooooooooooooooo!!!!
-
-
-
@Zecc said in In other news today...:
@topspin said in In other news today...:
What about bilingual people doing their own dubbing, does that make them Schrödinger-failed actors?
The actor who played Marseille in La Casa de Papel / Money Heist speaks 4 or 5 different languages, and he did his own dubbing for those languages (technically speaking not for the original Spanish, por supuesto).
Check out the Jackie Chan film "Chinese Zodiac" (alternate title "CZ 2012"). It's important to the plot to keep track of not only the content of what the characters are saying, but what language they're speaking and what languages the others present are established as understanding or not understanding.
There are a number of places where Jackie or someone else deliberately mistranslates someone else's dialogue for purposes of deception, and you need to know the correct translation as well as the wrong one to a level of detail that dubbing just wouldn't be able to handle.
-
@da-Doctah said in In other news today...:
It's important to the plot to keep track of not only the content of what the characters are saying, but what language they're speaking and what languages the others present are established as understanding or not understanding.
does not like this movie.